Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2346
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:33:00 -
[181] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Batelle wrote:Not a good analogy. An automatic transition turns a complex series of actions into a single button press (macro'd keystrokes), or it does that function entirely on its own (checking RPM, speed, and accelerator and making a decision to shift or not). Neither is comparable to ISboxer functionality. why not a good analogy? Whats the difference? Autotransmission changing gears in dependence of RPM (wich in turn depends from gas input) - isbox is clicking depending on users input somewhere else. This is a perfect analogy.
Isbox does not make decisions based on input (bot). Isbox does not take several consecutive timed actions based on a single input (macro). Isbox does not check for game conditions to change and alter its behavior accordingly the way a car might decide when to shift. Isbox is the equivalent of putting dowel rods on your fingers and typing from across the room, or like one of those Hollywood set/stunt cars where the actor pretends to be driving but the real driver is perched on an apparatus in the back. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
743
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:35:00 -
[182] - Quote
Tippia wrote:ISBoxer is a steering servo GÇö it doesn't drive the car; without input, you'll still end up in a ditch. See, you actually agree with me, we're saying the same! Autotransmission doesnt drive or do anything else on its own too, still it doesnt make it less of autotransmission. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20241
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:37:00 -
[183] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:See, you actually agree with me, we're saying the same! Nope. You see, a steering servo does not automate anything, least of all gear changes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
743
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:39:00 -
[184] - Quote
Batelle wrote: Isbox does not make decisions based on input (bot).
automation isnt defined by presence of any form of KI or anything like that.
Batelle wrote: Isbox does not take several consecutive timed actions based on a single input (macro).
it does.. it clicks 19 times somewhere, as I click once. This is why you use it, isnt it??
Batelle wrote: Isbox does not check for game conditions to change and alter its behavior accordingly the way a car might decide when to shift. Isbox is the equivalent of putting dowel rods on your fingers and typing from across the room, or like one of those Hollywood set/stunt cars where the actor pretends to be driving but the real driver is perched on an apparatus in the back. ofc you can try to hurfblurf and deny the obvious, or simply accept the fact CCP doesnt want to shoot their cash cow for obvious reason. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2346
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:40:00 -
[185] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote: Autotransmission doesnt drive or do anything else on its own too, still it doesnt make it less of autotransmission.
yes it does. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20241
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:44:00 -
[186] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Autotransmission doesnt drive or do anything else on its own too GǪso what you're saying is that you don't know what an automatic transmission does. Ok, well that clears up why you thought it was a good example to use.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2346
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:49:00 -
[187] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Batelle wrote: Isbox does not take several consecutive timed actions based on a single input (macro).
it does.. it clicks 19 times somewhere, as I click once. This is why you use it, isnt it?? Which is totally not the same thing at all. What's so hard about this concept?
Furthermore, you're making the flawed assumption that anyone who would ever support the use of ISboxer MUST use it themselves, and that no one who doesn't use ISboxer could EVER be okay with it. I don't use ISBoxer.
Robert Caldera wrote:Batelle wrote: Isbox does not check for game conditions to change and alter its behavior accordingly the way a car might decide when to shift. Isbox is the equivalent of putting dowel rods on your fingers and typing from across the room, or like one of those Hollywood set/stunt cars where the actor pretends to be driving but the real driver is perched on an apparatus in the back. ofc you can try to hurfblurf and deny the obvious, or simply accept the fact CCP doesnt want to shoot their cash cow for obvious reason.
If anyone's hurtblurfing its the people who say "looks like botting so it must be botting" in response to any serious discussion about what does or does not constitute "botting." These people also refuse to look up and read what CCP has posted on the subject. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
743
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:49:00 -
[188] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Autotransmission doesnt drive or do anything else on its own too GǪso what you're saying is that you don't know what an automatic transmission does. Ok, well that clears up why you thought it was a good example to use.
more smoke grenades, Tippia, we need more.
Batelle wrote: Which is totally not the same thing at all. What's so hard about this concept?
why its not the same? Definitin of automation agrees with me, what is your argument?
Batelle wrote: If anyone's hurtblurfing its the people who say "looks like botting so it must be botting" in response to any serious discussion about what does or does not constitute "botting."
while I am trying serious discussion, all replies I get to read "its not the same blablabla", "bad analogy" etc but no real argument. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:51:00 -
[189] - Quote
With an 11 man incursion fleet using ISboxer:
After 6 hours you can pay for all plex needed for the account. Then every hour after that you make 1.2bil!
That means every hour you run... You earn a machariel you can take into lowsec and lose.
Compare that to a single account that runs with an incursion community... After 6 hours he makes enough money for one plex, then he makes a tiny 100-150mil for every other hour he runs.
That is like a well fit battlecruiser.
Machariel vs battlecruiser. The advantage is obvious.
As you see, the time it takes to generate a plex for each account is the same, however the money earned after that is 11x more. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20245
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:53:00 -
[190] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:With an 11 man incursion fleet using ISboxer:
After 6 hours you can pay for all plex needed for the account. Then every hour after that you make 1.2bil! GǪsame as any other 11-man incursion fleet. After all, isboxer does not accelerate any gameplay.
Quote:Compare that to a single account that runs with an incursion community. No, let's compare it with an 11 man incursion fleet not using multiboxing. Otherwise, all you've shown is that 11 > 1, which is pretty pointless.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:54:00 -
[191] - Quote
I don't know how else to say it.
But you are a moron. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
744
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:57:00 -
[192] - Quote
Tippia wrote: After all, isboxer does not accelerate any gameplay.
it does, while 1 guy needs 20 minutes to clear a sanctum, an isboxed fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships will clear a sanctum in 2 minutes. Aside the fact a real player would hardly be able to control fleets bigger than 2-3 by himself, isbox saves the time to click all them manually -> accelerated gameplay. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2346
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:58:00 -
[193] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Hevymetal wrote: More accounts = More subs for CCP More subs for CCP = More profit for CCP More profit for CCP = More side projects to spend Eve profit on
Then the same argument could be used to legalize botting More accounts = More subs for CCP More subs for CCP = More profit for CCP More profit for CCP = More side projects to spend Eve profit on
But everyone agrees botting is bad.
Robert Caldera wrote:Aside the fact a real player would hardly be able to control fleets bigger than 2-3 by himself, isbox saves the time to click all them manually -> accelerated gameplay.
Uh, this is just flat out wrong. Like, how ******* new are you??? kind of wrong. Especially if you're talking about something easy like smartbombs. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:59:00 -
[194] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Hevymetal wrote: More accounts = More subs for CCP More subs for CCP = More profit for CCP More profit for CCP = More side projects to spend Eve profit on
Then the same argument could be used to legalize botting More accounts = More subs for CCP More subs for CCP = More profit for CCP More profit for CCP = More side projects to spend Eve profit on But everyone agrees botting is bad.
Not the botters. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20245
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:59:00 -
[195] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:it does, while 1 guy needs 20 minutes to clear a sanctum, an isboxed fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships will clear a sanctum in 2 minutes. GǪsame as any other fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships, since isboxer can't accelerate your gameplay. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:00:00 -
[196] - Quote
Batelle wrote:ISboxing miners are good because they allow a lot of mining needed to be done by a few dedicated people, meaning low prices for everyone else. This is only bad for miners that use only a few accounts. Bethan Le Troix wrote:The main problem with ISBoxer use is large mining fleets staying in one or two systems constantly and decimating the belts. Only if you insist on mining your own ore, identifying you as a miner who is sad about competition and low ore prices rather than a serious manufacturer.
The same argument can be made for botting.
"Botting miners are good because they mean low prices for everyone else."
Yet we all know that is not the case, nor is it the case with isboxer. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2346
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:00:00 -
[197] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote: Not the botters.
Find me a post where a botter suggested botting should be allowed. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
744
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:01:00 -
[198] - Quote
Tippia wrote:same as any other fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships, since isboxer can't accelerate your gameplay. it does as I pointed out in my previous posting. It eliminates the huge amount of time switching between clients and doing all the clicking by yourself. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14276
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:03:00 -
[199] - Quote
IIRC, the last time this subject came up and attracted CCP comment, the ruling was that ISboxer was legitimate, although I admit I can't find it. This was a couple of years ago. Does anyone with better goggle-fu than me have the link?
I won't deny that there are implications of ISboxer that make me deeply uneasy.
On the other hand, it's difficult to penalise your customers for using a program that you have publically affirmed is allowed, and which does at least obey the letter of the law by having the player directly and immediately control the actions of every account.
My preferred long term solution would be for CCP to make as much of EVE's gameplay as possible to be more challenging and unpredictable, and less about grinding and more about skill, thus doing an end run around the issue by making groups of ISboxed characters much less useful.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20245
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:03:00 -
[200] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:it does as I pointed out in my previous posting. You didn't demonstrate any acceleration of gameplay.
Let's make it simple, just for you: how does a 5-man fleet earning as much as a 5-man fleet does constitute earning more than a 5-man fleet does?
I understand that the syntax of that question might be a bit strange (it borders on buffalo buffalo buffalo), but just read through it a couple of times and I'm sure you'll get it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
94
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:03:00 -
[201] - Quote
Some of our corp members are trying isboxer and i assure you its not that simple. Its pretty funny when they come back with tails of killing their own ships, or trying to spider tank tengu's.
If its such a win, with plexing accounts to boot. Just use it yourself already. |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:04:00 -
[202] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
After all, isboxer does not accelerate any gameplay.
Define what you mean when you say it does not accelerate game play. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2347
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote: The same argument can be made for botting.
"Botting miners are good because they mean low prices for everyone else."
Yet we all know that is not the case, nor is it the case with isboxer.
True... but if you ban the botters they stop mining. If you got rid of isbox with a magic wand, you would still see giant multiboxed mining fleets.
Robert Caldera wrote:Tippia wrote:same as any other fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships, since isboxer can't accelerate your gameplay. it does as I pointed out in my previous posting. It eliminates the huge amount of time switching between clients and doing all the clicking by yourself.
except for the "huge amount of clicking." You picked a really really bad example of something that requires isboxer to do effectively. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:04:00 -
[204] - Quote
Batelle wrote:LordOfDespair wrote: Not the botters.
Find me a post where a botter suggested botting should be allowed.
Trust me, if ISboxer was banned (like it should be), nobody would be trying to defend it either. |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:05:00 -
[205] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote: The same argument can be made for botting.
"Botting miners are good because they mean low prices for everyone else."
Yet we all know that is not the case, nor is it the case with isboxer.
True... but if you ban the botters they stop mining. If you got rid of isbox with a magic wand, you would still see giant multiboxed mining fleets. Robert Caldera wrote:Tippia wrote:same as any other fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships, since isboxer can't accelerate your gameplay. it does as I pointed out in my previous posting. It eliminates the huge amount of time switching between clients and doing all the clicking by yourself. except for the "huge amount of clicking." You picked a really really bad example of something that requires isboxer to do effectively.
I would argue that many of the giant multi boxed mining fleets would disappear. 20 or 40 mining characters without software to send the clicks to all of the accounts at once? Yeah they may try, they would soon tire of it. 40 accounts? Forget it. |
Dominic karin
Trojan Legion Fidelas Constans
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:06:00 -
[206] - Quote
YAY! This thread again. Neat.
*popcorn as the arguments rage on*
|
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:07:00 -
[207] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Some of our corp members are trying isboxer and i assure you its not that simple. Its pretty funny when they come back with tails of killing their own ships, or trying to spider tank tengu's.
If its such a win, with plexing accounts to boot. Just use it yourself already.
A difficult to use bot is still a bot. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2347
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:09:00 -
[208] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Batelle wrote:LordOfDespair wrote: Not the botters.
Find me a post where a botter suggested botting should be allowed. Trust me, if ISboxer was banned (like it should be), nobody would be trying to defend it either.
Sure it would, because you would have lots of players still multiboxing. Because there's almost nothing that requires ISbox, as ISBox doesn't really allow you to do anything you couldn't already do. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20245
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:09:00 -
[209] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Define what you mean when you say it does not accelerate game play. I mean what it says in the EULA: the GÇ£acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.GÇ¥
It is pretty much impossible for multiboxig, or any other method that relies on 1:1 input, to do that barring outright exploitation of bugs (in which case the multiboxing method used is irrelevant anyway). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 18:10:00 -
[210] - Quote
Batelle wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Batelle wrote:LordOfDespair wrote: Not the botters.
Find me a post where a botter suggested botting should be allowed. Trust me, if ISboxer was banned (like it should be), nobody would be trying to defend it either. Sure it would, because you would have lots of players still multiboxing. Because there's almost nothing that requires ISbox, as ISBox doesn't really allow you to do anything you couldn't already do.
Go ahead and multibox a 20 man incursion fleet (successfully) without ISbox.
Yeah, thought so. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |