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ShadowandLight
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
254
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Posted - 2014.03.24 18:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Poll on proposed changes
As noted here, CCP is looking into changing the way WH's are detected in systems.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4378637#post4378637
The short version is they are looking into adding a "delay" so that people in a WH would not see the new incoming WH for x amount of time. The proposal and discussion is fluid.
I am curious the communities overall opinion on the matter, since there is a not a 2 way voting system available on the forums (only votes in the affirmative are allowed) so I created a poll on the matter.
There are only 5 questions, 2 of which I added that are outside the current proposed mechanic.
-A- Space Rental Program https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4163928#post4163928 |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
99
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Posted - 2014.03.24 18:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
The last 2 question clearly show that you never ever been in a wormhole fight. Just an other null sec dude trying to uterly destroy w-space. Try answering this : We want no local in null sec and to be able to turn off the gates at will. YES or YES? |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
643
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Posted - 2014.03.24 20:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Poll on proposed changesAs noted here, CCP is looking into changing the way WH's are detected in systems. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4378637#post4378637The short version is they are looking into adding a "delay" so that people in a WH would not see the new incoming WH for x amount of time. The proposal and discussion is fluid. I am curious the communities overall opinion on the matter, since there is a not a 2 way voting system available on the forums (only votes in the affirmative are allowed) so I created a poll on the matter. There are only 5 questions, 2 of which I added that are outside the current proposed mechanic.
Oh man, the discussion is already heated enough without outside parties just coming in and throwing crap from their agenda into the mix. |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3136
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Posted - 2014.03.24 20:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
this change is a swing too far in the other direction. overlay needs a delay, probes do not. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1128
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
466
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Posted - 2014.03.25 00:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this)
If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously.
Unless of course the anoms can be pinned with a single sweep of any probe, then ok.
But can you imagine hitting say a c5 black hole with 40 anoms and 30 sigs in it?
Any sane person would go "**** this. Roll the chain" |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3149
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Posted - 2014.03.25 01:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
466
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Posted - 2014.03.25 01:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. Well ok then. Nvm. Somehow I was under the impression that the roughly tripling the number of sigs that need to be scanned down to make sure you accounted for all the WH's during mapping would go over like a sack of bricks.
More work for scanners, makes ragerolling less efficient due to needing to deploy probes to catch even people running anoms, makes it harder and longer to map out a chain to find targets in general.
Adds a layer of safety to site runners since you have to pin every target.
I do agree that the scanner should be delayed without probes, and ore sites re-added to the sigs list. I specifically meant the "making all anoms sigs" bit, though I didn't phrase it well. |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1128
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Posted - 2014.03.25 02:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Adds a layer of safety to site runners since you have to pin every target.
The extra safety is an illusion. No one is perfect with d-scan and if you're any good at probing, you only need one ping to get a warp-in. The extra layer of security actually makes people less safe by making them do stupid things... like mining in a wormhole.
If people aren't in the ore sites, you can't kill them in the ore sites. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
507
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Posted - 2014.03.25 02:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Personal input only here: Sigs should only show up if you wack out probes and find them. Wormholes where designed to be mysterious and unknown. I for one agree that all sigs should be scannable rather than warp too...
In regards to delayed inbounds: No, I don't agree that an inbound wormhole cannot be found for x amount of time. If you have probes out you should be able to pick up a new sig straight off. It's how modern day scanning works in the real world, if something's there it can be picked up the moment it appears. Not a minute or x amount of time later.
If an inbound wormhole appears and is delayed via probe scan and the inbound fleet hold their cloak for a whole minute. That gives the inbound fleet a whole minute (or however long) to find and execute a plan. So basically other people coming into your home can get a big drop on you in your home hole.
Delay it on the overlay by all means, but if someone has probes out then they should be able to find it instantly. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
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Tsalaroth
BRG Corp Ocularis Inferno
26
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points.
You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
158
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bring back the original old school scanning system. Bring it back now! |
Alundil
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
438
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tsalaroth wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month? Methinks you have no idea. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1294
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tsalaroth wrote:Jack Miton wrote: as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points.
You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month?
This guy lol! No trolling please |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3169
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. Well ok then. Nvm. Somehow I was under the impression that the roughly tripling the number of sigs that need to be scanned down to make sure you accounted for all the WH's during mapping would go over like a sack of bricks. More work for scanners, makes ragerolling less efficient due to needing to deploy probes to catch even people running anoms, makes it harder and longer to map out a chain to find targets in general. Adds a layer of safety to site runners since you have to pin every target. I do agree that the scanner should be delayed without probes, and ore sites re-added to the sigs list. I specifically meant the "making all anoms sigs" bit, though I didn't phrase it well. you never needed probes to detect anoms. what is, system scanner. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3169
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tsalaroth wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month? not that it really matters but i'm currently at 459 sigs scanned, 192 WHs mapped for March. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Key Dett
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
43
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tsalaroth wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month?
I think we both know you would pos up the second you saw us in your wormhole . |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
282
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tsalaroth wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month?
I would be wary of speaking to SKY in such a way. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO! (Terms and conditions apply.)
http://imgur.com/yEQqAeb |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
794
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tsalaroth wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Anhenka wrote:Paikis wrote:1. Overlay shouldn't be delayed, so much as it should ONLY update when you use probes. 2. ALL sites in wormholes should require probes (yes, I include anoms AND sigs in this) If you ever voice that idea to the people that do the majority of the scanning in your corp, they will beat you with shovels quite vigorously. as the current top monthly scanner in his corp, i fully support his points. You guys are nullbears? What's that? 30 scans in a month?
People living in glass houses should be very careful when throwing stones... Sky Fighters - WH Space Mercs. -áFor more details https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=286708&find=unread
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Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1130
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:People living in glass houses should be very careful when throwing stones...
They should also get changed in the basement. Just saying. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5068
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Posted - 2014.03.26 06:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Well ok then. Nvm. Somehow I was under the impression that the roughly tripling the number of sigs that need to be scanned down to make sure you accounted for all the WH's during mapping would go over like a sack of bricks.
More work for scanners, makes ragerolling less efficient due to needing to deploy probes to catch even people running anoms, makes it harder and longer to map out a chain to find targets in general.
Look at it this way (hypothetical example): I am specialised at probing down the signatures in our wormhole space. I have the right ship, modules and implants to make probing a breeze. Out of the 90 sigs in our hole, I can scan 30 of them to 100% on the first round, then the rest in about a dozen attempts.
The person invading our hole isn't a specialised scanner. E has a mixture of combat and probing implants, is flying an Arazu which is not scanning oriented, and is relying on trained skills and sister's probe & launcher to find targets.
The harder it is for the intruder to probe us down (i.e.: the longer their probes have to stay in space) the happier I am.
If the intruder must probe to find targets (because they can't simply warp to the first anomaly they find), the defender has the advantage: "Probes on scan! Disengage!" Then within 30 seconds our entire fleet is safely behind the POS shield, guns are manned, and the invaders have to find other targets.
This applies whether or not the K162 signature is visible. Thus my preference would be for CCP to simply remove the K162 mechanic. One less piece of code to maintain.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Castor Troyy
You Can't Fool Owls Let It Bleed
83
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:People living in glass houses should be very careful when throwing stones... They should also get changed in the basement. Just saying.
I lawled
I also understand Mara's logic in the post about skilled scanners in...sub c5 space...but I dont think much would change in higher class...if wrecks and caps are on scan and a fleet is ready...the combats will come out...which currently for example..caps/wrecks on scan...fleet ready ...the combats come out....it just boils down to response time...which again...is how it is now...
Imho...im afraid that if scanning takes more effort...it would be even less popular...and would result in less scouts which equals less fights
Im indifferent either way to having to scan everything...having to not scan anoms...mybiggest concern is the potential delays change...
I dont think most wh folks care about a sensor overlay delay I for one do not think delays, when u are actively scanning is a good thing |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
553
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Posted - 2014.03.27 20:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:[quote=Tsalaroth][quote=Jack Miton] not that it really matters but i'm currently at 459 sigs scanned, 192 WHs mapped for March.
190 wormholes checked for targets and not a single juicy tengu clearly means Bob is dead or doesn't love you :( "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
Alundil
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
442
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Jack Miton wrote:[quote=Tsalaroth][quote=Jack Miton] not that it really matters but i'm currently at 459 sigs scanned, 192 WHs mapped for March. 190 wormholes checked for targets and not a single juicy tengu clearly means Bob is dead or doesn't love you :( He told us he's paid up for a week or so, he gave us a Rorqual. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Patient Zero1
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Ragnarok.
24
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Posted - 2014.03.29 07:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:this change is a swing too far in the other direction. overlay needs a delay, probes do not.
+1 |
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