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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 05:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Wardecs were created as a means of establishing legal fighting in highsec. Clearly, it was always intended that there be a purpose behind starting a confrontation with someone who is in highsec. Generally, that reason would have some strategic significance behind it, but they can be started for basically any reason. I feel they are being abused by mercs and griefers who have made highsec their home and simply choose to pick on people weaker than themselves. It is rare for mercs to fight each other, making it difficult to even the playing field. That said,I try to separate mercs and griefers, because I believe they are very different from one another. Many mercs are respectable, but some mercs should really fall under the category of griefer.
I feel some simple changes to wardecs would curb abuse with minimal disruption to the vast majority of wardecs: Increase the cost of wardecs that are renewed each week so that wars cannot go on in perpetuity. (If both parties want a perpetual war, they need simply set the war to mutual.) When a wardec does end, restrict the aggressor from redeclaring war on the defending party for a specified period of time in order to prevent them from getting around the first point. Increase the cost of wardecs based on how many active wars an aggressor corp has initiated. (The ones doing the bullying often have hundreds going at any given time.) I have been part of the merc community in two separate alliances. The first was honorable and made up of people I would come to call my friends, the second was not. In the case of the latter, the executor declared war on so many corps that he cleaned out the corp coffers and sent out a mail asking for donations to the corp so he could declare even more. This is what makes me feel the above would be helpful. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3363
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Posted - 2014.03.25 05:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
And then we get to the part where being the defender is entirely voluntary, because you can just dec dodge. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 05:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not at all. If it costs more to wardec each target exponentially you wouldn't get corps with 46-75 war decs every week. You would actually start seeing true war dec mechanics the way they were intended, and not just griefer corps war deccing people who they see in trade hubs. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3363
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Posted - 2014.03.25 05:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Not at all. If it costs more to wardec each target exponentially you wouldn't get corps with 46-75 war decs every week. You would actually start seeing true war dec mechanics the way they were intended, and not just griefer corps war deccing people who they see in trade hubs.
The point remains that, as the defender in a wardec, it is completely voluntary to participate.
Until that is fixed, you don't get to talk about nerfing wardecs. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3363
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Posted - 2014.03.25 05:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh, and as for "intended":
They were intended to allow you to attack someone without the interference of CONCORD, for a fee, with 24 hours notice.
That's it. Anything else is just you projecting your thoughts onto the developers, which is an entirely illegitimate argument. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Your thoughts are found to be illegitimate. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3363
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Your thoughts are found to be illegitimate.
Ran out of anything resembling a real argument already? Yeesh, L2Stamina. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
446
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Your thoughts are found to be illegitimate.
Its already possible to evade wardecs. Stay docked up, Leave corp. So what is your point? If people don't want to PVP they won't, and there is no mechanic in this game that can or will force people to do that.
e: quoted wrong person |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
798
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you read the Devblog on wardecs, creating a career path for specific merc corps was one of the guidelines:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/changes-to-war-mechanics
Working as intended as there doesn't appear to have been a deeper core reason for wars.
Its a way to create conflict and for specific wardec corps to be able to declare war.
It's hard in that case to claim that Corps are abusing the system, as the system was designed exactly for the way it is being used. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
221
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anything else is just you projecting your thoughts onto the developers, which is an entirely illegitimate argument.
Then what the hell is the purpose of the forums if not to DISCUSS the impact of game policies and ways one thinks they should be hanged? There is exactly zero authority in what, if anything, was intended by developers at the time of creation. So much has been changed since then. If that did carry any weight then why have ANY changes been made? |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3363
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anything else is just you projecting your thoughts onto the developers, which is an entirely illegitimate argument. Then what the hell is the purpose of the forums if not to DISCUSS the impact of game policies and ways one thinks they should be hanged? There is exactly zero authority in what, if anything, was intended by developers at the time of creation. So much has been changed since then. If that did carry any weight then why have ANY changes been made?
Should have read the post above yours, firstly.
Secondly, the OP doesn't get to spout off "intended use of wardecs" or any of that nonsense. It's totally dishonest to do so. If he wants them changed then he posted on the wrong forum, by the way. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
52
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Posted - 2014.03.25 06:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote: Clearly, it was always intended that there be a purpose behind starting a confrontation with someone who is in highsec.
Citation needed.
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Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
95
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Posted - 2014.03.25 07:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Not at all. If it costs more to wardec each target exponentially you wouldn't get corps with 46-75 war decs every week.
You have no idea much ISK some people an organisations have, do you? Besides, I'd rather be decced by the cheap guys than have every war limited to being fought between just the ultra-rich ultra-resourced corps and their selected targets du jour.
o/ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2404
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 08:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Clearly, it was always intended that there be a purpose behind starting a confrontation with someone who is in highsec.
Um... no? I start fights all the time because I CAN. I don't need a purpose other than it amuses me.
Amund Aldent wrote: Generally, that reason would have some strategic significance behind it, but they can be started for basically any reason..... Many mercs are respectable, but some mercs should really fall under the category of griefer.
What constitutes griefing (sic) is clearly defined already and has nothing to do with Wardecs.
Amund Aldent wrote:I feel some simple changes to wardecs would curb abuse
Please define abuse. Ive been the recipient and the instigator of numerous Wardecs in my time and I cannot say I have seen anything that should qualify as abuse in my opinion, so I'd like to know what you mean by this.
Amund Aldent wrote:Increase the cost of wardecs based on how many active wars an aggressor corp has initiated. (The ones doing the bullying often have hundreds going at any given time.)
How do you protract "hundreds" of wars at one time? What's the problem with the targets allying if they are so peeved?
Amund Aldent wrote:I have been part of the merc community in two separate alliances. The first was honorable
Oh. I see.
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Don Purple
Caldari State
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 08:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Make wars cost more, then make characters in war unable to drop corp or disband without permission from the aggressor.
Sounds fair?
If you don't want to be legal targets in a war don't be in an organization that is at war. I am just here to snuggle. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20248
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Posted - 2014.03.25 08:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Clearly, it was always intended that there be a purpose behind starting a confrontation with someone who is in highsec. That's not particularly clear at all. And even if it wereGǪ
Quote:I feel they are being abused by mercs and griefers who have made highsec their home and simply choose to pick on people weaker than themselves. GǪit sounds like there's a purpose behind starting those confrontations.
As for the actual idea, nah. Wardec costs need to go down. The cost increase was excessive. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
512
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:Make wars cost more, then make characters in war unable to drop corp or disband without permission from the aggressor.
Sounds fair?
If you don't want to be legal targets in a war don't be in an organization that is at war.
um....so I could create a 1 man corp, continue to never un dock since this is a forum alt, and perpetually wardec corps like goonswarm, RvB or EVEUni and none of their players could ever leave without my permission?
I think I would be willing to buy PLEX's to fund wardecs if this were possible....
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3366
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Posted - 2014.03.25 09:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Klymer wrote:Don Purple wrote:Make wars cost more, then make characters in war unable to drop corp or disband without permission from the aggressor.
Sounds fair?
If you don't want to be legal targets in a war don't be in an organization that is at war. um....so I could create a 1 man corp, continue to never un dock since this is a forum alt, and perpetually wardec corps like goonswarm, RvB or EVEUni and none of their players could ever leave without my permission? I think I would be willing to buy PLEX's to fund wardecs if this were possible....
Unfamiliar with satire, I see. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Xara
Northstar Legion
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 10:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Wardecs are fine as they are, aside from the corp jumping thing, I'd propose making anyone who jumps corps to avoid a dec have to pay the dec'er a % of their war cost based on the number of people in the target corp.
So if I wardec a 10 man corp, costing me 50 mill isk, each person that leaves that corp must pay me 5 mill isk.
The reason is I hate dec'ing a corp that then bails to a new corp, then a new corp etc etc. Especially if I have a valid reason to have dec'd them in the first place, not that I usually do :)
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
175
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have a brilliant idea which is to counter wardecks someone decs you but you could pay up an equal amount to big C to keep it from happening.
Wow I think I just created a new isk sink and this would also make those under wardec to think about it if they actually should man up or pay up when their missioning isk goes to keeping off the wardec. Oh and putting a payment for a dec would be kept the same as it is now but you could also pay extra (up front) to squeeze that carebear wallet with your own when you deck.
Brilliant, no ?
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Shadowlightt
Apex Innovations
64
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
I agree fix it ccp |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
663
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 15:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wars have already had a hit with the nerf bat, fees were already greatly increased while also allowing unlimited allies to offer assistance to the defender....
What is actually needed is closing of the existing exploit used to duck wars entirely, where people can just drop corp to evade a war entirely. Wars are 100% consensual today with this exploit, it must be closed.
A one-week stasis period should be immediately implemented, to anyone dropping corp with an active or pending war dec. Either that, or any wars should follow a player to their new corp (while blocked from joining an NPC corp to strip it).
Either way, the current exploit to duck wars should be immediately closed.
F
p.s. I almost forgot, +1 added to the Kill-It-Forward queue for Amund Aldent's heresy against HTFU. Would you like to know more? |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
338
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 15:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:Wardecs were created as a means of establishing legal fighting in highsec. Clearly, it was always intended that there be a purpose behind starting a confrontation with someone who is in highsec. Generally, that reason would have some strategic significance behind it, but they can be started for basically any reason. I feel they are being abused by mercs and griefers who have made highsec their home and simply choose to pick on people weaker than themselves. It is rare for mercs to fight each other, making it difficult to even the playing field. That said,I try to separate mercs and griefers, because I believe they are very different from one another. Many mercs are respectable, but some mercs should really fall under the category of griefer.
I feel some simple changes to wardecs would curb abuse with minimal disruption to the vast majority of wardecs: Increase the cost of wardecs that are renewed each week so that wars cannot go on in perpetuity. (If both parties want a perpetual war, they need simply set the war to mutual.)
When a wardec does end, restrict the aggressor from redeclaring war on the defending party for a specified period of time in order to prevent them from getting around the first point.
Increase the cost of wardecs based on how many active wars an aggressor corp has initiated. (The ones doing the bullying often have hundreds going at any given time.)
I have been part of the merc community in two separate alliances. The first was honorable and made up of people I would come to call my friends, the second was not. In the case of the latter, the executor declared war on so many corps that he cleaned out the corp coffers and sent out a mail asking for donations to the corp so he could declare even more. This is what makes me feel the above would be helpful.
Corps like marmite war deccing everyone they think they can get kills from is neither abuse nor does it "serve no purpose". The war dec mechanics give these corps a reason to exist and provides them with the income source to sustain themselves, I would think it's working entirely as intended. Killing hi seccers solely for ISK is an entirely valid career path |
Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: What is actually needed is closing of the existing exploit used to duck wars entirely, where people can just drop corp to evade a war entirely. Wars are 100% consensual today with this exploit, it must be closed.
A one-week stasis period should be immediately implemented, to anyone dropping corp with an active or pending war dec. Either that, or any wars should follow a player to their new corp (while blocked from joining an NPC corp to strip it)..
Catch up with the times. This is already implemented.
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Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
2
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Posted - 2014.03.25 16:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:Amund Aldent wrote:Wardecs were created as a means of establishing legal fighting in highsec. Clearly, it was always intended that there be a purpose behind starting a confrontation with someone who is in highsec. Generally, that reason would have some strategic significance behind it, but they can be started for basically any reason. I feel they are being abused by mercs and griefers who have made highsec their home and simply choose to pick on people weaker than themselves. It is rare for mercs to fight each other, making it difficult to even the playing field. That said,I try to separate mercs and griefers, because I believe they are very different from one another. Many mercs are respectable, but some mercs should really fall under the category of griefer.
I feel some simple changes to wardecs would curb abuse with minimal disruption to the vast majority of wardecs: Increase the cost of wardecs that are renewed each week so that wars cannot go on in perpetuity. (If both parties want a perpetual war, they need simply set the war to mutual.)
When a wardec does end, restrict the aggressor from redeclaring war on the defending party for a specified period of time in order to prevent them from getting around the first point.
Increase the cost of wardecs based on how many active wars an aggressor corp has initiated. (The ones doing the bullying often have hundreds going at any given time.)
I have been part of the merc community in two separate alliances. The first was honorable and made up of people I would come to call my friends, the second was not. In the case of the latter, the executor declared war on so many corps that he cleaned out the corp coffers and sent out a mail asking for donations to the corp so he could declare even more. This is what makes me feel the above would be helpful. Corps like marmite war deccing everyone they think they can get kills from is neither abuse nor does it "serve no purpose". The war dec mechanics give these corps a reason to exist and provides them with the income source to sustain themselves, I would think it's working entirely as intended. Killing hi seccers solely for ISK is an entirely valid career path
You mean deccing hundreds of corps every week is a valid way to abuse the system right? When I hear war declarations were invented to give two corps with grievances the ability to settle it, I don't think it should read to the world as a way for griefers and meretards to declare war against 50-100 targets a week while they receive very little if no kills at all while they camp a trade hub waiting whatever they can find that has a white star with a red background.
If you want to grief people, then go grief the miners / industrialists in the newbie areas. There is also the ever present way to flip cans, mobile tractor units, start limited engagements with people and just generally be a **** without having to start 50-100 wars a week that you have almost no intention of fighting unless you happen stance to find the war target in the same system as you.
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
277
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Did not read all... but STORY TIME!!!
Along time ago... around I think Red Moon Rising, there was an alliance formed. This alliance was called "The Privateer Alliance" and lots of war decs were had. They would wardec everyone, and camp the hubs and blow up lots of ships. And money rained and kills rained on them, and the gods smiled at the destruction they wrecked. But the carebears, oh how they wept, and some of the large alliances cried foul, so the gods looked at them and answered the request for change.
Before this time, it cost a whopping 50m a week to war dec. That's it. if you had 5b isk you could war dec 100 entities a week. And if you are poping frighters in jita, getting 5b is not too difficult.
Then behold, CCP said enough, and did what was then called the privateer nerf. They changed it so war dec cost will escalate depending on the number of corps you have war dec'd. Thus nerfing privateers business model. So they shifter to just cycling there decs each week, and eventually all alliances in eve we war deced for a week.
So ccp already fixed war cost, ages ago. It escalates, and if you get allies, that will increase the war dec cost even more the next week.
So.. this idea is already taken of, and not needed. Thus is terrible. |
Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Did not read all... but STORY TIME!!!
Along time ago... around I think Red Moon Rising, there was an alliance formed. This alliance was called "The Privateer Alliance" and lots of war decs were had. They would wardec everyone, and camp the hubs and blow up lots of ships. And money rained and kills rained on them, and the gods smiled at the destruction they wrecked. But the carebears, oh how they wept, and some of the large alliances cried foul, so the gods looked at them and answered the request for change.
Before this time, it cost a whopping 50m a week to war dec. That's it. if you had 5b isk you could war dec 100 entities a week. And if you are poping frighters in jita, getting 5b is not too difficult.
Then behold, CCP said enough, and did what was then called the privateer nerf. They changed it so war dec cost will escalate depending on the number of corps you have war dec'd. Thus nerfing privateers business model. So they shifter to just cycling there decs each week, and eventually all alliances in eve we war deced for a week.
So ccp already fixed war cost, ages ago. It escalates, and if you get allies, that will increase the war dec cost even more the next week.
So.. this idea is already taken of, and not needed. Thus is terrible.
Actually your story is a bit off. They made the war dec cost rise depending on the amount of people in the corp, not the amount of corps you war decced. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
277
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
redacted, i'm rambling |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
277
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Amund Aldent wrote:DaReaper wrote:Did not read all... but STORY TIME!!!
Along time ago... around I think Red Moon Rising, there was an alliance formed. This alliance was called "The Privateer Alliance" and lots of war decs were had. They would wardec everyone, and camp the hubs and blow up lots of ships. And money rained and kills rained on them, and the gods smiled at the destruction they wrecked. But the carebears, oh how they wept, and some of the large alliances cried foul, so the gods looked at them and answered the request for change.
Before this time, it cost a whopping 50m a week to war dec. That's it. if you had 5b isk you could war dec 100 entities a week. And if you are poping frighters in jita, getting 5b is not too difficult.
Then behold, CCP said enough, and did what was then called the privateer nerf. They changed it so war dec cost will escalate depending on the number of corps you have war dec'd. Thus nerfing privateers business model. So they shifter to just cycling there decs each week, and eventually all alliances in eve we war deced for a week.
So ccp already fixed war cost, ages ago. It escalates, and if you get allies, that will increase the war dec cost even more the next week.
So.. this idea is already taken of, and not needed. Thus is terrible. Actually your story is a bit off. They made the war dec cost rise depending on the amount of people in the corp, not the amount of corps you war decced.
i'm old my memory is not what it used to be, and 10 years of eve tends to blur ;) |
Amund Aldent
Ore 4 You
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
I commend your story for at least being more entertaining the rest of the posters here. Most of it has been the trolls coming to feed. I do welcome general discussion on the issue though of a mature and not adolescent nature. |
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