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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
611
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:34:00 -
[4021] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:embrel wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that
So, you think that basically as long as somewhere somebody does have an empty belly all other perceived problems are irrelevant? YES. Like I said, crying about "bullying" between two consenting adults in a videogame is a textbook first world problem. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you're really so concerned with the plight of humanity.
Way to lower the bar, really, really low.
"First world problems" is a phrase invented by rich people who don't want to have to obey laws. No, really.
Soon ALL problems will be easily dismissed, anyone not starving to death in agony will be a whiner, who is "entitled".
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:35:00 -
[4022] - Quote
Simyaldee wrote:The victim should be held accountable for his homophobic and racial slurs, especially if Erotica 1 is held responsible for his actions I agree, I hate that this man issued threats, and slurs. But he only said these under duress, and should receive a punishment appropriate for a man who was deliberately provoked into such actions.
Erotica 1's actions were not made under duress, they were unprovoked, unnecessary and coached to deliver the maximum amount of humiliation possible. And unlike the victim, who might show remorse for his words if he was asked, Erotica 1 apparently see's nothing wrong at all with his actions.
If someone kills someone deliberately, with pre-meditation and no sufficient cause its called Murder, or Murder One. If a victim of abuse lashes out at there abuser, whether its pre-meditated or not, the prosecuter will almost always give them a lighter charge.
If we ban Erotica 1 then where do we draw the line? Should we just ban all Gankers, Scammers, Griefers, etc. The line is pretty obvious. When the actions are of sufficient duration and scope to be defined as harassment, and when the sole and only reason for the action is to harass another player. Erotica 1 sole purpose was to harass and humiliate the victim, and he did so after the scam was already completed. This is not about scams, this is about Harassment. Not in-game Harassment such as Target specific Ganking or Hell camping a station which involves in game mechanics for the main purpose of in game consequences.
But Harassing a man just to see how much he can take, how much you can make him do, and promising him something in return if he just endures the abuse for a tiny bit longer.
God that's a lot of words. Will be waiting for intelligent counter-arguments, will probably be waiting forever.
Agree with most of what is stated here. To deal with the Scammers and griefers i believe a policy of only allowing the use in-game tools and a stronger EULA and TOS is necessary .
The victim comments should be punished but no where near the same level as erotica1 . Yes what he said was Racist , but also under pressure (duress) , as such greater lenancy towards his actions should be given by CCP .
Personally i would say Perma ban erotica1 and all accounts this individual player has. The victim should receive a 48hr ban to cool off, but nothing more as he was under psychological pressure (duress) at the time of the commentary . |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3741
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:36:00 -
[4023] - Quote
Dieterlin wrote:Danalee wrote:Last one James Amril-Kesh wrote:"It's funny and he deserved it because he was stupid. Also because it was funny." The way you take this personal pleasure in how the victim was treated makes you a creep to my eyes. No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?) Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting. He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real. You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be. D. OUT. (I promise ) Except there clearly *was* harm, what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.
What "harm"? Being laughed at? In that case my alliance mates have some stuff to answer for. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
272
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:37:00 -
[4024] - Quote
Prie Mary wrote:Navi Annages wrote: It's kinda like holding a deck of cards right? Life threats vs ban? Which looks worse? Maybe a judge would decide wisely what happens to racist vulgar individuals.
Somewhere along the lines you have blurred the lines between the victim and predator. E1 and his accomplices set out to cause emotional harm to another human being - premeditated if you will. They used calculated manipulation and tactics to accomplish this. After what was is 2 hours, the victim snapped and lashed out in a emotional manner. I don't agree with what was said but at the end of the day it was E1 who woke up that morning with the intention to cause harm (emotional) to another human being, and are in the wrong. Who hasn't said something they didn't really mean in the height of a argument? If you beat an animal until it defends itself and bites you, who is in the wrong?
:OOOOOOOOOOOOO
PUT THAT ANIMAL DOWN!
(funnily enough in this day and age it is true) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3741
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:37:00 -
[4025] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:embrel wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that
So, you think that basically as long as somewhere somebody does have an empty belly all other perceived problems are irrelevant? YES. Like I said, crying about "bullying" between two consenting adults in a videogame is a textbook first world problem. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you're really so concerned with the plight of humanity. Way to lower the bar, really, really low. "First world problems" is a phrase invented by rich people who don't want to have to obey laws. No, really. Soon ALL problems will be easily dismissed, anyone not starving to death in agony will be a whiner, who is "entitled".
Translation:
"My heart bleeds, but I'd rather not get out of my chair so I'm complaining about stuff on the internet." Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1179
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:37:00 -
[4026] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote: He's a sadistic & really creepy person.
He probably is. What i wonder is in what warped world is creepy and sadistic worse than Racist and willing to Threaten someone's life and family. Nevermind the part where he & several other people did their best over two hours to illicit this exact response. You seem to be justifying the act with the result, which was clearly intended. Which doesn't matter because the grown man consented to it and did not disconnect. Erotica could have had him in TS for 10 hours, or 100. There is no excuse AT ALL for threating to do bodily harm to a man, and his family and to racially abuse people.
He took advantage of someone, and you can't understand that person got upset and angry.... welcome to the real world... I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
60
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:38:00 -
[4027] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:I think thread fatigue is kicking in..
lol I think that kicked in about 100 pages ago :D |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1452
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:38:00 -
[4028] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:
7 . This kind of brutal humiliation of people and psychological bullying through ransom of assets , needs to be stated by CCP to be illegal when using out of game mechanisms. BASICALLY MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TEAMSPEAK SO FORTH WHEN YOUR SCAMMING THEM . This keeps everything within the EULA by keeping it in-game. As such it can be handled by CCP within the EULA framework
Are you serious, right now? That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Ivan Krividus
Born Crazy
157
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:38:00 -
[4029] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Pranks pranks pranks, all good fun. But there's always that sadistic poser who has to hammer it beyond fun into just tragic.
This. Is what Erotica1 does funny? Yes. Is he right when he claims to create 'emergent gameplay/content'? Yes. But he went too far. There's a difference between messing with someone in EVE (and this includes taking all their assets, etc.) and causing pain to someone in real life. There is a difference between kicking some guys ass in-game for him to scream and swear at you and deliberately inflicting emotional pain on someone just for the hell of it. In EVE, its ok to be a villain, but its not in real life. Would he have done this to some random kid at school, or some dude on the street? no.
Erotica has obviously crossed a line, even if it was an extremely blurry line. And making fun of speech impediment and other things along those lines is harassment. It doesn't matter if the victim was dumb enough to enter the bonus room for a long time anyway. If a rapist convinced me in real life to head over to his house and I got raped because of it, the crime of **** was still committed. Its a slightly extreme analogy, but the bottom line is that what Erotica did was wrong.
Truth be told, most EVE players are intelligent. Erotica probably knows that he went to far, or wanted the negative publicity. In any event, he is going to have to face a shitstorm of this debate and naming and shaming for a while to come. Is it what he wanted? We don't know. Getting back on topic, i'm surprised that anyone could find pleasure in harming someone else like this. Its a bit more than a prank, and even those siding with "HTFU" will agree that this is far more debatable than whiners complaining about how someone popped their barge or something.
Then again, its just a game. Maybe Erotica has exposed how immature and childish gamers can be on both sides, perpetrator or victim. Its just a game, guys. Calm down. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9323
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:38:00 -
[4030] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: +1
And you should not be shy about calling it like it is - torture, plain and simple.
And EVE community does not stand for this sort of thing.
BAN THEM ALL>
You should be ashamed of yourself to equate being made fun of on the internet with real torture. Anyone who has used that word to describe what happened to Sohkar The Consenting Adult should be banned. Because the EVE community does not stand for people to cheapen real suffering and real victims. Considering how everyone's suffering is personal to them, you're not really in any position to tell him his suffering isn't real. It's real to him, so why does it have to be real to you? "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
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H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:40:00 -
[4031] - Quote
olan2005 wrote: 7 . This kind of brutal humiliation of people and psychological bullying through ransom of assets , needs to be stated by CCP to be illegal when using out of game mechanisms. BASICALLY MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TEAMSPEAK SO FORTH WHEN YOUR SCAMMING THEM . This keeps everything within the EULA by keeping it in-game. As such it can be handled by CCP within the EULA framework
This would likely have an unintended effect on awoxing and corporate espionage. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
471
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:40:00 -
[4032] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You should be ashamed of yourself to equate being made fun of on the internet with real torture. Anyone who has used that word to describe what happened to Sohkar The Consenting Adult should be banned. Dear friend, unrustle your jimmies.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
272
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:41:00 -
[4033] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Last one James Amril-Kesh wrote:"It's funny and he deserved it because he was stupid. Also because it was funny." The way you take this personal pleasure in how the victim was treated makes you a creep to my eyes. No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?) Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting. He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real. You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be. D. OUT. (I promise )
Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they were not harmed.
That is actually why so many countries are taking such a serious looking into the thing that is cyber bullying. Often young children do not understand the repercussions of their actions at all.
It amuses me that you can subscribe to the fact you think he was not harmed at all. Physically no, but do you really think this had no effect on him (or his wife?)
You tell me with a straight face that you think everyone in that chat went out to the pub afterwards and had a joolly old chat and a few rounds. (Even the victim) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
|
Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:42:00 -
[4034] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dieterlin wrote:No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?) Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting. He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real. You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be. D. OUT. (I promise ) Except there clearly *was* harm, what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.
What "harm"? Being laughed at? In that case my alliance mates have some stuff to answer for.[/quote]
Did you stop reading at the comma? Here, let me copy the other half of my sentence into a quote box, so you can finish reading it.
Quote:what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.
Now, just to make everything perfectly clear, let's go look up a definition for Harassment!
Wikipedia wrote:It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
611
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:42:00 -
[4035] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:embrel wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that
So, you think that basically as long as somewhere somebody does have an empty belly all other perceived problems are irrelevant? YES. Like I said, crying about "bullying" between two consenting adults in a videogame is a textbook first world problem. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you're really so concerned with the plight of humanity. Way to lower the bar, really, really low. "First world problems" is a phrase invented by rich people who don't want to have to obey laws. No, really. Soon ALL problems will be easily dismissed, anyone not starving to death in agony will be a whiner, who is "entitled". Translation: "My heart bleeds, but I'd rather not get out of my chair so I'm complaining about stuff on the internet."
Translation: i lost an internet argument, so arguing on the internet is for losers
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
735
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:42:00 -
[4036] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:To deal with the Scammers and griefers i believe a policy of only allowing the use in-game tools and a stronger EULA and TOS is necessary . So just eliminate corp and alliance griefing and spying? Most require you to join TS. If you made scamming or griefing in Teamspeak ALL would require it. So if you scammed or griefed their alliance/corp you would be banned for TOS violation.
|
Mikey Aivo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:42:00 -
[4037] - Quote
Its no different than a goon recruitment scam. You take his assets and wait til he figures out hes been scammed. When completed post logs on goonfleet for everyone in the cfc to call you a hero. Might take an hour might take a day might take 3 days. Doesnt matter. I support both. Erotica had no idea how long it would take for this guy to figure it out and was simply playing the role of scammer, could of been 10 hours could of been 10 minutes |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1461
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:43:00 -
[4038] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:olan2005 wrote: 7 . This kind of brutal humiliation of people and psychological bullying through ransom of assets , needs to be stated by CCP to be illegal when using out of game mechanisms. BASICALLY MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TEAMSPEAK SO FORTH WHEN YOUR SCAMMING THEM . This keeps everything within the EULA by keeping it in-game. As such it can be handled by CCP within the EULA framework
This would likely have an unintended effect on awoxing and corporate espionage.
Not to mention, destroy the ability TO scam in one fell swoop.
"Hey man gimmee 1bil ISK I'll double it!" "OK, log on to Teamspeak and ask for the ISK there." ". . ." "Knew it, scammy mcscammer!" The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5470
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:44:00 -
[4039] - Quote
dexington wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote: He's a sadistic & really creepy person.
He probably is. What i wonder is in what warped world is creepy and sadistic worse than Racist and willing to Threaten someone's life and family. Nevermind the part where he & several other people did their best over two hours to illicit this exact response. You seem to be justifying the act with the result, which was clearly intended. Which doesn't matter because the grown man consented to it and did not disconnect. Erotica could have had him in TS for 10 hours, or 100. There is no excuse AT ALL for threating to do bodily harm to a man, and his family and to racially abuse people. He took advantage of someone, and you can't understand that person got upset and angry.... welcome to the real world...
You haven't been reading my posts then. He had every right to be angry....at him self for being a greedy 2009 born player and grown married man who let him get scammed by THE most well known scammer in EVE. He could also be angry at E1, but most of his anger should have been at himself for being dumb.
But did he choose to go on team speak, tell E1 to screw himself and then disconnect? No, and it's to bad, because that would have been all right.
He decided to stay and try to get his 'stuff back and when that failed he THREATEN THE LIFE of anohter human being, racially absued someone who identified himself as being of African descent and went crazy.
In other words, the reaction was worse than the cause, and the reaction removed from sensible people any sense of sympathy we would have had for the 'victim'. |
Victor Markov
Black Scare
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:45:00 -
[4040] - Quote
I see a lot of people using law and rules as a shield as if this was some kind of government. There are no laws saying what he did was wrong and so he can't be punished sort of thing. Fallowed by arguments saying if you punish him you change the laws and people will exploit those laws. Eve is not a government it is more like a home or a store. If I don't like your attitude I will ask you to get out of my home. Stores kick people out for being rude all the time and they don't even have to break any rules to be kicked out.
One of the CSM's asked what stops them from banning homosexuals or homophobics. The answer to that is nothing... nothing stops them now however.
If this was my game/house I would ban the lot of them even the victim at least temporarily. It might not be breaking the rules but you don't get to come in to my house and **** up the place and I just so happen to have the right to refuse service to anyone for anything... that part is even in the rules. |
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
906
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:46:00 -
[4041] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Rumour mongering is a bannable offence.
well there go the forums, then
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
1122
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:47:00 -
[4042] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
You haven't been reading my posts then. He had every right to be angry....at him self for being a greedy 2009 born player and grown married man who let him get scammed by THE most well known scammer in EVE. He could also be angry at E1, but most of his anger should have been at himself for being dumb.
But did he choose to go on team speak, tell E1 to screw himself and then disconnect? No, and it's to bad, because that would have been all right.
He decided to stay and try to get his 'stuff back and when that failed he THREATEN THE LIFE of anohter human being, racially absued someone who identified himself as being of African descent and went crazy.
In other words, the reaction was worse than the cause, and the reaction removed from sensible people any sense of sympathy we would have had for the 'victim'.
/thread
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1180
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:47:00 -
[4043] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:Its no different than a goon recruitment scam. You take his assets and wait til he figures out hes been scammed. When completed post logs on goonfleet for everyone in the cfc to call you a hero. Might take an hour might take a day might take 3 days. Doesnt matter. I support both. Erotica had no idea how long it would take for this guy to figure it out and was simply playing the role of scammer, could of been 10 hours could of been 10 minutes
I don't think Goons take all the victims assets, and then ask the victim to go on voice comms only to torment him for hours, so they can further humiliate him publicly... I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4407
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:48:00 -
[4044] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: He decided to stay and try to get his 'stuff back and when that failed he THREATEN THE LIFE of anohter human being, racially absued someone who identified himself as being of African descent and went crazy.
In other words, the reaction was worse than the cause, and the reaction removed from sensible people any sense of sympathy we would have had for the 'victim'.
Yeah, whatever.
By your own reasoning it doesn't count because it was made outside the game and thus breaks no rules.
What's good for the goose...and all that stuff.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Simyaldee
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Heiian Conglomerate
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:49:00 -
[4045] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Rumour mongering is a bannable offence.
well there go the forums, then m
I laughed, because it's definitely true.
Is there a point where the thread gets so big that it starts the singularity?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4396444#post4396444 Join the war, Join the4
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Styledatol
Yamato Heavy Industries
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:50:00 -
[4046] - Quote
The actions of Erotica, though distasteful, are not illegal. If the EVE community feels so strongly about that person, players can deal with the matter their own way: We're a creative bunch, there are ways to make Erotica's EVE experience unpleasant enough for him to ragequit - But this won't happen, we either don't care as much as we say we do, or we're content with 'fighting the good fight' only when others have to do the hard/dirty work.
The victim was not forced to endure that whole thing, no one pointed a gun to his head or threatened his family. If you're attached to your space pixels enough to go apeshit when you lose them this way, a tasteless prank is the least of your mental problems.
If you really have a problem with what happened, be the damn hero you're painting yourself to be. Do some spy work, mittens-style, find out everything about Erotica, and make his EVE experience hell. |
Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:50:00 -
[4047] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:dexington wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
He probably is. What i wonder is in what warped world is creepy and sadistic worse than Racist and willing to Threaten someone's life and family.
Nevermind the part where he & several other people did their best over two hours to illicit this exact response. You seem to be justifying the act with the result, which was clearly intended. Which doesn't matter because the grown man consented to it and did not disconnect. Erotica could have had him in TS for 10 hours, or 100. There is no excuse AT ALL for threating to do bodily harm to a man, and his family and to racially abuse people. He took advantage of someone, and you can't understand that person got upset and angry.... welcome to the real world... You haven't been reading my posts then. He had every right to be angry....at him self for being a greedy 2009 born player and grown married man who let him get scammed by THE most well known scammer in EVE. He could also be angry at E1, but most of his anger should have been at himself for being dumb. But did he choose to go on team speak, tell E1 to screw himself and then disconnect? No, and it's to bad, because that would have been all right. He decided to stay and try to get his 'stuff back and when that failed he THREATEN THE LIFE of anohter human being, racially absued someone who identified himself as being of African descent and went crazy. In other words, the reaction was worse than the cause, and the reaction removed from sensible people any sense of sympathy we would have had for the 'victim'.
Victims don't have to be innocent, or intelligent. This is irrelevant to the discussion about Ero1, but seems to be repeated every second post for some reason - probably because what Ero1 did is indefensible, and his supporters need to divert the conversation to something else.
Now, the victim is clearly also guilty of using slurs and making threats, and may deserve a ban as well, but that's a separate issue entirely. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
735
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:51:00 -
[4048] - Quote
Victor Markov wrote:I see a lot of people using law and rules as a shield as if this was some kind of government. There are no laws saying what he did was wrong and so he can't be punished sort of thing. Fallowed by arguments saying if you punish him you change the laws and people will exploit those laws. Eve is not a government it is more like a home or a store. If I don't like your attitude I will ask you to get out of my home. Stores kick people out for being rude all the time and they don't even have to break any rules to be kicked out.
One of the CSM's asked what stops them from banning homosexuals or homophobics. The answer to that is nothing... nothing stops them now however.
If this was my game/house I would ban the lot of them even the victim at least temporarily. It might not be breaking the rules but you don't get to come in to my house and **** up the place and I just so happen to have the right to refuse service to anyone for anything... that part is even in the rules.
Umm wait are you comparing in game behavior to RL??? I would be in prison for murder if RL laws applied to Eve.
Bottom line is if he scammed him out of in game assets and didn't attack his RL person there's nothing wrong. |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
62
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:51:00 -
[4049] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:Its no different than a goon recruitment scam. You take his assets and wait til he figures out hes been scammed. When completed post logs on goonfleet for everyone in the cfc to call you a hero. Might take an hour might take a day might take 3 days. Doesnt matter. I support both. Erotica had no idea how long it would take for this guy to figure it out and was simply playing the role of scammer, could of been 10 hours could of been 10 minutes
its not the same at all. The scam was already done, what followed was a plain and simple dismantling of a "real person" not an in game character for perverse kicks.
At least GSF do it with a bit of class and for the best part keep it in game.
The fact that even GSF guys are posting in here stating they think a line was crossed makes you stop and think. GSF are the kings of scam / meta and widely held as the most hated group of gamers in EVE or amybe even in the entire MMO scene. So if a group so widely despised for their scams even think this is one step beyond then maybe they have got a point ??
For the record I am not, have never been and will never be a part of GSF or the CFC so no clever ripostes of my being a GSF alt needed here. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
373
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Posted - 2014.03.26 23:51:00 -
[4050] - Quote
This is a game that--by design--allows and sometimes encourages people to be assholes, and no one wants that to change. Actually, that last bit isn't quite true. There are a lot of players who would love it if EvE were just a space version of unicorn hugs and puppy dog dreams. But the core of the population doesn't want that to change.
I think that what Erotica 1 does is gross. I think that given enough time Erotica or someone like him doing something similar will happen to pick just the right player in the right kind of mental condition and end up precipitating a suicide. It seems inevitable that if you create a game environment that encourages people to be terrible to one another, people will be as terrible to each other as they can get away with. And there's at least one person out there who would really get off on "causing" someone to commit suicide. To be clear, I'm not saying Erotica is that person. He probably has limits. But there is almost certainly someone out there who doesn't.
But here's the problem: we have some general guidelines about griefing and harassment being defined as a person or a group of people specifically targeting an individual and doing so repeatedly. Because Erotica doesn't (to my limited knowledge, anyway) ever do this to the same person twice, he skirts the rules as they are currently assumed to exist.
I'm being vague above because I don't know that CCP has ever actually come out and said precisely how griefing and harassment are defined. I think they like to have some wiggle room. Maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, if CCP does something to Erotica over this incident, it's going to be very tough to do it without setting a precedent that takes away from the core of EvE gameplay. The lines all around are pretty blurry. You can (very fairly) describe what Erotica 1 does as preying on those of a certain mindset and taking joy in inflicting misery on them.
But you could also say the same thing about your run-of-the-mill corp thief, awoxer, pirate, scammer, or ninja salvager. That description would be just as fair from other points of view.
This is the internet; everyone is a monster to someone. Yes. You too.
The completely EvE response to this is, "No real life harm (to either party), no foul, no action against any of the involved players."
I don't know if CCP will choose that response, though, because a) this kind of thing is headed in a truly bad direction even if this particular event wasn't horrible, b) human empathy, c) PR, or d) some combination of the above.
One of the nice things about running a game as opposed to, say, a republic, is that there are no rights, there are no rules except what CCP says.
You can make a strong argument that the "victim" should be banned for making death threats and showering verbal abuse and racism on another player. Without a doubt, this is strong.
You can also make the argument that Erotica 1, alts, and friends should get banned because because they actually do repeatedly harass and grief a very specific group of people: people who are in a mental condition to self-select their way into the bonus room. I think this is less strong, but strong enough.
CCP can do either one or both of those without altering core game play though. They can do it by stating what we all know is true: the lines about griefing and harassment are fuzzy and ill-defined. They act when they see fit because they can. And they can act on this without saying a single thing for people to generalize from. Or they can say nothing. Or they can do nothing.
And that's fine too.
The bottom line is that this is an example of "EvE is real". All the white knighting about the "victim" is probably mostly coming from the people who would really prefer that EvE turned into rainbow unicorn farts online. All the people defending Erotica 1 are probably just as scummy as I think Erotica 1 is. And to both of those groups of people, I am probably the worst kind of player who has ever existed because I use colgate instead of crest, or I am a member of RvB, or because I almost never log on, and therefore enjoy the ability to forum warrior without being available to blow up in-game.
I am a monster in the eve universe. Just like you.
One thing I can say with some certainty is that Erotica 1 enjoys publicity. I'm pretty sure all possible arguments about this topic have been made in one way or another. Everything else is just feeding his ego. I suggest stopping. Let this thread die. Wait for CCP to respond or not respond. More of this is just fodder for Erotica 1 to get off on.
To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion. ~CCP Fozzie |
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