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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
262
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:50:00 -
[511] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?
If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?
If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?
What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?
Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?
It's not illegal for players to be intolerant and make racist or homophobic taunts in local chat or, to name their ships, corporations or characters with racial epithets yet, CCP chooses to take action against players who do so. So you tell me more about CCP's "responsibility" and where it begins and ends, please. |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
95
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:50:00 -
[512] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom I don't know about that. According to EVE, once you give your items to someone else, those items then belong to that person.
So in other words Erotica 1 was offering in game items for services outside of the game? |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1412
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:50:00 -
[513] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:I've developed an opinion that all the perps should be identified at hardware and geological location. Ban all their hardware and of course their accounts. I'd say a crime has been committed so forward the soundbites to the players local authorities and if there is anything going on in the local playgrounds or family disputes they know right where to go. Anything less is irresponsible as a priest or doctor not stopping personal harm that they have heard about. CCP does not and cannot guarantee privacy for criminal acts.
We can't let this knowingly go on, certainly to condone it is to assist in later abuses. To even have heard this psychological dehumanization going on outside of a war theater, and even within, has made me less human.
I have to agree. Sokar should go to jail for threatening to kill Erotica 1's mother over a video game. Finally we've reached agreement in GD! I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2487
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:51:00 -
[514] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:I've developed an opinion that all the perps should be identified at hardware and geological location.
Im on a PC and my house is built on a mix of igneous rock and a flatland of temperate inland silt from a shallow loch.
Does that help? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1412
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:51:00 -
[515] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?
I've seen your killboard. Maybe you should just play on a laptop at the local station. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
506
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:53:00 -
[516] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go!
False. Teamspeak.
And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes. |
voetius
BITB Support Services
206
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:53:00 -
[517] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Notorious Fellon wrote:
Injecting a politically and religiously charged topic into the discussion is not helping; it is trolling.
It serves no purpose in the discussion other than to make people angry.
Then stick to the point I made and not the illustrating metaphor if the subject is too sensitive for you to see past the literal phrasing and see why it applies. How do you define morality? When does an action become immoral?What makes this action any more or less immoral than making someone sing to avoid a podding? That is a tradition in EvE and has been since long long ago
One of many definitions, but the one I prefer at the moment, would be Kant's Categorical Imperative :
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."[1]
Kant has a certain reputation for obscurity, which is certainly justified, so if it isn't immediately apparent what he means, that could be paraphrased somewhat loosely as "do unto others as you would want to be done to".
There's a nice page on Wikipedia that discusses this in more detail. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17413
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:53:00 -
[518] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Winchester Steele wrote: Why aren't you running for CSM again? The people of New Eden need guys like you on the CSM.
The consensus is that they don't deserve me. Malcanis, the hero Eve needs right now, not the one it deserves.
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1412
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:54:00 -
[519] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go! False. Teamspeak. And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes.
It was a hypothetical. All of your previous arguments hinge on it being OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. So you'll need new ones to address the hypothetical of Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Now tell us why it is illegal. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
605
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:54:00 -
[520] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Capt Starfox wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship? I've seen your killboard. Maybe you should just play on a laptop at the local station.
Hey! I'm doing a lot better this month okay!!
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
398
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:54:00 -
[521] - Quote
CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.
So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
508
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:56:00 -
[522] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?
It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it.
For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters. The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1398
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:56:00 -
[523] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.
So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community.
The epic lolz will happen when it does blow up....only more in the "Look at how goofy EVE players are singing and breaking stuff for a game!", and not "OMG look at this cyberbullying!" The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14388
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:57:00 -
[524] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Malcanis wrote: Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?
If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?
If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?
What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?
Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?
It's not illegal for players to be intolerant and make racist or homophobic taunts in local chat or, to name their ships, corporations or characters with racial epithets yet, CCP chooses to take action against players who do so. So you tell me more about CCP's "responsibility" and where it begins and ends, please.
Those are in-game actions.
1 Kings 12:11
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Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
608
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:57:00 -
[525] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go! False. Teamspeak. And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes.
I still don't understand why the police should care about my, or anyone else's, space stuff.
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Winchester Steele
485
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:57:00 -
[526] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:I read the Jester's blog post, but I haven't read any of the comments there, nor here. My opinion based on what Erotica1 has done, is to permaban him and all his accounts. No mercy whatsoever, no refunds for money spent. Nada. Would you care to expand upon why Erotica and the like should suffer real world punishment for actions that are carried out within a virtual world that does not forbid said actions, no matter how distasteful you or I may find them? Perspective is a quality that some in this thread appear to be lacking. If you don't like something that somebody is doing within the confines of Eve, then punish them for it, in game. Threats of real world violence for actions carried out within the context of Eve are not acceptable, people who make such threats, or condone them should be stomped on from a great height by both CCP and local authorities. I don't know about Icelandic law, but in my country what Erotica1 does with the Bonus Room, is illegal. That alone is reason enough for me.
Hows the weather over there in bullsh*tistan? This game is built around the likes of us. It's not the assholes that are playing the wrong game. - James Amril-Kesh. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14388
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:57:00 -
[527] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.
So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community.
So what you're saying is that you don't care what damage is caused to CCP or EVE as long as you can get someone you don't like banned.
Wow.
1 Kings 12:11
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Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:58:00 -
[528] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go! False. Teamspeak. And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes. It was a hypothetical. All of your previous arguments hinge on it being OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. So you'll need new ones to address the hypothetical of Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Now tell us why it is illegal.
Illegal? The laws of various countries and states may claim jurisdiction based on Erotica 1's location or other details. It wouldn't matter if it was in or out of game.
Against the EULA. Sections 6.A.5 bans using any of CCP's communication methods for harassing, abusive, or harmful conduct. Yes it is broad. Yes you probably break the rule often. Yes it allows CCP to ban people when they like. For instance if they decide that Erotica 1 is providing bad publicity then the use of in game communication methods would provide the excuse to ban. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5257
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:59:00 -
[529] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME assets ransom.
The entire "Bonus Room" is an external context, outside of EVE, in which he is dealing with people as people, with himself and all associated persons involved, as legal real entities.
What he is doing OUTSIDE OF THE GAME is extremely and unequivocably, illegal.
You can't extort someone for items that have no value.... a lawyer would know this.
|
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2370
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:59:00 -
[530] - Quote
voetius wrote:One of many definitions, but the one I prefer at the moment, would be Kant's Categorical Imperative :
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."[1]
Kant has a certain reputation for obscurity, which is certainly justified, so if it isn't immediately apparent what he means, that could be paraphrased somewhat loosely as "do unto others as you would want to be done to".
How can you quote Kant and then misinterpret the words so horribly? "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:00:00 -
[531] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So what you're saying is that you don't care what damage is caused to CCP or EVE as long as you can get someone you don't like banned. That's not at all what I said.
I don't have an opinion on Erotica1. I just read the blog post, and then pages of hurfblurf outrage here.
People want to ostracize someone to correct this behavior? The simplest way is to go after CCP's wallet and reputation.
What's wow is a living breathing strawman elected to the CSM. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:00:00 -
[532] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote: I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.
Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
608
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:00:00 -
[533] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Capt Starfox wrote:[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship? It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it. For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters. The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal.
Okay, but we're talking about a game where scamming is okay and we're also talking about virtual video game items. Even if part of the scam happens out of the game as long as the person is only scammed out of in-game items, it's not an IRL crime. Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14388
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:01:00 -
[534] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Malcanis wrote:So what you're saying is that you don't care what damage is caused to CCP or EVE as long as you can get someone you don't like banned. That's not at all what I said.
I'm afraid it is.
What you meant? Maybe not. But it's the logical consequence of what you said.
1 Kings 12:11
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Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2370
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:01:00 -
[535] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.
We know you're in Widot, or at least were, and its still safe to assume most Widot guys aren't as smart as you. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17417
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:02:00 -
[536] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Capt Starfox wrote:[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship? It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it. For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters. The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal. Actually it's very different, extortion and blackmail in real life involves real currency and assets, generally owned by or the responsibility of the victim.
In Eve every single asset and item of currency belongs to CCP, not the individual being blackmailed, as such if those assets and currency stay within the game they remain the property of CCP. Nothing is stolen from the legitimate owners of the property, which is CCP. All assets and currency held by players are on loan from the owners of said items, CCP.
Nothing of any value is lost to ingame blackmail, scamming or ransom. It all remains the property of CCP who can take it back at any time, for any reason they see fit.
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1417
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:02:00 -
[537] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.
So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community. The epic lolz will happen when it does blow up....only more in the "Look at how goofy EVE players are singing and breaking stuff for a game!", and not "OMG look at this cyberbullying!"
And if it goes the other way, I'm betting the guy who threatened to kill someone and send their friend around to his mother's house to "gut" her over a video game probably won't be getting the sympathetic hearing hoped for. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5257
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:02:00 -
[538] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?
I tried that when i lost my mach to some Confederation of XXpizza guys. When the police wouldn't take the case I sued XXPizza civilly, not just for the mach but for rebelling during the American Civil War and failing to deliver my Pizza in 30 parsecs or less..
Judge Judy wouldn't take the damn case. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:03:00 -
[539] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME assets ransom.
The entire "Bonus Room" is an external context, outside of EVE, in which he is dealing with people as people, with himself and all associated persons involved, as legal real entities.
What he is doing OUTSIDE OF THE GAME is extremely and unequivocably, illegal. You can't extort someone for items that have no value.... a lawyer would know this.
There is such a thing as psychological extortion. Furthermore a person has time and effort invested in those items so who are you to say the items have no value? My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1398
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:03:00 -
[540] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Erotica 1 wrote: I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.
Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.
What benefit would Ero get by doing that?
I mean, is there anything E1 could say, that would prevent you from wanting to hang him/her from the yardarm RL? The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
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