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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5260
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:16:00 -
[571] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Malcanis wrote: As I said before, it's not when the popular handsome hero is on trial that our dedication to justice is tested. It's when the unpopular, ugly, awful unpleasant defendant needs a fair hearing.
That's when we really see who cares about doing what's right.
That's a good point. The guy who got griefed is obviously not popular in-game, no one has heard of him. He has a speech impediment and is from the sound of things gullible. All things that make him ripe for ridicule, apparently. Meanwhile, Erotica1 has many friends on the forums who don't want to see him punished, they are out in droves trying to justify that recording. They don't want their "fun" or their popular guy threatened. So Malcanis, you "white knght" Erotica1 because he is "somebody" in the community and the other guy is a "nobody" So you are backing the "in crowd" over the "outcast". That's justice for you...
Look at the hoops people go through to twist things around. I think it's childish.
It's not about popularity, it's about what is expected of adults. The 'victim' went willingly into a bad situation and got owned and blew up about it (while at the very same time exposing himself as a potentially violent racist).
Malcanis is supporting reason and due process over emotion and mob justice and mysticism and and giant persian elephants....Damn, i should never post while watching '300' reruns.
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2493
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:16:00 -
[572] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote: Our country is controlled by people who fall over themselves to take offence where none was meant, who have a hard on for banning activities and opinions they don't like. They're called Guardian readers, and they are the esablishment.
Actually, they are called Daily Mail readers and they are reactionary fools who voted in a mix of impotent pretend centralists and the Tories
and they control jack all because they arent Managing Directors and the CEOs of the banks *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Wesley Otsdarva
Asuratech Industrial Corp AAA Citizens
15
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:18:00 -
[573] - Quote
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1423
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:18:00 -
[574] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Let's get more theoretical then....
Suppose pedos were using Eve Online as a means of contacting underage people for their sick plans. Would that make it OK because it's OUTSIDE OF THE GAME ?
I'm not really sure of what you're trying to get at with your hypothetical. Pedophilia is a real world crime and is punished by authorities, at least in the US, regardless of the medium. If you are suggesting that scamming, stealing, and all sorts of other crime in Eve should be punished by the authorities because they are real world crimes, then I think you are in the vast minority of players of Eve. But I somehow don't think you are saying that.
Scamming, stealing, blackmailing, and other "crimes" are all legal and can be legal inside of the game because the assets aren't actually ours or owned by us. CCP owns them and can decide what players in their game can do with them. So in reality, these aren't real world crimes, but valid game play. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
405
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:18:00 -
[575] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:No he's saying that everyone no matter how "obvious" a criminal they are should get their time in court in front of 12 and true.
so Malcanis is advocating for out of game legal action now? That's news to me. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:19:00 -
[576] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Actually it's very different, extortion and blackmail in real life involves real currency and assets, generally owned by or the responsibility of the victim. The real life currencies and assets are generally not recoverable by their legitimate owner after the crime has been committed.
In Eve every single asset and item of currency belongs to CCP, not the individual being blackmailed, as such if those assets and currency stay within the game they remain the property of CCP. Nothing is stolen from the legitimate owners of the property, which is CCP. All assets and currency held by players are on loan from the owners of said items, CCP.
Nothing of any value is lost to ingame blackmail, scamming or ransom. It all remains the property of CCP who can take it back at any time, for any reason they see fit.
Erotica1 was clearly looking for services, actions to be performed by Sohkar (and others). Those actions were to be performed outside of the game on a Teamspeak server. Erotica1 may have used coercion to obtain those services. Thus a crime of extortion may have been committed.
If the activities were outside the game then Erotica1 was clearly offering in game items (or to make in game actions) in return for out of game services (or actions). It may be that Erotica1 had no intention of providing those in game items (or in making certain in game actions). |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
525
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:20:00 -
[577] - Quote
I Riven I wrote:Guys can you all please calm down here??
ITS JUST MONEY!!
IF ITS $100 OR $1000 .. IT STILL JUST POCKET MONEY AND NOT A BANK ROBBERY OF MILLIONS.
So much drama out of a couple hundreds..
This stopped being about the money like 26 pages ago... My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2493
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:20:00 -
[578] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:No he's saying that everyone no matter how "obvious" a criminal they are should get their time in court in front of 12 and true.
so Malcanis is advocating for out of game legal action now? That's news to me.
What does due process mean to you then? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2373
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:21:00 -
[579] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Meanwhile, Erotica1 has many friends on the forums who don't want to see him punished, they are out in droves trying to justify that recording. They don't want their "fun" or their popular guy threatened.
So Malcanis, you "white knght" Erotica1 because he is "somebody" in the community and the other guy is a "nobody"
You're saying that the Eve playerbase is incapable of altruism and uninterested in justice, both of which are demonstrably false. There are plenty of people who are not friends with Erotica1, or gankers, or scammers, or the mittani, or whoever else, that are willing to defend their actions as being legitimate gameplay. Sadisticly taunting a moron isn't justified by that person being a moron, but neither is it true that any morally reprehensible action should automatically merit a ban regardless of aggravating or mitigating circumstances.
ShipSpin wrote:Harassment is a real world crime regardless of where it happens.
True, but unless erotica1 et al dox the guy and start calling him, emailing him, contacting his friends & family, or otherwise defame him, its still not harassment. Getting **** on via a consensual phone call that you've consented to have recorded is not harassment. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17421
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:21:00 -
[580] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Actually, they are called Daily Mail readers and they are reactionary fools who voted in a mix of impotent pretend centralists and the Tories TBH 99% of the UKs politicians are out of touch trust fund morons, regardless of their political affiliations. The Daily Mail itself is pretty much Fox News printed on paper.
We're pretty screwed when Boris is the only politician who is worth giving a damn about.
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Jayem See
Perkone Caldari State
2446
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:22:00 -
[581] - Quote
I might as well state that I find the recording in very poor taste. Whilst scamming is legal within Eve (and I would have it no other way) once this chap's assets have been removed, there isn't much justification for continuing to prolong his ordeal.
We've all heard clips of people singing for their ship. The difference is that it doesn't continue for several hours (whether the ransom is honoured or not.)
It does strike me that Erotica1 has taken it way, way too far.
Whilst Malcanis may sit there and say that no rules have been broken, which they haven't, it does strike me as odd that he can't see that CCP are within their right to review those rules and amend them as they see fit. A lot of people seem to find the recording objectionable - CCP's response is for them to make and not for Malcanis and a few others to decide.
I personally wouldn't ask them to ban Erotica1 but they are within their rights to ask him to tone it down. Whilst I understand they have no recourse outside of Eve, they can make a decision about whether they want a player associated with their product.
It's a thorny situation for sure. It does sadden me to see so many people justifying something like this. It just crosses the line for me.
Incidentally - Jester's blog might have been more effective if he had avoided the word torture. In this case it probably inflammatory rather than constructive.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
405
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:22:00 -
[582] - Quote
Kadl wrote:Erotica1 was clearly looking for services, actions to be performed by Sohkar (and others). Those actions were to be performed outside of the game on a Teamspeak server. Erotica1 may have used coercion to obtain those services. Thus a crime of extortion may have been committed.
If the activities were outside the game then Erotica1 was clearly offering in game items (or to make in game actions) in return for out of game services (or actions). It may be that Erotica1 had no intention of providing those in game items (or in making certain in game actions). Whether it's criminal or not, it's probably abhorrent behavior based on even the White Knight's posting in this thread. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
614
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:23:00 -
[583] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Malcanis wrote:I'm not defending what erotica1 does I'm afraid you are. What you meant? Maybe not. But it's the logical consequence of what you said see what I did there?Malcanis wrote:I'm defending his right to fair treatment and due process according to the rules. You're the kind of guy who'd argue for a rapist to go free on a technicality then. Right? Because observation of arbitrary rules should trump justice? Let's really get the heat off Erotica1. Let's talk about the CSM who defends harassment, mental abuse and torture because it's "not against the rules". Malcanis wrote:I sincerely hope that you never have the occasion to experience it in reality. Great representative of the community. If my constituents hurt, it's ok as long as it doesn't happen to me. Well played friend.
It's not torture. It's not criminal activity. Comparing real world crime/criminals to a video screams for attention. I would rather have him represent us, because he knows the rules of the video and the difference between IRL and virtual video games.
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
525
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:23:00 -
[584] - Quote
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage.
Oh ****. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2493
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:23:00 -
[585] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Actually, they are called Daily Mail readers and they are reactionary fools who voted in a mix of impotent pretend centralists and the Tories TBH 99% of the UKs politicians are out of touch trust fund morons, regardless of their political affiliations. The Daily Mail itself is pretty much Fox News printed on paper. We're pretty screwed when Boris is the only politician who is worth giving a damn about.
This is true, and the more Boris speaks, the less sense he talks.
Still at least you guys in Engerland have that to content with and not what I have in the part I live in where your voting blcok is determined by what kind of Christian you supposedly are *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Praise the Yeti
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:24:00 -
[586] - Quote
The people calling for Erotica 1 to be banned based on that recording........why are you not calling for Shadoo and Grath Telkin to be banned also based on the very public recordings of them (by defacto) engaging in what could be perceived to be exactly the same activity?
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I Riven I
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:25:00 -
[587] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:I Riven I wrote:Guys can you all please calm down here??
ITS JUST MONEY!!
IF ITS $100 OR $1000 .. IT STILL JUST POCKET MONEY AND NOT A BANK ROBBERY OF MILLIONS.
So much drama out of a couple hundreds.. This stopped being about the money like 26 pages ago...
from what I can tell, the guy is the one that deserves to be banned, as he life threatened another player.
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Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:25:00 -
[588] - Quote
Batelle wrote:True, but unless erotica1 et al dox the guy and start calling him, emailing him, contacting his friends & family, or otherwise defame him, its still not harassment. Getting **** on via a consensual phone call that you've consented to have recorded is not harassment.
But if you are coerced then the phone call may not be consensual in all jurisdictions, and if you are coerced to agree to the recording then the consent is not really consent.
Honestly the police, and lawyers can take up the legal issue as they desire.
Whether this happened in game or out of game it seems clear that CCP could ban Erotic1, the question is do they want to. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
405
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:25:00 -
[589] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:What does due process mean to you then? I am not talking about court. I am not talking about law. "Due process" is a fiction of fairness, provided when it is convenient to do so, and denied when it is not.
We don't need 12 jurors to hear this case. Let the wider world listen to the recording as Ripard suggested, and let them judge Eve and CCP for it.
I am sure CCP can get Malcanis to volunteer to head up PR on this, where he can explain to people disgusted by this behavior that it's within the rules, and that Erotica1 deserves his day in court. That will be compelling for sure. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
291
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:25:00 -
[590] - Quote
ITT "don't dangle restitution in front of your marks and have them join your comms to humiliate themselves for two hours while you make fun of their speech impediment" is apparently an unreasonable request on the community. |
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Kara Vix
Sanford and Son Salvage
216
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:25:00 -
[591] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kadl wrote:Erotica1 was clearly looking for services, actions to be performed by Sohkar (and others). Those actions were to be performed outside of the game on a Teamspeak server. Erotica1 may have used coercion to obtain those services. Thus a crime of extortion may have been committed.
If the activities were outside the game then Erotica1 was clearly offering in game items (or to make in game actions) in return for out of game services (or actions). It may be that Erotica1 had no intention of providing those in game items (or in making certain in game actions). Whether it's criminal or not, it's probably abhorrent behavior based on even the White Knight's posting in this thread.
Even as a police officer (retired) with a masters degree I cannot say if this was legal or not, but I can say it was abusive enough that a court would probably look at it if a complaint were made, so I think CCP should take it seriously. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5276
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:26:00 -
[592] - Quote
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage.
Good, perhaps people will learn that EVE online is grown folks business and stay in their thempark MMOs all swaddled in cotton safe from the 'griefers'..
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Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1406
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:26:00 -
[593] - Quote
Praise the Yeti wrote:The people calling for Erotica 1 to be banned based on that recording........why are you not calling for Shadoo and Grath Telkin to be banned also based on the very public recordings of them (by defacto) engaging in what could be perceived to be exactly the same activity?
Oh hush you no better than that. Gankers and scammers and such are total scum. You can tell because the database numbers attached to that character say so! The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
405
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[594] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:[It's not torture. It's not criminal activity. Comparing real world crime/criminals to a video game screams for attention. I would rather have him represent us, because he knows the rules of the video and the difference between IRL and virtual video games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
Just giving Malcanis a taste of his own medicine. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Winchester Steele
492
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[595] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Xander Delacroix wrote:On one side we have those who want Erotica1 and his cronies buried in a digital shallow grave.
On the other side, we have those wishing to hoist Erotic1 up on their shoulders as a hero to freedom.
Perhaps, just perhaps, there's a middle ground? Where we can discuss the underlying issue, rather than this single incident? We're all adults, and dealing with the issue of 'potential' cyber bullying is very much an adult issue. So how about we all get off our respective soapboxes, myself included, and start discussing, as adults, this issue and the ramifications that any potential decisions and actions taken regarding the "emergent gameplay" vs "cyber-bullying" debate? Ok. I think cyber bullying is a bullshit term made up by soccer moms to explain their own failings to teach their children how to properly defend themselves in this dog eat dog world. I think it's utter garbage spewed by socialists and busybodies who are terrified because the internet represents something they can't control. At it's most base it is a form of thought control from people like you who think they are on the moral highground. Turn your ******* computer off. Delete your facebook. In this case, just DON'T GO INTO THE BONUS ROUND WITH A KNOWN SCAMMER.Why is it that folks like you ALWAYS need the authorities (CCP) to fight your battles for you? Man the **** up son. And watch your advioce be ignored lol. RIGHT NOW I've got some distant family members (cousins) involved in a facebook shouting match with some other cousins about something stupid. This weekend I saw 1 cousin each from both opposing sides and both vented at me how dumb the other side was. And both kept asking me when i was gonna get on facebook lol. I'm still in WTF mode over that, they're playing virtual Hatfields and McCoys with each other and then looking at me as If I'm the crazy one for not fooling with facebook.....
I have an empty facebook page, with my wife as my only friend. Just so I can see on all the pictures of my beautiful children that she posts. I don't use my real name and my profile is blank. It's noones business what my status is right now, and frankly, I couldn't give two ***** about anyone else's "status". Facebook is ****. This game is built around the likes of us. It's not the assholes that are playing the wrong game. - James Amril-Kesh. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
51
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[596] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Drone 16 wrote:Malcanis wrote: As I said before, it's not when the popular handsome hero is on trial that our dedication to justice is tested. It's when the unpopular, ugly, awful unpleasant defendant needs a fair hearing.
That's when we really see who cares about doing what's right.
That's a good point. The guy who got griefed is obviously not popular in-game, no one has heard of him. He has a speech impediment and is from the sound of things gullible. All things that make him ripe for ridicule, apparently. Meanwhile, Erotica1 has many friends on the forums who don't want to see him punished, they are out in droves trying to justify that recording. They don't want their "fun" or their popular guy threatened. So Malcanis, you "white knght" Erotica1 because he is "somebody" in the community and the other guy is a "nobody" So you are backing the "in crowd" over the "outcast". That's justice for you... Look at the hoops people go through to twist things around. I think it's childish. It's not about popularity, it's about what is expected of adults. The 'victim' went willingly into a bad situation and got owned and blew up about it (while at the very same time exposing himself as a potentially violent racist). Malcanis is supporting reason and due process over emotion and mob justice and mysticism and and giant persian elephants....Damn, i should never post while watching '300' reruns.
The only hoops you that are being jumped through are the ones that you are your friends are frantically skipping through to rationalize outright cruelty. Sure the victim walked into it, sure he should be fleeced, this is Eve not "Hello Kitty" but that recording goes far beyond that.
You defend it because you identify more strongly with what Erotica1 did and you support that type of behavior in the game. Just be honest and say it.
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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
159
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[597] - Quote
Cyber-bullying crosses a line.
Ban Erotica 1, his alts, and everyone else that ever participated in this.
EDIT: The victim should do this:
File an action in USA court over cyber-bullying, with CCP as party to the case. CCP office in USA would fold and release IP of Erotica 1, they dont need this kind of publicity - thats guaranteed. CCP arent stupid, they will not defend a user like that EULA or not.
Then file action vs Erotica directly, and watch him dance. Cyber-bullying in USA has serious repercussions, - jail-time.
It would not even cost that much, no more then 10 grand, most of it recoverable as damages later. I do this sort of thing in my real life work every now and again against trade mark infringements. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2496
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[598] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:What does due process mean to you then? I am not talking about court. I am not talking about law. "Due process" is a fiction of fairness, provided when it is convenient to do so, and denied when it is not. We don't need 12 jurors to hear this case. Let the wider world listen to the recording as Ripard suggested, and let them judge Eve and CCP for it. I am sure CCP can get Malcanis to volunteer to head up PR on this, where he can explain to people disgusted by this behavior that it's within the rules, and that Erotica1 deserves his day in court. That will be compelling for sure.
Ok so you do see what he meant, and wasnt as you suggested, advocating for a rapist to be let off on a technicality.
Good good *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
rodyas
tie fighters inc
1322
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[599] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Anslo wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Erotica1, fighter for freedom and against Tyranny. Who in hell would have thought that LOL.
As I said before, it's not when the popular handsome hero is on trial that our dedication to justice is tested. It's when the unpopular, ugly, awful unpleasant defendant needs a fair hearing. That's when we really see who cares about doing what's right. It should speak volumes about the community's state when a CSM candidate is defending these kind of actions. I'm not defending what erotica1 does I'm defending his right to fair treatment and due process according to the rules. I'm sorry you're unable to see the difference, but the difference is there nonetheless. I sincerely hope that you never have the occasion to experience it in reality.
Well what are the rules regarding loopholes? Does CCP admit they were outsmarted by erotica1 by him having conversations through non game program with another EVE player?
Maybe CCP should clarify those loopholes then see what should happen to erotica1 or so.
Besides if erotica1 did outsmart CCP through that, what is wrong about setting up character purchases and ISK selling on programs outside the EVE client.
I should be able to exit EVE, go to ebay, which isn't owned by CCP and sell my character and that is all legal, since it is outside CCP's hands.
Also since character trading is illegal, I should be able to reclaim my character through CCP giving me control to it again.
That would be a scam and CCP couldn't punish me for it, since all the TOS breaking happened outside the game as well. Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5276
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:27:00 -
[600] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:ITT "don't dangle restitution in front of your marks and have them join your comms to humiliate themselves for two hours while you make fun of their speech impediment" is apparently an unreasonable request on the community.
It actually is unreasonable, unless someone was int he dudes house holding a gun to his head preventing him fro disconnecting.
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