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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4493
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:06:00 -
[811] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US. Are you serious?! I loled for real Seriously
Well I don't think this is a federal crime but you have to consider this: where there is belligerency there is little protection to be offered by paper.
Where it up to me to do this to someone, to take them to a bonus room of sorts, I would not be checking the legal aspects of "legal or not" but more for the matter of whether I could be charged or not.
Being charged with federal crimes is unlikely for this case, but perchance the person you are doing this do knows someone in power, or the media is having a slow day and there's a prosecutor looking for some fame, would still mean an arrest, confiscation of all computer assets (and any cash on hand) followed by thousands in legal bills.
You don't have to be guilty to pay for a "crime". Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cataclysmic Paradox
157
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:06:00 -
[812] - Quote
I can't help but feel that this thread will be the beginning of an end. |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:06:00 -
[813] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.
According to the US legal code, Extortion and blackmail involve other criminal actions(threatening to commit a crime against someone or threatening to reveal someone's illegal activity).
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Navi Annages
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:07:00 -
[814] - Quote
Here's one. Sokhar is responsible for the Malaysian flight that was lost. Trust those air traffic controllers with your life. Trust Erotica with your isk.
Erotica for CSM!!! |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
206
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:07:00 -
[815] - Quote
We've become a type of ****. Not sexual but psychologically violent. Soul snuffing, come to EVE and watch it here. WE invented it, cultivated it and praise it as emergent. We are the future. Externalize your inner social perversions here. WHy fantasize about torturing other people when you can come here and do it for real under the protection of International and corporate civil and criminal law loopholes.
We ARE the new **** |
Forum Clone 77777
Do You Even Irony Broew
185
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:07:00 -
[816] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US. Extortion? CCP owns everything in the game, what you percieve as "yours" in EVE is owned, all of it, by CCP. How do you extort someone for something they dont own? It would be the same as me saying "You gave me your imaginary lollipop under false premises, now sing a song or you wont get your IMAGINARY lollipop back" Its the exact same thing. A person with mental problems might actually get angry about the imaginary lollipop, but that doesnt actually mean anything. No one forced these people to give away their stuff, theyre giving it away willingly. No one is forcing these people to act out and be subject to jokes on teamspeak, they could quit anytime, not say anything, or just not get onto that teamspeak to begin with.
What youre doing on the other hand is trying to make up reasons for people to actually be punished for hilarious **** happening in a game, where you only have some sort of percieved ownership of assets.
Me, I heard the entire recording, and whenever the dude had a tantrum I laughed my ass off, am I evil? No, if people have their real life property stolen, I dont laugh in their faces, theres a difference, this guy is acting up massively over CCPs property still being CCPs property, welcome the the real world, welcome to EVE. Your assets are only "yours" as long as theyre in "your" hangar. |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cataclysmic Paradox
157
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:09:00 -
[817] - Quote
Navi Annages wrote:Here's one. Sokhar is responsible for the Malaysian flight that was lost. Trust those air traffic controllers with your life. Trust Erotica with your isk.
Erotica for CSM!!!
-100/10 Why are you such a bad troll? I feel bad for you. Embarrassed even. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2543
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:10:00 -
[818] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Im laughing because you are a fantasist if you think those apply It applies completely, because it happened OUTSIDE OF EVE.
I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.
No money changed hands.
Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17453
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:10:00 -
[819] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US. Unless you happen to be the government, or a friend of the government; as is true elsewhere in the world.
Eve online is not the USA, it is a virtual world where the laws are set by the creators of that world.
The creators of that world are regulated by Icelandic law, not US law.
But all of that is besides the point, while the bonus room is technically outside of the Eve universe, it is very much operated within the context of the Eve universe.
If the aggrieved party wishes to make a complaint against Erotica they are free to do so either via CCP or their local law enforcement authority, I don't think that threatening to gut someone over some pixels is going to go down particularly well with either though.
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:11:00 -
[820] - Quote
Well, you lied to her.
What happened to him is the following by analogy:
Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.
A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.
Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one. She complies and gives him her lollipop.
The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.
That is what is happening here. |
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Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2398
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:11:00 -
[821] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.
Without some kind of threat attached, the events described qualify as neither offense. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
11265
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:12:00 -
[822] - Quote
Next we shall blog about the reading of Erotic Fan Fiction over mumble while structure bashing and how its killing Eve!
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:12:00 -
[823] - Quote
Danalee wrote:As suggested in the blog, I let my dear grandmother hear the hilarious soundcloud and explained to her what happened. She asked; Why is this poor man playing along with this charade? My answer: He thinks he can be space rich if he does. Her answer: Greedy and stupid... poor chap. D.
Yes, this illness is passed on through generations. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2919
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:12:00 -
[824] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:Also for the grr goons squad (because of tinfoil)
"mynnnaMarch 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM
Erotica1 had an alt in a goon membercorp (or perhaps it was his main character, who knows) and when he brought attention to himself trying to brag about his actions we shot him in the head for it. " Good point. If something is too disgusting for Goons, it's probably something that's proscribed by every civilized society in the world. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
865
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:13:00 -
[825] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.
(a) There is no blackmail here. ie blackmail requires the threat of information reveal, where Erotica upfront reveals to the user that the bonus room is recorded and may be rebroadcast.
(b) in order to be extorted of something, you need to own the something, and CCP plainly defines ingame assets as stuff you don't own.
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Jack Lennox
Killing With a Smile
32
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:13:00 -
[826] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Well, you lied to her. What happened to him is the following by analogy: Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be. A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return. Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one. She complies and gives him her lollipop. The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley. Your daughter thinks that "but he is still holding my lollipop! and maybe its true that I will still get the second one". So she complies and follows him down the dark alleyway. There suddenly more grown men appear, and begin demanding that she performs various degrading and humiliating activities in order to get back her lollipop. I leave the rest to your imagination. That is what happened here.
Ewwwww no, absolutely not
KWAS is now recruiting!-á Incursion Running, L4 Missions, Orca boosts for mining, and small gang WH PvE/PvP |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
209
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:15:00 -
[827] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.
No money changed hands.
Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence
Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2398
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:15:00 -
[828] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: What happened to him is the following by analogy:
Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.
A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.
Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one. She complies and gives him her lollipop.
The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.
That is what is happening here.
I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. At best its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Dave Stark
4609
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:15:00 -
[829] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Next we shall blog about the reading of Erotic Fan Fiction over mumble while structure bashing and how its killing Eve!
this type of smut must be stamped out! |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
257
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:17:00 -
[830] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US. Are you serious?! I loled for real Seriously
Hey, to be perfectly fair his statment is perfectly correct.
Is it applicable to this conversation? That is questionable. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
210
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:17:00 -
[831] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: What happened to him is the following by analogy:
Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.
A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.
Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one. She complies and gives him her lollipop.
The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.
That is what is happening here.
I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.
Both of those quotes are just wrong. I feel violated. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2401
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:18:00 -
[832] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.
Oh aren't you clever. That line of reasoning doesn't count however. CCP owns everything. If you own 100 plex, you have no right to sell those to your friend for RL, despite what he may be willing to pay for them. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2548
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:18:00 -
[833] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.
No money changed hands.
Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence
Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.
Once its turned into Isk it cant be turned back and so has no cash value Pretty sure CCP is clear about that
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
678
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:19:00 -
[834] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: .... Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context.
Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately). ... He is forced, by coercion applying duress, to follow into that out of game context. ..
Online gaming lawyer is fail fawyer....
Contract law: Offer, Acceptance, Consideration and "Volenti non fit injuria"
Offer: "If you give me all your assets, you can play the bonus round for a chance to quadruple it" Acceptance: Client sends Erotica1 all his assets. Consideration: Erotica1 gave the client 2 hours of her time performing bonus round activities and giving the client 'a chance' at quadrupling his submitted fees.
Regarding the 'quality' of a contract or received consideration....
VNFI: "if someone willingly places themselves in a position where harm might result, knowing that some degree of harm might result, they are not able to bring a claim against the other party in tort or delict"
tldr; This was not a legal contract, but a gaming roleplay, but even if it WAS played out in the real world as a real contract, the client would still be SOL. The contract was completed based on offer, acceptance and consideration being realized, and it is NOT the role of the law (or CCP) to measure the quality of received consideration, nor to protect stupid people from striking stupid contracts. This is why contracts have lots of fine printy things in them people should read BEFORE giving their acceptance.
Let the buyer beware. Hope the client uses this valuable in-game lesson in his real life future, for in truth Erotica1 may have saved this guy from some REAL life heartache in the future, and did him a SERVICE...
That's HTFU, bitches.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
458
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:19:00 -
[835] - Quote
After reading this threadnaught, The bunnies think you are all nuts.... |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:19:00 -
[836] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.
I suppose you could argue that extortion/blackmail are a form of breach of contract. But that is why you are not a lawyer. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10581
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:20:00 -
[837] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Jill Chastot wrote:Also for the grr goons squad (because of tinfoil)
"mynnnaMarch 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM
Erotica1 had an alt in a goon membercorp (or perhaps it was his main character, who knows) and when he brought attention to himself trying to brag about his actions we shot him in the head for it. " Good point. If something is too disgusting for Goons, it's probably something that's proscribed by every civilized society in the world.
There is more to it than that. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
425
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:20:00 -
[838] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Just trying to follow your logic that goes from someone willingly participating with the ability to quit at ANY time to harrasement. Again, the same as a con. Doesn't make it not a con. This is not a complicated idea to grasp friend.
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Your follow ups indicate to me that you're real problem was with the scam all along. Maybe you need less indicating and following, and better reading comprehension. When you start to imagine things never said, you're losing the plot.
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Feel free to correct my misconceptions. I'll happily let any clarification you make stand for your opinion on the subject. "I will assert nonsense and shift the burden on to you."
Ok. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17457
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:20:00 -
[839] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.
No money changed hands.
Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence
Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid. Umm no. ISK, PLEX and AURUM have no real world value, they can not be exchanged for real world currencies, legally anyway. When you give CCP money for a PLEX or AURUM you exchange that money for ingame assets, once those assets are delivered CCPs contract with you for those items is fulfilled. What happens to them afterwards is entirely the buyers responsibility.
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Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2401
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:21:00 -
[840] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Batelle wrote:I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer. Both of those quotes are just wrong. I feel violated.
well, I'm not the one claiming to be a lawyer, are you? Am i wrong about a verbal agreement constituting a contract or am I wrong about the lollipop analogy being completely appropriate?
An agreement made in Eve, or an agreement concerning the transference of eve assets, obviously does not constitute a contract. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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