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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
868
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:46:00 -
[2641] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:--- Those are all false assertions and misrepresentations. I have never said I would enjoy his suffering, either physically or from having his account revoked.
On Page 4 you claimed it would be hilarious to see him cry and rage at having his accounts banned.
That appears very clearly to be a case of enjoying seeing his accounts banned. There is no false assertion or misrepresentation on my part. That's what you wrote.
You also wrote on multiple occasions that you would laugh and applaud seeing him get kicked in the head.
That appears very clearly to be a case of enjoying his physical suffering. There is no false assertion or misrepresentation on my part. This start on page 6. That's what you wrote. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
623
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:46:00 -
[2642] - Quote
How's my favorite thread? 133 pages!? I think when I went to sleep last night it was around 40. Have we solved all the problems yet? Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
879
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:46:00 -
[2643] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Something that I always wonder about such threadnaughts, is how much of it is a small handful of very prolific posters driving the post count, compared to number of posters having an opinion.
Say the mods are following the thread, there is little way one person can keep track; I do wonder if they have tools to "deconstruct" the thread and get a feel for how many people are really talking. Just as an example, imagine if the mods could pull out all Kaarous and Salvos posts (no offense guys, you are just good examples), and see how many pages the thread drops by just from those two poster alone. CCP has tools to count posts by account at least. I'd be surprised if they couldn't do it by registered email address too. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Clara Pond
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:48:00 -
[2644] - Quote
Icylce wrote: Even if we assume u can win the game, the way it is constructed is worrying to say at least. Erotica basically pays for the right to harras a person and trample his dignity as human beeing and then on top of it makes this humilation public.
No, the client volunteers his dignity in exchange for satisfying his greed. He can leave any time and chooses not to. And many, many people have come through the bonus round with their dignity unaltered or even enhanced - look for the recent 6 hour bonus round client, who had every escrow agent cheering at his rock-solid humanity, humour and decency.
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Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:48:00 -
[2645] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Agata Matahari wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Agata Matahari wrote:Can someone link Sankhor's character here? I want to give him his lost money back. He has an alt now named Edgar Suit. and how exactly is his main spelled? No clue, I think he biomassed.
sry i had to lol here. sry |
Moloney
Krannon of Sherwood Carthage Empires
41
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:49:00 -
[2646] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tuscor wrote:Just ban Erotica1. The community does not need poisonous twats like that - and I for one am happy for the sandbox and 'emergent gameplay' to take second seat to cleaning the community of such filth. People talk about gays in very similar terms to the ones you have used in your post. Come to that, so have insane monogonadal austrian dictators.
Your reference to gays implies that this form of torture (erotica 1s actions) is acceptable by a human but currently misunderstood.
There is no misunderstanding here. The actions are blatent, the actions are in no way positive to any persons involves and there is no child on the planet that carries out these actions in view of a proud parent.
Or are you saying that people are correct to speak of gay people like this? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3672
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:49:00 -
[2647] - Quote
It was funny how fast that worked. I don't think it was you, Agata, but someone just sent me 200mil. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
15
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:49:00 -
[2648] - Quote
To scam people. It is a major part of the game. And it is fine.
But to act like a sociopath behind the safety of a computer screen? Not cool, and it gives EvE a horrible name in the eyes of non-players.
Frankly, I wouldn't want to be apart of a community like that. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:50:00 -
[2649] - Quote
Agata Matahari wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Agata Matahari wrote:Can someone link Sankhor's character here? I want to give him his lost money back. He has an alt now named Edgar Suit. and how exactly is his main spelled?
You are about to get scammed.
*** Edit. too late.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It was funny how fast that worked. I don't think it was you, Agata, but someone just sent me 200mil. |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:50:00 -
[2650] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It was funny how fast that worked. I don't think it was you, Agata, but someone just sent me 200mil.
LMFAO
i did not send 200mill |
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2832
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:50:00 -
[2651] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Something that I always wonder about such threadnaughts, is how much of it is a small handful of very prolific posters driving the post count, compared to number of posters having an opinion.
Say the mods are following the thread, there is little way one person can keep track; I do wonder if they have tools to "deconstruct" the thread and get a feel for how many people are really talking. Just as an example, imagine if the mods could pull out all Kaarous and Salvos posts (no offense guys, you are just good examples), and see how many pages the thread drops by just from those two poster alone. Not to mention the number of alts and other sock puppets used to manufacture a mood for support for or against this or that one. Who knows, maybe it's 100 pages of one person arguing among himself with a large number of accounts. We will never truly know. Deconstructing a thread like this is next to impossible. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
868
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:51:00 -
[2652] - Quote
Moloney wrote:Or are you saying that people are correct to speak of gay people like this?
No he wasn't saying it is correct. Malcanis specifically linked it to the recent laws and discussion in the Russian Federation.
You only have to look at some of the statements of President Putin to see the truth of what he was pointing to. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2820
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:52:00 -
[2653] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Don't dodge that question, Salvos Shokar. You are unaware of the fact that Pollard informed me earlier this day that he has a personal policy of deleting evemail before reading it.
That's not what I said. I said my personal policy was to remove attempts of private contact by people I don't personally know who I am involved in public debate with. You should try reading what I said, I explained why quite clearly. I think if you have anything to say to me in regards to that debate, you can say it publicly where its relevant. If it's not in regards to the debate, then you have nothing to say to me that matters. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
226
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:52:00 -
[2654] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote: Not to mention the number of alts and other sock puppets used to manufacture a mood for support for or against this or that one. Who knows, maybe it's 100 pages of one person arguing among himself with a large number of accounts. We will never truly know. Deconstructing a thread like this is next to impossible.
Not that much... First they can search posts by IP address then they can see connections via payment methods (credit cards\ main buying plex to their alts etc....). "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
671
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:53:00 -
[2655] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:--
Yes, its regrettable. What necessitates it is the deliberate dishonesty and misrepresentation that is the only purpose of some posters here. They want to derail the thread and tackle any person they perceive as threats to their own interests by means of attacking them with immaterial irrelevancy and flat out false implications.
I'm gratified every-time I see a new poster. I really am and a lot of the stuff from those one-time posters is very very good. (except the obvious alts of the above-mentioned).
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LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
15
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:53:00 -
[2656] - Quote
First we have Mittani encouraging people to get some miner to commit suicide on a microphone at fanfest.
Then we have sadistic perverts abusing others over computers.
Why is this **** tolerated??? |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
141
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:55:00 -
[2657] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
I figured that one out (granted, that was 110 pages or so back, so can hardly blame you for not seeing it).
Its the perception of legitimacy. Ero's rep has always been that he does not appear to scam. If he ended things the second he got all the targets stuff, he would be committing a scam. By driving proceedings until the contestant "voluntarily" gives up, he can claim in full honesty that the contestant lost fairly, and was not scammed.
Sure, its subjective, but that strikes me as a significant motivation in this game where perceptions of what occurred often overules the truth of what occured.
Thank you! At least a reason other than pure sadism.
I'd plead to at least voluntarily limit these bonus rounds. Just scam him after max. half an hour.
Keep it focused on assets. |
Lucretia DeWinter
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
113
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 -
[2658] - Quote
To address Sibyyl's direct questions:
Sibyyl wrote:The service of ISK doubling itself is pretty doubtful in terms of fidelity. You can't argue that anyone should trust what happens in an ISK doubling transaction. Someone is offering to double your cash. Never mind how ludicrous that sounds in real life, in EVE it is a big, big gamble.
In this case, Sohkar is crossing that boundary. You argue that ISK is not just funny money, it has emotional and psychological value. I agree with that. But this ISK which has emotional value WAS VOLUNTARILY HANDED OVER. This handing over was not under duress, it was motivated purely by greed. You might argue that addiction to gambling may have played a part, and maybe Erotica 1 should be held to the same standards as a casino, but I think that's a different debate altogether.
I'm going to repeat this, since some folks are missing this point: Jumping into teamspeak is a direct result of conscious, voluntary actions on Sohkar's part.
And if this was the extent of what happened here, I would have no problem with any of it. A punter gambled his ISK and lost. This ties in with the next point below.
Quote:Inside the game, even with logs, CCP would never refund Sohkar of a single ISK. In fact, the act of scamming inside the game would be backed up by the current rules. Why does it matter if it's "external communications"? Sohkar has no extra (or any missing) shield from the consequences.
Correct. And rightly so. CCP should not reimburse people for doing silly things like choosing to hand over their in-game money or items. It matters if it extends outside the game because within, chats and trades are logged and can be investigated. Not for purposes of reimbursal, but to investigate if an ethical breach of the EULA has occurred and action should be taken against characters using racial slurs, harassment, threats of violence etc.
Quote:This is my primary objection against the witch hunt in this thread. Erotica 1 isn't a particularly nice person. He is shrewd, manipulative, and compelling. But the fact that you may not like him, or that his methods are particularly effective against some people does not change these facts: 1. Sohkar initiated the situation by sending ISK a *second* time 2. Sohkar chose to be in the voice comms by pressing the call button on Teamspeak 3. He could at any point accept his ISK losses. You cannot argue that ISK has MORE emotional and psychological value than real world things. Even Sohkar might put more value in the relationship he has with his wife and kids than ISK in the game. If so, he should MORE EASILY be able to accept an ISK loss than breaking his own physical furniture. If he is not, I will argue that this is a psychological condition that you can't blame Erotica 1 for exacerbating. The guy has his priorities wrong.
To relate this as an analogy, the distinction I'm advocating is that EVE assets can have as real a perceived value as any other asset. This is why we get that adrenaline shake in EVE combat and that genuine sense of loss sometimes when our stuff gets blowed up. That a real life victim of fraud or extortion 'chooses' to give the perpetrator their assets doesn't mean they're not a victim.
Yes, Sohkar should have realised what was going on, chalk up the loss, limit the damage and go on with his game. But it's not just greed at work here. Yes, that's the initial hook, but then the skillful social and psychological manipulation results in the humiliation of a person and not of a character in a game.
I would not argue that maybe some people take this attachment too seriously and assign too high a value to their virtual space wealth, but that the effect that these virtual assets can be put to in manipulation can be no different to me asking to look at your iPhone and then holding onto it unless you sing for me. Or get your wife to plead for it. You could give it up and go get a new iPhone easily enough.
Quote:I will argue here that Jester himself has crossed into an unacceptable line of behavior. This incident may just be a proverbial dirty laundry of EVE's. Jester is doing the game and the community a disservice by throwing it out there for everyone to see, without actually providing an intellectual analysis of what happened. This is for the community to figure out and for CCP to govern, not for Jester to polish his own blog hits or push his own CSM agenda forward.
Agreed. I bolded the part in your quote that I think is indisputable. I believe this is the point of this discussion (which maybe would not have occurred had Jester not publicised it)
Quote:Is it morally reprehensible, or criminally actionable, or involves manipulation in any significant psychological or physical way?
You've got to be kidding me if you say yes. Go listen to a Jerky Boys tape if you haven't been out and about.
Well, there's the rub. I believe it is morally reprehensible because I believe it crosses into the meta-game and ceases being about space pixels, a character and funny money and stuff in a spaceship game and becomes about the targeted debasement of a person for amusement.
Equally, I do believe that the racial and threatening outbursts are equally reprehensible (even though apologies were made.)
With 'edgy' comedians or musicians (I'm a fan of the Doug Anthony All Stars myself) they have been plenty of situations where they have gotten themselves into legal trouble because they crossed a line from entertainment and implicit consent into offense (as a legal term rather than personal taste)
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Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
623
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 -
[2659] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:First we have Mittani encouraging people to get some miner to commit suicide on a microphone at fanfest.
Then we have sadistic perverts abusing others over computers.
Why is this **** tolerated???
Why are you here? Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
237
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 -
[2660] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:First we have Mittani encouraging people to get some miner to commit suicide on a microphone at fanfest.
Then we have sadistic perverts abusing others over computers.
Why is this **** tolerated???
Because no one died yet. Just wait.
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
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Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2824
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 -
[2661] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:First we have Mittani encouraging people to get some miner to commit suicide on a microphone at fanfest.
Then we have sadistic perverts abusing others over computers.
Why is this **** tolerated???
Yes, you're absolutely right, the abuse, death threats and racism that Sokhar used on Ero should not be tolerated. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 12:57:00 -
[2662] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That's not what I said. I said my personal policy was to remove attempts of private contact by people I don't personally know who I am involved in public debate with. Fair enough on the correction. But regardless, you will never know the contents of that mail now which is regrettable. And as your to personal policy, I chose to reciprocate with my own of ignoring your posts from here on. That letter was my attempt to reconcile a personal difference with you unrelated to ontopic discussion. You trashed it. That leaves me this option.
Please respect it as I have to respect yours, and do not address me again. I will not address you either. |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:58:00 -
[2663] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:First we have Mittani encouraging people to get some miner to commit suicide on a microphone at fanfest.
Then we have sadistic perverts abusing others over computers.
Why is this **** tolerated??? Yes, you're absolutely right, the abuse, death threats and racism that Sokhar used on Ero should not be tolerated.
I think i heard an apology at the end of sokhar |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
870
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:58:00 -
[2664] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Yes, you're absolutely right, the abuse, death threats and racism that Sokhar used on Ero should not be tolerated. The abuse, death threats, wishes of disease in real life and racism of no one should be tolerated. There is no need to single out Sokhur in relation to that.
It occurs on a daily basis in local chat, private conversations and evemails. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
237
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:59:00 -
[2665] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:That's not what I said. I said my personal policy was to remove attempts of private contact by people I don't personally know who I am involved in public debate with. Fair enough on the correction. But regardless, you will never know the contents of that mail now which is regrettable. And as your to personal policy, I chose to reciprocate with my own of ignoring your posts from here on. That letter was my attempt to reconcile a personal difference with you unrelated to ontopic discussion. You trashed it. That leaves me this option. Please respect it as I have to respect yours, and do not address me again. I will not address you either.
Then who is going to push this thread forward? ;) Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:00:00 -
[2666] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:---. Nowhere have I said I would enjoy his suffering. Nor would I.
I understand the distinction is difficult to perceive, but it is there nonetheless. In no instance would I take enjoyment from his suffering. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2824
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:01:00 -
[2667] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:That's not what I said. I said my personal policy was to remove attempts of private contact by people I don't personally know who I am involved in public debate with. Fair enough on the correction. But regardless, you will never know the contents of that mail now which is regrettable. And as your to personal policy, I chose to reciprocate with my own of ignoring your posts from here on. That letter was my attempt to reconcile a personal difference with you unrelated to ontopic discussion. You trashed it. That leaves me this option. Please respect it as I have to respect yours, and do not address me again. I will not address you either.
I don't need to reconcile anything with you. You think we're enemies? I have no enemies. I have no friends. I'm taking an entirely neutral standpoint. If you want to be friends, come find me in game and put up a fight, show me what you've got. Earn my respect. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1625
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:01:00 -
[2668] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Yes, you're absolutely right, the abuse, death threats and racism that Sokhar used on Ero should not be tolerated. The abuse, death threats, wishes of disease in real life and racism of no one should be tolerated. There is no need to single out Sokhur in relation to that. It occurs on a daily basis in local chat, private conversations and evemails.
But as we're learned from this thread, scamming someone out of some imaginary currency and asking them to sing songs is far far worse. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jack Lennox
Killing With a Smile
35
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:01:00 -
[2669] - Quote
Everyone hop on the bus to keep sucking Jester's ****. You people think this is the first time the bonus room has been run? The second? Third? Fourth? These have been going on for months and has been thrown all over minerbumping.com and the EVE-O forums and no one has cared until now. (Links toward the bottom)
Lets go back to the thing that started this "outcry:" not the bonus round itself, but the article from Jester. You've made this into a much bigger deal than it should have been. You pretend to be sympathetic to the "victim" but you are only using him as a means of trying to hurt Erotica 1, whom you clearly have some sort of vendetta against.
People have made the point that this recording is now up on the internet, to the further embarrassment of the "victim." Google, "Erotica 1 bonus room soundcloud." The only reason that so many people have listened to it (or even heard about it) is solely because of Jester. You pretend to be on his side, but you are actually "worsening" (by your own definition) his so called "suffering." Congrats. You, Jester, do not give a **** about the "victim," you only care about yourself.
Here's those links I promised
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=291859
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/11/a-double-life-part-1.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/hydra-headed-lies-part-4.html
KWAS is now recruiting!-á Incursion Running, L4 Missions, Orca boosts for mining, and small gang WH PvE/PvP |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
870
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:01:00 -
[2670] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Nowhere have I said I would enjoy his suffering. What is laughter an expression of?
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
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