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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
27
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:46:00 -
[2731] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.
The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important.
^^ This
Also most people who do read the forums knew about this a month ago as I stated earlier... Which is why I'm wondering why the 9 million page thread now and not when this hit the forums last month. As stated before I think their is more to this story then what we are being led to believe.
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:46:00 -
[2732] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Utterly false. I myself have had my isk doubled by Erotica1 twice. It's perfectly legit, provided you can actually read.
First of all, the fact that you had your isk doubled, does not mean that all had their isk doubled. Your claim to legitimising this is only by your own anectodal evidence.
Second, it does not disprove my assessment of the mechanics of the scam, as a designed selection process for potential stupid or labile victims who are unlikely to be capable of fulfilling the out of game demands (for the enjoyment of sadists listening in), are stupid enough to believe it in the first place and finally who are most likely to explode in emotional outburst sooner or later in the Bonus Round situation.
But ok. Prove it. Where is the recording?
Are you speaking about doubling, or the Bonus Room now? |
Kaivar Lancer
Biological Mechanical Unlimited
472
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:47:00 -
[2733] - Quote
YZertim wrote:CCP should think about the impact on the game if this sort of thing was covered by mainstream media.
This would be awesome. More players to Eve. :) |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:48:00 -
[2734] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.
The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important.
Its not he eve players that we need to worry about. It wasn't the eve players that got Mittani banned, its the way it gets reported out by the gaming media sites / main stream media. It only takes them to do some shitposting that will give CCP heartburn like what happend with the Fanfest incident for them to take what ever action they deem best for the protection of their integrity and reputation in the industry.
Our opinions are worth very little in this case, those of the outside world are what will sway this one. CCP likely don't want to clean shop on this, but I feel they will be manipulated to the point of no return by outside influences and that doesn't mean the CSM or the drivel we all post here. |
Clara Pond
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:50:00 -
[2735] - Quote
Druthlen wrote:You seem to forget there is a hostage in all of this. The persons online assets. Which are forfeited if he doesn't play along. He believes at least for a time he can recover his stuff if he goes along with the humiliating hazing like activities.
Which he had to go to some considerable effort to willingly hand over. Personal responsibility is hard, isn't it?
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Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas
273
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:50:00 -
[2736] - Quote
YZertim wrote:CCP should think about the impact on the game if this sort of thing was covered by mainstream media.
It will be Don't Panic.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3684
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:50:00 -
[2737] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Utterly false. I myself have had my isk doubled by Erotica1 twice. It's perfectly legit, provided you can actually read. First of all, the fact that you had your isk doubled, does not mean that all had their isk doubled. Your claim to legitimising this is only by your own anectodal evidence. But ok. Prove it. Where is the recording? Are you speaking about doubling, or the Bonus Room now?
Of course not everyone has had their isk doubled. If you fail to play by the rules of the game(which are pretty much just reading comprehension), you lose.
Duh.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
27
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:50:00 -
[2738] - Quote
Everybody needs to stop assuming that the victims are perfectly healthy minded individuals.
"You deserve it if you fall for THAT scam."
"He could of left whenever he wanted!"
You have no idea who that person is, or what their life is right now.
He could be impaired someway mentally or not in the right state of mind. Does that make it right to abuse them for personal pleasure? |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:51:00 -
[2739] - Quote
Clara Pond wrote:Lucretia DeWinter wrote:If The House had already taken all his money and fed it into the slot machine, and told him the only way he was getting it back would be to win the costume contest dressed as a chicken singing Waltzing Matilda whilst streaming live to the internet, then it would be more accurate. I loled IRL. Quite so, and were our contestant to willingly suit up and start flapping, we would not say he was being subjected to torture. We would say that he was a consenting adult making a choice, and possibly even having fun doing it.
I think you have both just accurately described reality TV |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3684
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:52:00 -
[2740] - Quote
Upde wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.
The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important. Its not he eve players that we need to worry about. It wasn't the eve players that got Mittani banned, its the way it gets reported out by the gaming media sites / main stream media. It only takes them to do some shitposting that will give CCP heartburn like what happend with the Fanfest incident for them to take what ever action they deem best for the protection of their integrity and reputation in the industry. Our opinions are worth very little in this case, those of the outside world are what will sway this one. CCP likely don't want to clean shop on this, but I feel they will be manipulated to the point of no return by outside influences and that doesn't mean the CSM or the drivel we all post here.
And after you realize this, you need to ask yourself: "Why did Ripard Teg specifically go to all these lengths to start this up, long after the actual event had occurred?" Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
689
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:52:00 -
[2741] - Quote
When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?
With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...
You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?
It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...
Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?
tldr; HTFU
Would you like to know more? |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
623
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:53:00 -
[2742] - Quote
Krants wrote:I hope that CCP comes down hard on this. If not outright banning perpetrators then at least modifying EULA in a way so this would be considered a major offence in the future.
I've got 2 problems with the whole bonus room concept: 1. It uses EvE ecosystem as a honeypot. It filters out the weak and susceptible so that they could be coer... persuaded to join out of game voice comms. 2. They use TS, an out of game, unsupervised and unpoliced solution, to abuse victims for hours and hours. If you recollect two weeks ago CCP contacted a law enforcement to possibly prevent a suicide. Why? Because a player had announced in local chat that he'd blow his brains out. It was all it took for CCP to intervene. Now with this TS "bonus room" we've got an unsupervised system that consist of a victim and X number of perpetrators who's main goal is to make emotional abuse last as long as possible. And they will do what is necessary to debase the victim psychologically so that he/she would break for the lulz. Do you believe that "bonus room" perpetrators would contact CCP or law enforcement if a victim would threaten self-harm, like really?
You can scam all you want in EvE sandbox, but the moment you use EvE as a tool for out of game coercion your rights for "emergent gameplay" should end.
Because you can't handle Eve Online and need CCP to hold your hand??
You fail so miserably to see that all participants chose to stay and in no way were forced against their will to continue. Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:54:00 -
[2743] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:--- You overlooked several questions in my post. Please address them.
Have you participated in the Bonus Room?
If so, where is the recording? |
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:55:00 -
[2744] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:I think you have both just accurately described reality TV
The contestants are informed and consent to their actions being recorded and then distributed into the media/public domain. As far as im aware bonus room makes no attempt to let the victim know they are being recorded at the start. Which infact breaks laws in many country's Dont just think outside the box, Live outside of it... |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1576
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:56:00 -
[2745] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.
The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important. This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree.
288. Thats the number of people participating in this thread last I looked at the stats. That's not even a majority of the Eve players logged into Eve right now. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Katkon Darnok
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:56:00 -
[2746] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it is okay.
This man speaks the truth! I don't know whether cyber bullying is illegal, but it is certainly morally reprehensible. CCP needs to take decisive, aggressive and swift action to avoid creating the perception of supporting the scammer's actions through inaction. Time to stop hiding behind the "it's just like real life" banner and protect the community from itself, and boost the game's reputation. Sure, it won't please everyone, BUT it will please many. Moreover, it's the right thing to do - and CCP and every individual on the face of the earth with a decent moral compass knows it.
Let's put it this way: imagine, for a second, if this was brought up on mainstream media and discussed on the BBC, NBC etc. What do you think would happen? CCP would RUSH to take action to save the game's reputation, as the negative PR effect would otherwise be traumatic for the game - and new subscriptions. The right course of action is so incredibly obvious - from both a reputational and economic perspective - that I'm agitated at having to write this comment.
C'mon CCP. Do the right thing, and stop hiding behind inaction.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1789
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:56:00 -
[2747] - Quote
This thread is definitely proof highsec needs to be nerfed. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3688
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:56:00 -
[2748] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:--- You overlooked several questions in my post. Please address them. Have you participated in the Bonus Room? If so, where is the recording?
You said something along the lines of "The entire scam is just there to select victims".
And my response is to tell you that the isk doubling service is not a scam. I know full well it's not, because I have had my isk doubled successfully, because I can actually read.
In order to even get offered a bonus room event, you have to specifically seek out E1 and engage the isk doubling service. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:57:00 -
[2749] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And after you realize this, you need to ask yourself: "Why did Ripard Teg specifically go to all these lengths to start this up, long after the actual event had occurred?"
Why not?
Would you like to buy a nice shiny tinfoil hat? |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas
273
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:57:00 -
[2750] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:YZertim wrote:CCP should think about the impact on the game if this sort of thing was covered by mainstream media. This would be awesome. More players to Eve. :)
More wankers to eve
Don't Panic.
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Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
49
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:57:00 -
[2751] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?
With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...
You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?
It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...
Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?
tldr; HTFU
I agree that some of the words regarding this subject is a little misplaces. 'Torture' is one of them, IMO. That said the actions of Ero and friends is reprehensible and I would like CCP to take a long hard look at it all and publicly inform us what they think of this. I'm fine with any ruling, really. I might not agree with it, but I will be fine with it as long as it is publicly explained.
And no, there is no 'or else'. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3688
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:58:00 -
[2752] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And after you realize this, you need to ask yourself: "Why did Ripard Teg specifically go to all these lengths to start this up, long after the actual event had occurred?" Why not? Would you like to buy a nice shiny tinfoil hat?
No, but it would be nice to get an answer from our wonderful CSM representative, if he has the intestinal fortitude to do something besides sling things at people from behind his blog. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Clara Pond
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:58:00 -
[2753] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:You have no idea who that person is, or what their life is right now. He could be impaired someway mentally or not in the right state of mind. Does that make it right to abuse them for personal pleasure?
Quite right, you have no idea of these things in an MMO. They are a capsuleer name, an alliance ticker, a shiptype. They are a mark, a target. The person you undercut with your market trade may have been on their last ISK and suffering manic depression. Who knows what your callous undercut could trigger? You argue that people are responsible for the jilted lover screaming "if you don't take me back I'll kill myself". People are not responsible for the reactions of others.
If you want to argue for compassion, I'm right behind you. But that is a different thing. Some people just don't have the intellectual or emotional maturity to interact with other humans in a competitive environment and the rest of us are not responsible for their reactions.
Look at the login screen: Online Interactions Not Rated By The ESRB. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:58:00 -
[2754] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:--- Just because it seems you are stupid or labile enough to fall victim to the scams selection process, and not realise it, does not mean it is still not a selection process.
Let me repeat what I said earlier, so you can re-read it perhaps more attentivelly:
The entire scam, from beginning to end, which escalates to outside the game, is a selection process for victims.
Only those stupid or otherwise impaired enough to participate in the Bonus Round, ever approach Erotica1's doubling service in the first place. These stupid or labile victims are then exploited for purposes of enjoying their suffering in the out of game Bonus Room event by Erotica1 and his associated escrow functionaries, and other people inclined to enjoying the sound of another persons distress and suffering over the voice channel. This, ofc, after they have already been (legitimately) parted from ALL their assets.
It is predatory on the community of EVE, and its entire scam structure is designed to attract and entrap those who are stupid or labile enough to A) not be likely to overcome the ridiculous and asinine hurdles and demands placed on them in the Bonus Room process (for the enjoyment of all persons listening in) B) for some reason incapable of understanding that they are being exploited and taken advantage of in a malicious manner with harmful intent. C) Are most likely to become emotionally compromised under the duress and distress deliberately caused by the perpetrators, which aborts the Round and further feeds the sadistic joy of the listening participants.
Have you participated in the Bonus Round? If so, where is the recording? |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
11453
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:59:00 -
[2755] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?
With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...
You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?
It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...
Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?
tldr; HTFU
One difference between your young(tm) type bullying and current online(tm) type bullying, is that it's way way way harder to actually do something about it. Classic face to face bullying, you could try fight back by punching some sense into someone. It's much harder to smack someone in the face when they're anonymous behind a screen in a different country and can keep on doing stuff. So I wouldn't call it fair to compare the two types as if they were equal. But I fully understand your point.
/c
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
768
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:00:00 -
[2756] - Quote
Prie Mary wrote: As far as im aware bonus room makes no attempt to let the victim know they are being recorded at the start. Literally the first thing said in the recording is that it is being recorded. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 14:00:00 -
[2757] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:[quote=Krants]
Because you can't handle Eve Online and need CCP to hold your hand??
You fail so miserably to see that all participants chose to stay and in no way were forced against their will to continue.
That is irrelevant now. This whole situation will get eaten up by media channels and they will farm CCP tears and feast upon them. Eve hasn't exactly got the greatest rep in the gaming media circles and shitstorms like this are what shitposting journo's love. They will selectively publish the bits that support their "EVE is full of sociopaths" and push it out into the public domain. Then we all get reamed if CCP are then forced into a position where they have to make a public statement and effect change to game mechanics.
As a community we should probably do a better job of self policing so this kind of media tear harvesting doesn't happen and ensure we clean our own house up rather than it being a forced issue. Surely that would be better for us as gamers and the health of EVE ? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 14:00:00 -
[2758] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, but it would be nice to get an answer from our wonderful CSM representative, if he has the intestinal fortitude to do something besides sling things at people from behind his blog.
I suppose he just finally got around to writing it.
Would that not suffice as a reason? |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 14:01:00 -
[2759] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Everybody needs to stop assuming that the victims are perfectly healthy minded individuals.
"You deserve it if you fall for THAT scam."
"He could of left whenever he wanted!"
You have no idea who that person is, or what their life is right now.
He could be impaired someway mentally or not in the right state of mind. Does that make it right to abuse them for personal pleasure?
absolutely not
But lets be serious here. EVE isn't exactly WoW when it comes to the learning curve of the game. I really think that someone who was impaired enough to not have any idea what is going on around him would have an extremely hard time picking this game up, and would likely leave it out of frustration. Also he claims to be an air traffic controller... Not a job you get if your mentally deficient.
Lets face it, he got greedy, gambled and lost. That simple.
Does that make it right for erotica to treat a person in this matter regardless of circumstance? Absolutely not!!! Just dont expect anything to happen as this happened a while ago and was known to both CCP and the community long before this blog post or this thread.
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Katkon Darnok
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:01:00 -
[2760] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.
The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important. This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree. 288. Thats the number of people participating in this thread last I looked at the stats. That's not even a majority of the Eve players logged into Eve right now.
288 = statistical significance (actually, >32 makes for a statistically significant sample size). So, this thread is probably very representative of how the community feels - at least those that KNOW about the issue. And, at the risk of insulting your intelligence (not my intent), pls do bear in mind that most EVE players are probably not active on the forums, and probably only a small number of those that are have seen or are following this thread. |
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