Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 .. 254 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17511
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:20:00 -
[2881] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: 1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said. 2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said. 3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded. 4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder. 5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.
1: There is no evidence to the contrary either 2: See above 3: See below 4: Implied consent, legal dictionary definition as you're so fond of throwing out legal terms. 5: See above.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5386
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:20:00 -
[2882] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Would that 3rd party not vphave to confirm consent from you and the pereon you are calling in order to do so? Firstly consent was given as far as I can tell, secondly you're blindly ignoring that in real life there are 3rd parties who can, and often do record private phone calls without either parties consent; you may even have heard of these 3rd parties, or voted for them, they're called U.S. government. Fixed it for u. Wow, if you think this only happens in the US do YOU have a lot to learn. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
683
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:21:00 -
[2883] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said. 2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said. 3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded. 4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder. 5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording. Please provide a link to the recording you are talking about, becuase it is obviously not the one in the blog post being discussed.
It applies to Sohkar's recording.
None of the above can be confirmed from that recording. At the end, he does say "I know I am being recorded and this will be distributed", but that does not suffice to make it legal on the part of the recorder. These things have to be properly confirmed right at the start.
I realise this may seem silly to some people, but that is what most laws are on this matter. If you don't have the above confirmed from EVERY participant in the recording, it is illegal. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1576
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:21:00 -
[2884] - Quote
Upde wrote:Batelle wrote:Katkon Darnok wrote:...UNLESS you have reason to believe that the mix of people on the forums is unrepresentative of the feelings/moral compass of the community at large, in which case you could argue that the thread is suffering from selection bias. I suspect that's a weak argument, though. Have you ever actually spoken to an Eve player in-game? The forums are absolutely and unequivocally not representative. All this sample represents is the people that already post in GD, and I can tell you for my first 5 years in game, even when I was an active forum poster, I never read GD. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ero1 and equivalent cronies are just trying to break your EVE, and nothing more.
So were the goons, but CCP didn't ban them (despite repeated calls to), and now they're model citizens. And they literally were trying to break and destroy Eve. But the goons did it differently they actually used the game mechanics in the game. Hulkageddon, Burn Jita, Ice interdictions, corp recruitment scams, suicide ganks, corporate espionage, thats all in the EVE universe, what happened in that recording in certain points was not in keeping with being "in the universe" or even the game. They are 2 different scenarios, the only real out of game faux pas they got pulled for was mittani gate in 2012 which got rinsed in public exactly the same way as this. So i;d say comparing this to the GSF in game actions is not even in the same ballpark.
So if Erotica 1 had used Eve Voice instead of TS everything would be jake right? I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Shinya Shazih
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:23:00 -
[2885] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP can ban whoever they want, whenever they want.
Play this out loud on speakers at the next Fanfest. Title it as "Emergent Gameplay" and proudly present in audio as an example of the finest EVE currently has to offer.
I double dare you.
Yeah where's ccp's promotional video Emergent Gameplay featuring Erotica1's sound cloud? Maybe the Devs could play the different characters with funny hats
Mashiekh of Tleilax - Director of Industry-á |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
572
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:23:00 -
[2886] - Quote
http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow
Should we also ban the people behind this? |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3944
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:23:00 -
[2887] - Quote
I'm beginning to think that Internet Lawyer degree I have was a waste of money. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:24:00 -
[2888] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:None of the above can be confirmed from that recording. At the end, he does say "I know I am being recorded and this will be distributed", QED.
These things are confirmed at the start so that anything said can be kept/distributed, rather than risking disagreement part way though. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:24:00 -
[2889] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Upde wrote:Batelle wrote:Katkon Darnok wrote:...UNLESS you have reason to believe that the mix of people on the forums is unrepresentative of the feelings/moral compass of the community at large, in which case you could argue that the thread is suffering from selection bias. I suspect that's a weak argument, though. Have you ever actually spoken to an Eve player in-game? The forums are absolutely and unequivocally not representative. All this sample represents is the people that already post in GD, and I can tell you for my first 5 years in game, even when I was an active forum poster, I never read GD. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ero1 and equivalent cronies are just trying to break your EVE, and nothing more.
So were the goons, but CCP didn't ban them (despite repeated calls to), and now they're model citizens. And they literally were trying to break and destroy Eve. But the goons did it differently they actually used the game mechanics in the game. Hulkageddon, Burn Jita, Ice interdictions, corp recruitment scams, suicide ganks, corporate espionage, thats all in the EVE universe, what happened in that recording in certain points was not in keeping with being "in the universe" or even the game. They are 2 different scenarios, the only real out of game faux pas they got pulled for was mittani gate in 2012 which got rinsed in public exactly the same way as this. So i;d say comparing this to the GSF in game actions is not even in the same ballpark. So if Erotica 1 had used Eve Voice instead of TS everything would be jake right?
He would be banned off the bat that's why (and they stated it many times in this thread) they took all neccesary precautions to dodge bannhammer. |
Drakast
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:24:00 -
[2890] - Quote
144 pages later and ive just proved to myself i will m*sturbate to anything.
if i told you i was psychotic, deranged and incarcerated for more than 20 years, for terrible crimes against society and i play this game every day from my jail cell, are you all going to shout and moan til i get banned? or does it already say somewhere that prisoners are not allowed to play eve?
there is a line to be drawn and its down to you lot to draw it. if you think ero deserves punishment then go out and form up a hell camp, band together and make his eve life short and pain filled
stop asking ccp to nanny you anymore than it has to. we live in the sandbox, if you dont like whats going on sort it out yourselves.
ero went too far (from what ive seen on this monster thread) sort him out. simple.
end of thread |
|
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cataclysmic Paradox
162
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:25:00 -
[2891] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow
Should we also ban the people behind this?
Derailment detected |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110604
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:25:00 -
[2892] - Quote
Batelle wrote:
So were the goons, but CCP didn't ban them (despite repeated calls to), and now they're model citizens. And they literally were trying to break and destroy Eve.
Burn Jita, Interdictions, etc, were not aimed at any particular individual. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
683
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:25:00 -
[2893] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:These things are confirmed at the start so that anything said can be kept/distributed, rather than risking disagreement part way though.
I'm sorry, but they are not, for the reasons I already outlined.
I know the perpetrators like to THINK they got this covered, but they don't. Sorry, thats just a legal fact. They half ass it. You have to confirm the consent both for recording AND distribution.
Neither of that happens in the recording. |
stoicfaux
4268
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:25:00 -
[2894] - Quote
Upde wrote:
torture / ransom / forcing are not even relevant words, they never were and never will be in this case. However you bet your arse that when it gets written up in the media those words will be there and then there will be hell to pay. The outside world will look on this and treat it in exactly the same way as those people that smack talk people on face book after their friend has died. The outside people cannot differentiate between those 2 cases.
That leaves CCP between a rock and a hard place. I woudl think this whole debacle boils down to a damage limitation exercise for CCP and a media management / community management exercise.
Pretty much this ^^. This isn't about what is legal or illegal. It isn't about whether the ToS was broken. It's not about how stupid people can be, or whether Erotica is running an "extreme" game/reality show or is just humiliating people for personal entertainment.
It's all about public perception from both the general public and the EVE community, specifically: "if trolls on the internet behaved in the real world as they did online, they would get beaten in the real world." Erotica1 appears to have crossed the boundary between "it's the internet, what did you expect?" to "that's horrible, how could someone do such a thing to another person?"
Scamming, tear extraction, humiliation, etc., is fine "in-game" (i.e. "on the internet.") It's NOT fine when it crosses into the "real world," thereby forcing polite society to take a stand and pass judgement on you as a human being. EVE, a game full of sociopathic players, doesn't need to be linked with real world sociopathic behavior in real people.
tl;dr - Sociopathic behavior by players in-game is fine because it's a game. Sociopathic behavior in the real world against real people is not fine and will get us harshly judged by society.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
573
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:26:00 -
[2895] - Quote
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow
Should we also ban the people behind this? Derailment detected
No just trying to find the line in the sand where we determine who and who should not be banned. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2427
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:26:00 -
[2896] - Quote
Upde wrote:Batelle wrote:What "media pressure" are you referring to or expecting to appear? There is no shitstorm. There is only a threadnaught. the same bile that happened after fanfest. The media will likely rake that up as a little reminder and then say that this behaviour has been allowed to proliferate and then use bonus room antics to further support their case. Which they of course would not be able to if it was never made public. You see thats where this all falls appart, its the old saying "its all a bit of fun untill someone loses an eye".
The fanfest incident is not really comparable. There are about half a dozen really good reasons why we shouldn't expect the reaction to this to be at all comparable to what happened at/after fanfest.
Upde wrote:are any of those parts directed at the in game character or the person driving the character.
You see this is why the grey line of in game / outgame meta gaming has been crossed and why there is going to be more than this threadnought with regards to a shitstorm.
I'm sure a line of some kind was crossed somewhere. But that doesn't mean CCP should do anything about it. Also, if I play eve with someone regularly because they're in my corp, and I take a dislike to that person, I'm definitely disliking the person, not the character. Eve is a game played by persons. We as RL people are literally game content. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Sibyyl
328
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:26:00 -
[2897] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Casinos have specific laws and regulations governing their behavior, as well as all other laws which apply. You *do* understand there is a massive difference in scale between any casino and Erotica 1's operation? Casinos are regulated because of this scale.. as opposed to a card game at your uncle's house (which probably sees more real life dollars than a bonus round with Erotica 1).
Your uncle's card game wouldn't be regulated, and neither should Erotica 1.
/Fÿ¡ Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
683
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:27:00 -
[2898] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: Casinos are regulated because of this scale. False.
And setting up gambling in your own home with other people is infact illegal in many jurisdictions, and even if allowed, is under strict provisions.
Everything is regulated. Including how you can and cannot behave on TS, and what you can and cannot do there.
There are laws covering all of this stuff. Mostly just nobody bothers to enforce them. But the laws are still there. The same applies to all these "grey areas" that Erotica1 is exploiting. They are not actually grey areas at all. |
Fade Toblack
Per.ly The 20 Minuters
71
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:28:00 -
[2899] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Fade Toblack wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:those items never belonged to him in the first place. They are property of CCP, as are all in game assets. Care to contract me all the CCP-owned stuff that appears in the wallets and hangars you have access to in-game then if it means nothing? I never said they mean nothing, I said they were not his property... which is entirely accurate. He literally only lost imaginary pixels that were not his to begin with. It is a setback to his success in a video game, nothing more. While that may understandably upset him a bit, he (and we all) should keep this firmly in the correct perspective.
So setup those contracts then, you'll only lose some imaginary pixels that are not yours to begin with.
You're presumably adult enough to accept the set-back and not get upset about it? |
Iso Anneto
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:29:00 -
[2900] - Quote
Seriously people? This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in to anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed. |
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:29:00 -
[2901] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:olan2005 wrote:3 - CCP need to implement a guideline policy for these situations .SCAMMING SHOULD STAY LEGAL , but PROLONGED TEAR EXTRACTION , should BE ADVISED AGAINST. It should be understood if you take it TOO FAR (as in this case) THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES They already have a policy on harassment and if anything, they should clarify what that means and include any particular boundary within the existing policy. To me that would be the neatest way to deal with this and then move on. No bans, just a line relating to harassment that is a little broader than it currently is. We don't need more protections, just clearer guidelines around boundary issues that help everyone determine when something should be stopped, not because CCP has a better moral compass than the players, but because things like the bonus room, asking ransom victims in game to sing, etc. should be allowed to continue as long as they comply.
AGREED , on the clearer guidelines. I think taking scamming activities outside of the game is another major issue here. Scamming rule should be added only allowing the use of in-game mechanisms for this activity would be the ideal way to deal with it. That way CCP have more control , and a clearer record of who did what , and when was it done. I do retain that punishment is due for the player scammers involved in this . THEY TOOK it too far in my opinion and some punishment like asset reversal and isk penalties are in order . But mostly I WOULD LIKE A PUBLIC CCP RESPONSE ON THIS. With a clear stance on this incident |
Mikey Aivo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:29:00 -
[2902] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said. 2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said. 3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded. 4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder. 5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording. Please provide a link to the recording you are talking about, becuase it is obviously not the one in the blog post being discussed. It applies to Sohkar's recording. None of the above can be confirmed from that recording. At the end, he does say "I know I am being recorded and this will be distributed", but that does not suffice to make it legal on the part of the recorder. These things have to be properly confirmed right at the start. I realise this may seem silly to some people, but that is what most laws are on this matter. If you don't have the above confirmed from EVERY participant in the recording, it is illegal. And this is exactly what is at the root of the problem with Erotica1's out of game activities. What laws govern them? Who is ensuring that the legal rights of the participants are being guaranteed? In-game CCP does that. But what about in T3? You can't act lawlessly just cos you are on a TS server.
When someone is recording in teamspeak theres a red dot to the right of their name. Also when you start recording the clinet say user has started recording. Both visual and audio. End of the day though thays ero1's ts server he can do whatever he wants on there and anyone who decides to join him has done so on their own free will. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:31:00 -
[2903] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Icylce wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Would that 3rd party not vphave to confirm consent from you and the pereon you are calling in order to do so? Firstly consent was given as far as I can tell, secondly you're blindly ignoring that in real life there are 3rd parties who can, and often do record private phone calls without either parties consent; you may even have heard of these 3rd parties, or voted for them, they're called U.S. government. Fixed it for u. Wow, if you think this only happens in the US do YOU have a lot to learn.
In England even the newspapers do it.
They did kind of get their fingers smacked when they got caught at it though.
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:31:00 -
[2904] - Quote
Iso Anneto wrote:Seriously people? This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in to anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed.
Thats like saying its the coppers fault for being shot , because he choose to be a police officer. The getting scammed is the victim fault. The Bonus room shenanigans is the fault of the scammers taking it too far . |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4523
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:32:00 -
[2905] - Quote
Drakast wrote:144 pages later and ive just proved to myself i will m*sturbate to anything.
if i told you i was psychotic, deranged and incarcerated for more than 20 years, for terrible crimes against society and i play this game every day from my jail cell, are you all going to shout and moan til i get banned? or does it already say somewhere that prisoners are not allowed to play eve?
there is a line to be drawn and its down to you lot to draw it. if you think ero deserves punishment then go out and form up a hell camp, band together and make his eve life short and pain filled
stop asking ccp to nanny you anymore than it has to. we live in the sandbox, if you dont like whats going on sort it out yourselves.
ero went too far (from what ive seen on this monster thread) sort him out. simple.
end of thread
I've worked alongside a lot of ex-cons and to bring ex-cons into this would be off the mark. The reason why I state that is because every ex-con I ever spoke to about their sentence pretty much said the same thing, to paraphrase "I know what I was doing when I did it and when I got caught I knew where I was going".
I have yet to see that kind of honesty from the Bonus Room Fetishists.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:32:00 -
[2906] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:They half ass it. You have to confirm the consent both for recording AND distribution. He consents to both. Saying otherwise won't make it so.
[img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
257
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:32:00 -
[2907] - Quote
Its OK buddy. We understand.
But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.
It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.
And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '
THEY WILL COME.
And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it. |
Sibyyl
328
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:33:00 -
[2908] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:False. True.
Two can play this meaningless game. You can also choose to write down a coherent response anytime you'd like.
/Fÿ¡ Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
625
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:34:00 -
[2909] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Some of you are disgusting human beings, especially those either advocating or condoning physical violence. The use of loaded words such as torture and a term for sexual molestation, that is filtered by the swear filter, to describe something, that while fairly deplorable, is within the realms of the rules (AFAIK) is inappropriate. To the people doing so I say get some perspective, better yet talk to a victim of torture or sexual assault and tell them that losing your internet spaceship pixels is the equivalent to what they've experienced, I'm sure you'll find them sympathetic You are indulging in a populist witch hunt, and are being carried by the mass hysteria that comes with such a hunt. War Kittens forum signature would seem to apply to some of you, it reads thus: "I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all."TL;DR You're acting like a mob intent on vigilante justice. Grow the hell up, you're meant to be adults, stop acting like petulant little shites. *apologies War Kitten for using your sig in a thread such as this, it is somewhat appropriate though* edit ~ Ripard Teg should change his name to Matthew Hopkins, he's painted himself as the Witchfinder General.
I'm quoting you because of awesome.
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
683
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:34:00 -
[2910] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:When someone is recording in teamspeak theres a red dot to the right of their name A red light on a camera does not mean you have consented to being filmed.
Mikey Aivo wrote:Also when you start recording the clinet say user has started recording. That it starts recording does not mean you have consented to the recording. He can proceed with it, but it has no legal value without the consent if you try to argue it as evidence, as Erotica1 tries to argue the TS recordings in his own defence against the EULA kicking his ass right out of EVE.
Mikey Aivo wrote:End of the day though thays ero1's ts server he can do whatever he wants on there and anyone who decides to join him has done so on their own free will. If someone is recording you without your consent, that is not free will. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 .. 254 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |