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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
2
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll admit I'm new to EVE, relatively speaking. I'll also admit to generally enjoying the experience - though it comes and goes in waves. Possibly my least favorite aspects of the game include the anti-social feats of some gamers, such as ganking and scamming. I have been victim to many ganks, but have avoided all scams.
I get that EVE is supposed to be a space simulation of sorts, and therefore "close" to what might happen in real life in most regards. But after a bit of thought, it strikes me that the consequences for bad and/or illegal behavior are not severe enough (e.g. losing an occasional ship and or a "wanted" flag and a bounty).
So, I'm going to propose some mechanics I'd LOVE to see introduced the game to make it not only "more realistic" but also "more fun." These ideas may or may not be novel, and they're certainly not "complete" - so will freely admit they could/should be evolved.
Idea 1: Criminals shot down/caught in hi-sec, and possibly low-sec, space should go to jail. Jail = a temp ban from playing that character. It COULD also result in that character being put into a physical jail somewhere in EVE.
Idea 2: Characters in jail can be freed by either sitting out their term (could be hours/days) OR be broken out by friends. The severity of their crimes/criminal status will drive the difficulty of the prison break. Perhaps prisons for minor offences are located in null sec, and prisons for major offences/criminal ratings be located in hi-sec - and thus much harder to break.
Idea 3: Introduce a player-run judicial system - i.e. courts. Officials could be rotated regularly, but basically voted into office from the broader player community. That may result in crooked judges etc. - but that's no different from real life. Would also need to institute a system to allow elected officials to (1) agree on guilty/not guilty verdict, and (2) punishment - which could be prison time and/or a fine.
I would personally love to see SOMETHING like this. It would keep scammers/crooks on their toes, and make the game a heckuva lot more fun for the 1000s of victims/bystanders out there.
Thoughts? |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
303
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.
This thread is going places. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
809
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a new player, its worth having a look at some of the additionsl forum options too.
This thread for example is better suited to the Features and Ideas Discusdion forum. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
2
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.
This thread is going places.
Sure. You pay taxes in real life too, right? Yet you're not immune from jails and prison if you break the law. Difference is that in EVE you could use an alt (the temp ban is not on the account but the character) OR be broken out of prison by friends, if you have any. The point is CONSEQUENCES. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4501
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
The idea has content potential.
But that would bring the lawyer profession into the game. I think even lawyers play this game to escape the fact that they are lawyers. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1193
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
We're capsulars and operate above the law, only concord can punish us, but thankfully they are not everywhere.
Read the lore, before you trample on it. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
431
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Katkon Darnok wrote:I'll admit I'm new to EVE, relatively speaking.
You don't say...?
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
2
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:As a new player, its worth having a look at some of the additionsl forum options too.
This thread for example is better suited to the Features and Ideas Discussion forum.
My thoughts: i dont think being jailed just for playing the game is a good mechanic. It might work in monopoly, but thats not subscription based. There are already crime watch mechanics for dealing with issues thst make suspects, criminals and pirates attackable anywhere by anyone. That seems adequate to me.
Penalties aren't severe enough to be a deterrent - that's the point. Plus, scammers and "internet bad guys" aren't flagged as criminals so there's no real way to identify/deal with them in the game today (e.g. scamming alts in Jita that never undock).
Good suggestion on sticking into features - don't want to double post, but would welcome a mod moving the thread. |
Doireen Kaundur
386
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well, if you think about it, you go to jail in MONOPOLY too temporarily. So it is a game feature.
We have people lost in WH space asking for help. The other option is self destruct. This too can be an option for jailed capsuleers. Minimizing the cost of replacing implants.
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Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
5
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:We're capsulars and operate above the law, only concord can punish us, but thankfully they are not everywhere.
Read the lore, before you trample on it.
Why would CONCORD punish you if you're above the law? Isn't that a bit of any oxymoron? Clearly no-one is above the law - if they're flying in the wrong place at the wrong time, and have done something criminal. Points is really that existing punishments (e.g. being killed by CONCORD or other players) don't amount to much of a deterrent. Plus, wouldn't staging a prison break be fun?? |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1926
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The idea has content potential.
But that would bring the lawyer profession into the game. I think even lawyers play this game to escape the fact that they are lawyers. Though I don't support this idea because I don't think it would work in EvE there is a very interesting game my kid plays where players can be placed in jail and it does have a deterrent effect on the actions of players RDM'ing others. Its an interesting experiment on player policing.
Don't remember the name of the game but you can be a drug dealer, hobo, police officer, gun dealer etc. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Doireen Kaundur
386
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Katkon Darnok wrote:Plus, wouldn't staging a prison break be fun??
It would be something like rescuing the damsel in that mission. You have to blow up the facility to get the jailed pilot out.
Yes, it would be fun. Minimizing the cost of replacing implants.
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2440
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
I've always thought logging into an MMO and finding yourself in a jail cell would be an interesting experience!
I vote that the first use of walking in stations is space prison!!! It could be a mini game where you figure out how to riot or break out! Gamble for space cigs, smuggle drugs in and trade for prison hootch!! Craft a prison shank and PvP in the exersise yard!
It would be huge!
Issler |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1030
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2593
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
Why? It's an atroicious idea that some GD mouthbreather somehow thinks would be 'fun'.
OP, tell us. How is being temp banned from the game in ANY WAY fun? |
Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
5
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Doireen Kaundur wrote:Katkon Darnok wrote:Plus, wouldn't staging a prison break be fun?? It would be something like rescuing the damsel in that mission. You have to blow up the facility to get the jailed pilot out. Yes, it would be fun.
Excellent point: the basic game infrastructure already exists for the most part in NPC-land, would simply need to expand to non-NPC-land. |
Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
5
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. Why? It's an atroicious idea that some GD mouthbreather somehow thinks would be 'fun'. OP, tell us. How is being temp banned from the game in ANY WAY fun?
1. Creates a sense of excitement; a need to look over your shoulder if you're a criminal or running from the law 2. You get to stage a prison break with an alt and/or friends if imprisoned 3. Those NOT imprisoned but who "see" that a bad guy went to jail will celebrate privately and on the forums
In fact, this isn't entirely unlike the joy that gankers, criminals and scammers experience when they do what they do. Except now the other party gets to share some of that joy. Oh, and the gankers, criminals and scammers get something out of it too - see 1 & 2 above. But, to be quite candid, I'm solving primarily for 3. And if you want to avoid prison altogether and you're a criminal, stick to lawless nullsec. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5043
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Please note the current system that is already in place for suicide ganking...
Direct Penalties: - you lose your ship - you lose any insurance you have the ship - you lose Security Status - you gain a Suspect Flag for 10-15 minutes and can be shot at by anyone and everyone in the game without penalty - you gain a Criminal Flag for 15 minutes (see can't undock in high-sec in anything other than a pod without being CONCORDed again)
Indirect Penalties: - if your Security Status goes low enough (see: below -5.0) then you can be shot by anyone, anywhere, at any time. - if your Security Status goes below certain levels then you will find yourself less and less able to enter higher security systems without the Faction Police attacking you (you can still avoid them in smaller ships though). - with lower Security Status you will be less and less able to get new supplies from high-sec trade hubs and/or must buy from low-sec stations at a premium and/or must rely on friends/alts to resupply you. - if you want to raise your Security Status you must either kill pirate NPCs for a godawful amount of time or spend a fair bit of cash to buy the security tags needed.
Other Risks: - you botch the gank attempt and eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - the target may be tanked more than you think... resulting in a failed gank attempt where you eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - the target never shows and you have wasted time. - the loot that you are ganking for never drops... resulting in a failed gank where you eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - the gank is successful, the loot you want drops, but someone else picked it up before your friend/alt did... resulting in a failed gank where you eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - you don't have enough people to properly suicide gank.
If anything... suicide ganking needs to be buffed... not penalized more. It's already hard enough. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2594
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
There is no sense of excitement for a game ban. Only a sense of frustration and 'I am not going to resub.'
Running a mission is likewise not exciting in any way.
And carebears smacktalking while blundering around highsec without even taking a single basic precaution is a good thing because...?
There's not even any reward for the bears, since they literally do not have to do ANYTHING. This just makes highsec safer, requires the use of alts for ganking, encourages character recycling and further dumbs down the game. |
Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Please note the current system that is already in place for suicide ganking...
Direct Penalties: - you lose your ship - you lose any insurance you have the ship - you lose Security Status - you gain a Suspect Flag for 10-15 minutes and can be shot at by anyone and everyone in the game without penalty - you gain a Criminal Flag for 15 minutes (see can't undock in high-sec in anything other than a pod without being CONCORDed again)
Indirect Penalties: - if your Security Status goes low enough (see: below -5.0) then you can be shot by anyone, anywhere, at any time. - if your Security Status goes below certain levels then you will find yourself less and less able to enter higher security systems without the Faction Police attacking you (you can still avoid them in smaller ships though). - with lower Security Status you will be less and less able to get new supplies from high-sec trade hubs and/or must buy from low-sec stations at a premium and/or must rely on friends/alts to resupply you. - if you want to raise your Security Status you must either kill pirate NPCs for a godawful amount of time or spend a fair bit of cash to buy the security tags needed.
Other Risks: - you botch the gank attempt and eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - the target may be tanked more than you think... resulting in a failed gank attempt where you eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - the target never shows and you have wasted time. - the loot that you are ganking for never drops... resulting in a failed gank attempt where you eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - the gank is successful, the loot you want drops, but someone else picked it up before your friend/alt did... resulting in a failed gank where you eat the cost of the ship and gain a security hit (and 15 minutes of idle time) for no reason. - you don't have enough people to properly suicide gank.
If anything... suicide ganking needs to be buffed... not penalized more. It's already hard enough.
All valid, but hardly a deterrent to a seasoned and successful criminal. So they lose a ship once in a while. Big deal. And the real bad guys don't care too much about their security status and/or can take all sorts of actions to improve if need be. Also, I'm not just referring to ganking - though that's primarily all the game addresses today.
Re: ganking, I'd say: continue to gank to your heart's content. For consequence-less ganks, you'd have to swim around in nullsec, which I acknowledge a lot of gankers aren't comfortable with (they might get ganked - and so have to take on risk themselves). If you gank in hi-sec you have to avoid getting caught or face the more meaningful consequences. |
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Katkon Darnok
Estel Arador Corp Services
5
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:There is no sense of excitement for a game ban. Only a sense of frustration and 'I am not going to resub.'
Running a mission is likewise not exciting in any way.
And carebears smacktalking while blundering around highsec without even taking a single basic precaution is a good thing because...?
There's not even any reward for the bears, since they literally do not have to do ANYTHING. This just makes highsec safer, requires the use of alts for ganking, encourages character recycling and further dumbs down the game.
I disagree - hi-sec would be a bit safer, but you bears could still be ganked. To eliminate the threat completely CCP would need to add a mechanic that makes it impossible for PvP in hi-sec, and that's not what I'm suggesting. I am suggesting that the consequences of criminal activity in hi-sec become meaningful.
So here's another suggestion: Caught criminals have 2 options:
1. Got to jail. 2. Bribe an official to avoid jail. Amount of the fine is based on a combination of (a) the severity of the offense/sec status, and (b) the player's/account's net worth -> not the character's.
There you go - I just offered you a "get out of jail free card".
Look, the point here is not that we need to solve for EXACTLY how this might work. It's about the spirit of the recommendation/suggestion: more and meaningful consequences for criminal actions that harm other players. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5043
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Katkon Darnok wrote:And the real bad guys don't care too much about their security status and/or can take all sorts of actions to improve if need be. And likewise... anyone in high-sec can do the same thing (i.e. "take all sorts of actions to improve" and protect themselves. Extra mechanics are not needed... people just have to be more proactive about protecting themselves rather than rely on convoluted game mechanics that do not add fun and promote equally convoluted "workarounds."
I have been around for 5 years in this game. And every idea about this subject always argues "it's not enough!" without fail. High-sec is supposed to be "safer relative to other areas of the game" but never safe. And the people who actively put effort into their actions, be it good or evil, should not be penalized more because their victims don't want to spend the same amount of effort to counter it. So suck it up OP. If I need friends to gank, you should need friends to protect yourself. If I plan to gank you, you should plan to protect yourself. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2594
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dude. I haven't lived in highsec for well over three years, I'm hardly that particular strain of bear. Hell, I'm arguing that there should be consequences for flying around with fifty billion ISK in a badger. Consequences you want to see removed.
And that is not a get out of jail free card in any way. That is a 'Your market alt has five bil therefore you must pay more than the price of a PLEX to actually play the damn game you're paying for'.
Why, exactly, should there be more consequences for ganking? You have not explained why the ones that Shah pointed out are insufficient. Nor have you explained why stupidity (For example, the fifty billion ISk badger I mentioned, or the ever popular dozen PLEX noobship, the twenty bil marauder, or the autopiloting freighter full of expensive toys) should NOT be punished. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
457
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 02:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
There is some logic to a form of incarceration.
Griefers commonly lock less combat oriented players in stations for days on end. Something to enforce a criminals temporary removal from high-sec might be reasonable. The Idea of a penal system that must be escaped has some merit to me, but I like running PvE content. I cannot say the OP has zero logic... but as much as I'd like to consign every mouth breathing baby eater to null sec where they can enjoy a little non-consensual action themselves, I don't think it would happen.
More feasibly, I would suggest the OP begin fundraising, find a reputable merc corp, and pay them to gank the everloving crap out of anyone they deem to be a criminal, because that's kind of how EVE works. Pay them to gank them every time they undock, or pay them to monitor local in any systems of interest to you to suicide them if they enter space within your domain. For added satisfaction Gank them yourself... It's not too difficult to pop most ships used for ganking with a few gank ships of your own, and one of the more frustrating aspects of ganking is that gank ships are generally pretty cheap. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
78
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Posted - 2014.03.26 02:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah, this won't really happen.
Besides, what do you think alts are for? |
Claud Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
24
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
A jail system sounds awesome. Especially if each race has its own jail, and players can bust out their friends/other players while at the same time, battling off NPC guards. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1567
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm all for a better justice system in new eden, but sorry, a temp ban is a terrible idea.
If we have jails it should have options to have break out, or help others break out of jail with permanent security hits from CONCORD for doing so if you succeed. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Katkon Darnok
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Dude. I haven't lived in highsec for well over three years, I'm hardly that particular strain of bear. Hell, I'm arguing that there should be consequences for flying around with fifty billion ISK in a badger. Consequences you want to see removed.
And that is not a get out of jail free card in any way. That is a 'Your market alt has five bil therefore you must pay more than the price of a PLEX to actually play the damn game you're paying for'.
Why, exactly, should there be more consequences for ganking? You have not explained why the ones that Shah pointed out are insufficient. Nor have you explained why stupidity (For example, the fifty billion ISk badger I mentioned, or the ever popular dozen PLEX noobship, the twenty bil marauder, or the autopiloting freighter full of expensive toys) should NOT be punished.
How many times must I repeat myself? Once again, because the crime doesn't equal the punishment. And, I'm not referring solely to ganking. Look, I get it. You think it does. You believe that victims need be taught a lesson. Tough love will surely sort them out, and if doesn't, you'll be there to reap the rewards - right? I get it. But disagree wholeheartedly with that point of view. I want to make hi-sec less safe - for criminals. I want hi-sec to actually be hi-sec. But most of all, I want to watch criminals suffer for what they do to perfectly decent folks. Even the stupid and ignorant. And that includes imposing heavy fines and/or prison time on criminals, scammers and the like. Make these people suffer.
And, hey, if it works - what happens then?
I'll tell you: hi-sec will be safer and PvEers/bears will be happier, and PvPers will... well, continue to gank etc. each other - but focus on low and null-sec space. Unless of course you tell me that this won't happen - instead thousands of PvPers will unsubscribe in mass revolt as they're now unable to reap the easy kills and rewards that comes with ganking noobs and carebears in hi-sec space. But surely that's not how ganking PvPers get their kicks, right? Because that would just be downright pathetic, if true. :)
Finally, assuming you disagree with pretty much everything I said above, let me ask you two questions in return. 1. Do you agree that EVE needs a tiered security system, including hi-sec? 2. If you answered yes to q1, why do you think the current one is not worth improving - or dare I say - perfect? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2594
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 10:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm going to go ahead and refer you to the rest of the 'highsec should be 100% safe!!11' threads rather than arguing against your often repeated points. They've been done to death.
Also, highsec ganking is an entirety different form of PVP to low or nullsec roaming.
Also, could you please explain why expecting people to take basic precautions with their multi billion ISK ships is a BAD thing?
And yes, a lot of people WOULD unsub if you suddenly made a playstyle that has been a part of this game since day one completely untenable.
As for your questions: Yes, I think there should be tiered space. And no, I don't think the system is perfect. I think there should be a mid-sec type, comprising 0.5 and 0.4, where you get the faction navy instead of CONCORD. Highsec should be LESS safe, not more. The risk -> reward balance is already skewed way too far in highsec's favour. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
551
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 10:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Katkon Darnok wrote:I'll admit I'm new to EVE, relatively speaking Your monocle tells me that you have more money than sense. If you fly around with cargo worth several months of game time then you deserve to get robbed. When it comes to your personal safety in New Eden: Nullsec is like a war torn African country, Lowsec is pretty much the ghetto, and Hisec is that dangerous back alley you walk down on the way home where people do drugs and the street lights are out. YOU ARE NEVER SAFE IN EVE. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
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