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Fiora
Empire of the Forsaken The Empire of Byzantium
0
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Posted - 2014.03.26 08:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I dont like to constantly stare at my drone's hit points, waiting for them to take damage so that i can tell them to return. I do not like to stare at one spot on my screen, and I dont like that I cant look away for more than 6 seconds without risking the death of a drone. I literally dont use drones now because its too goddamn annoying to constantly watch and babysit them. I dont mind having to recall them when they get atttacked, but I would like to be able to effing look somewhere else other than at 5 tiny little health bars.
I actually just decided to check the in game settings to see if there was some sort of 'audible warning when drones attacked' setting. WHO THE EFF AM I KIDDING?!?!?!!?!?!!?!! HAHAHAHAHA
I dont like talking in all caps but I dont think you will effing realize how much I hate staring at my drones hitpoints, waiting for them to take damage, so here goes.
STOP MAKING ME STARE AT MY DRONES HITPOINTS, GOD WTF I CANT EVEN SCRATCH MY ASS OR A DRONE WILL DIE BECAUSE IT GOT TARGETED MID-ASS-SCRATCH!!!!!!!
all i want is a 'beep' when my drones get attacked. then i can LOOK. i just dont want to have to STARE at that ONE spot. im tired of it, i am EFFING TIRED OF STARING AT DRONE HITPOINTS DO U EFFING GET IT??!?!?!! SCREW DRONES CUZ I AM NOT A GODDAMN BABYSITTER!! I DONT MIND PRESSING SHIFT-R WHEN MY DRONES GET ATTACKED BY I DONT KNOW THEY GET ATTACKED UNLESS I STARE AT THEIR EFFING HITPOINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE U SERIOUSL EFFING KIDDING ME THAT I HAVE TO STARE AT MY DRONE HITPOINTS OR THEY DIE??????? WHY CANT I SCRATCH MY ASS?????? WHY CANT I SCRATCH MY ASS WITHOUT MY DRONES DYING????????? |
Fiora
Empire of the Forsaken The Empire of Byzantium
0
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Posted - 2014.03.26 08:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
you are practically imprisoning me by forcing me to stare at my drone hitpoints. it is taking a TOLL on my FUN in the game!!!!!!! cuz i am seriously fed up with staring at these effing hitbars. and if i look away for more than 6 seconds, a drone will die. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
78
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Posted - 2014.03.26 09:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
No offense, but have you tried flying something that does not use drones?
Now... I think you really meant to ask two questions: 1 - Can we add an audible warning to drones being attacked? - Hey, nice idea. 2 - Can we add a short cut command to recall drones or recall damaged drones? - Cool idea, there is already a shortcut whose default is Shift-R to recall all drones to the drone bay. But maybe add one specifically for recalling damaged drones? Maybe you can have a setting to determine the level of damage for the command to respond? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
309
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Posted - 2014.03.26 09:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Solution: Don't scratch your arse, just wiggle the cheeks a bit and you'll be fine...
Being a drone boat pilot means managing your drones, you would still need to be watching them otherwise they'll return to drone bay and cut your dps without you realizing. Fine the way they are for me.
Trust me on the cheek wiggle thing... |
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Backwater Aristocrats
109
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Get a little more exercise in your life and Shrink dat ass... You will have less to scratch and be back using the mouse in to time! |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
310
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:Get a little more exercise in your life and Shrink dat ass... You will have less to scratch and be back using the mouse in to time!
Do you call all of your Assault Frigates 'Airwolf' by any chance? |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
126
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
I wouldn't use the 'rage' typing when trying to get attention from devs. However, I agree with you: the only way of knowing your drones are getting hurt is to keep looking at that tiny window, and most of the time you'll be multitasking.
I suggest damage reports -the ones that cascade in the upper middle of the screen- to also include damage taken by your drones. Something simple and concise, such as: "Garde II - 213 from Mercenary Overlord". Perhaps also an extra warning such as a beep,and/or the drone UI window gently blinking red. Even the drone icon (the one at overview and space) blinking a bit when under attack.
Also, I'd like to see the "missed shot" mechanic also working for drones. Sometimes I feel nervous when I see an enormous laser shot landing perfectly on my sentries... only to discover it was a missed shot, but the missed shot animation hasn't been implemented yet for drones.
I guess CCP is planning a drone revamp-rebalance to continue with the general rebalance efforts. I think this very matter should be one of the basis of that revamp. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
457
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Snarky comments aside, OP has a valid if already much lamented point.
Drones need work for everyday play. Seriously. They have needed it for years upon years.
Big alliances finally using them does not change this, the AI change was needed but poorly implemented because it only addressed half the equation- if we are going to put in agro mechanics, we need tools to manage agro.
Drones never in danger is bad, it makes a drawback meaningless. Drones always getting eaten regardless of any other factor is also bad, it makes a drawback crippling.
Yes, it's a PvE issue. PvE players also pay to play, and their issues deserve attention too. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
311
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Place your drone control window under the target list at the top, you'll always be checking there for target assignment anyway so the drones are in your peripheral vision. You see the shields going pretty easily then... |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
263
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Agree that current drone mechanics are frustrating. Outside of sentries, and lights for close orbiting frigs, drones are dead in PVE.
Heavies are more useless than ever. Poor Ogres :( |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1217
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Agree that current drone mechanics are frustrating. Outside of sentries, and lights for close orbiting frigs, drones are dead in PVE.
Heavies are more useless than ever. Poor Ogres :(
when rats were changed switching targets and attacking drones (especially frigs and destroyers) it was the best change PvE has had in years.
i dnt mind ppl having an alarm if they want one. but how should the mechanics be changed exactly? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
265
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
A T2 Hobgoblin is 500k? If I'm in a raven, I literally lose DPS off my baseline when a drone gets popped. If you're careless or inattentive, sure maybe you had it coming.
However, I've run a plethora of L4 or sleeper sites where a drone is targeted and it's dead in the next server tick. No time to recall. If I send a hammerhead in a new L4 room outside of 15km I may as well write it off (even in a ship with a drone durability bonus). There's no way it's getting back.
However, with a single remote rep - I can let my sentries TANK entire L4 rooms (obviously not all L4s). Since sentries have a huge SP requirement, it seems a little unfair to kill our new player experience with drones and their intro level 4 missions so thoroughly.
This is especially problematic for newer players that are being disrupted and getting their drones insta popped. They are essentially stuck and hoping they can perma tank the room.
Drones should either have enough HP (or speed) to make it back before popping in a simple L4, or the aggression mechanics should be rebalanced.
I don't like the AFK rattler any more than anyone else. However, where we are at now - you may as well use T1 lights and treat them as ammo.
This is especially frustrating when you are using heavies, or 'pure' drone boats like a prophecy or domi. It completely obsoletes a weapon system for a group of players. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
313
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
I always assumed that ogres would be used by a drone boat set up to brawl. Are there no fits for this? I'd be interested to see suggestions along these lines as I'm an active drone pilot so don't mind getting in close and managing my little mechanized monsters
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Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2447
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Agree that current drone mechanics are frustrating. Outside of sentries, and lights for close orbiting frigs, drones are dead in PVE.
Heavies are more useless than ever. Poor Ogres :(
Heavies have niche use cases. For gruistas or serpentis anoms, a wasp ishtar has better drone dps than any sentry setup. The wasps track very very well and move at 2.7km/s "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
265
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Posted - 2014.03.26 18:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Heavies have niche use cases. For gruistas or serpentis anoms, a wasp ishtar has better drone dps than any sentry setup. The wasps track very very well and move at 2.7km/s
Damn you Batelle with your facts. I still use heavies in my brawling nuet-geddon too. It doesn't mean that I think they are well balanced. That said, very good point. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
265
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Posted - 2014.03.26 18:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I always assumed that ogres would be used by a drone boat set up to brawl. Are there no fits for this? I'd be interested to see suggestions along these lines as I'm an active drone pilot so don't mind getting in close and managing my little mechanized monsters
In incursions, a Vindi set up with ogres can pack out a huge amount of damage (and is the recommended set up).
You can brawl like a boss on a wormhole or a station with heavies, though you are likely to lose them quickly (using a navy mega or a domi). This is of course more of a PVP application. The nueting armageddon pairs well with heavy drones in a fight.
Hyperions can still use heavies to a limited capacity to brawl, but cap can be a big issue since you're going to be using a MWD to chase down ships in missions.
All that said, it definitely was not worth my time to train up for Tech II heavies. It hasn't paid of noticably in the time I've had it. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1219
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Posted - 2014.03.26 19:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
honestly dnt see it as an issue. i have an astarte that loses drones all the time because im too busy lowering transversal or pulsing modules. but thats the price i pay for having a brawl ur face of epic isk making machine thats also fun to fly.
why should ur drones be immortal in missions? or why shouldnt missions have teeth? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2460
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Posted - 2014.03.26 19:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:honestly dnt see it as an issue. i have an astarte that loses drones all the time because im too busy lowering transversal or pulsing modules. but thats the price i pay for having a brawl ur face of epic isk making machine thats also fun to fly.
why should ur drones be immortal in missions? or why shouldnt missions have teeth?
If you're going to treat drones as ammo then t2 ones need to be cheaper and drone bays need to be larger. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1219
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Posted - 2014.03.26 19:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Batelle wrote: If you're going to treat drones as ammo then t2 ones need to be cheaper and drone bays need to be larger.
ppl generally use T1 ammo. the idea of using T1 drones doesnt sound so crazy to me. i may just try it.
perhaps if CCP saw everyone using T1 drones they might think a change is needed. but ppl will still use T2 drones for PvP like they do T2 ammo. so maybe they wont think it a problem. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
313
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Posted - 2014.03.26 19:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
It'll be a pure cost/benefit ratio. If the t2 drones will give someone in PvP the extra few dps required to win the fight they will use them regardless of cost ( to a degree). Same in missions but to a lesser degree. |
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
265
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Posted - 2014.03.26 20:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:It'll be a pure cost/benefit ratio. If the t2 drones will give someone in PvP the extra few dps required to win the fight they will use them regardless of cost ( to a degree). Same in missions but to a lesser degree.
I'm not against what you are saying, but when I have no risk of losing my sentries (I don't think I've lost one unless I drifted away) and someone is trying to use lights, mediums, or heavies in a PVE environment and taking tremendous losses... it just doesn't seem like the drone equation is well balanced. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
313
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Posted - 2014.03.26 20:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm certainly not arguing that drones need an overhaul along with PvE in it's entirety :) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1219
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Posted - 2014.03.26 20:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
thats just sentries. theres not really a way to introduce risk into them, and changing typical drones so that they are faster and tougher can disrupt the PvP balance.
the best counter is to not send drones to targets that are too far out, or stay close to ur drones.
for ships that are able to sit in the middle of a mission and snipe, sentries will always be a far superior choice. for ships that are mobile, they get damage mitigation from that mobility but cant use the far superior (in missions) sentries, EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
460
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Posted - 2014.03.26 21:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:thats just sentries. theres not really a way to introduce risk into them, and changing typical drones so that they are faster and tougher can disrupt the PvP balance.
the best counter is to not send drones to targets that are too far out, or stay close to ur drones.
for ships that are able to sit in the middle of a mission and snipe, sentries will always be a far superior choice. for ships that are mobile, they get damage mitigation from that mobility but cant use the far superior (in missions) sentries,
Drone survivability is mostly a problem on ships that use them for primary or only dps. Its not a big deal to lose a flight of lights when clearing off a few frigates when you have 800+ dps guns. The opposite situation is crippling.
The AI changes have seriously compromised them as a weapons platform in PvE. The situation was unbalanced before, but the current situation is even worse in the other direction. In PvP the situation is largely unchanged other than the improvements in damage from DDA and tracking on hulls. In PvE they have become so annoying that they and the ships that depend on them are painful to use. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2464
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Posted - 2014.03.26 22:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Drone survivability is mostly a problem on ships that use them for primary or only dps. Its not a big deal to lose a flight of lights when clearing off a few frigates when you have 800+ dps guns. The opposite situation is crippling.
Plenty of non-drone PVE ships are potentially crippled if tackled if they lose a single flight of drones. None of the discussion of cost and "drones as ammo" address the fact drone bays are generally balanced around not treating them as disposable dps.
Daichi Yamato wrote:Batelle wrote: If you're going to treat drones as ammo then t2 ones need to be cheaper and drone bays need to be larger.
ppl generally use T1 ammo. the idea of using T1 drones doesnt sound so crazy to me. i may just try it.
Then you don't know **** about drones or you're crazy. Besides, t2 ammo does not make obsolete t1 ammo, but t2 drones DO make obsolete all other drones.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:It'll be a pure cost/benefit ratio. If the t2 drones will give someone in PvP the extra few HUNDREDS OF dps required to win the fight they will use them regardless of cost ( to a degree). Same in missions but to a lesser degree.
People that can use t2 drones do not use t1 drones. Period.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
313
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Posted - 2014.03.26 22:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Agree with Batelle here, I wouldn't dream of using t1's now. I haven't noticed losing drones particularly more yet either although I still only run lvl III missions...t2's aer fine int 3/10 and 4/10 DEDs' though
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
460
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Posted - 2014.03.27 00:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
I will admit that I primarily mission in battleships. Since the introduction of the Micro-Jump Drive frigates in PvE no longer pose a serious threat to Battleships as you can jump and pop them on the way back to you. If you are missioning in something smaller I can see where it would be an issue.
I have flown missions where the NPCs were just obstinate about killing the drones. No amount of scrambling, RR, or Ewar used on either allies or the rats would get them off the drones, and whole wings of drones were devoured. Except for sentries that were being sat on, every drone that was launched was webbed and destroyed within seconds of leaving the ship, to the point that I was forced to simply go and get another ship to complete the mission because I could not use drones in any meaningful way except bait. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1220
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
batelle, maybe uve just become too accustomed to using T2. true T2 ammo works differently, but then faction ammo? again, not often used in missions. hey, im trying it, see how it works out.
and drone boats are the least likely to lose drones. ur watching ur drones closely, they have more hit points or fly faster, or ur using sentries.
i can only remember losing one berzerker in my years between using a rattler and domi. however my astarte loses tons of small and meds because im just too busy paying attention to other things i dnt see the rats swap targets. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
0mni Ca
Hit Squad 420 Almost Awesome.
54
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Posted - 2014.03.27 03:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
You: "Doctor, Doctor, it hurts every time I lift my arm."
Doctor: "Stop lifting your arm."
If you can't keep an eye on your drones, then don't use them. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
460
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Posted - 2014.03.27 03:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
If you are not losing drones in missions its because you are not running missions.
There is a cycle on NPC AI where they decide that drones must die. It is impossible to both keep drones in space and keep aggro off them when that happens. This means a drone ship can just sit there, or lose drones while just sitting there. This does not matter to a ship that uses drones as a secondary weapon, but drone ships are crippled by it.
No amount of drone management can keep drones in space inside missions. Maybe its different inside complexes and anomolies, but mission AI will eventually hate drones more than anything, and once it happens you better either have all the frigates and cruisers dead, or just dock and get a new mission. Rumors of controling aggro with ewar and rr are false, it only works about half the time, and not for long.
The hp bonus for drones does not keep them alive much longer. True, a light can survive a few seconds more, but once its webbed its dead unless its inside docking range already. Only sentries can survive enemy fire from ships at ranges past about 15k, and even at that range they often die between the time damage shows on their shields and they acknowledge the return command.
Bear in mind I am not whining about the AI change, just pointing out the effect it has had on ships that use drones as their primary damage in missions. This one change got me out of a Domi and into a Kronos. I am as effective and efficient as ever in my playstyle because I was never an afk mission grinder, but I loved using drones as a weapon system and its no longer viable to do that except in fleets over three people--- for some reason when there is a flert that size the drones rarely take aggro and I have even seen the rats break off drones to attack someone else when they had it in structure. I didnt even have T2 blasters trained until the AI change.
Some sort of change is in order. Drones should not be safe in space, thats a part of the price you pay, among many, for being good at drones. They should not be vaporized on launch either, that makes them a poor choice no matter how strong they get. |
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