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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2881
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Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[181] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Does anyone have already a subtitle for what CCP said? Or they just talking without saying anyhting?
The summary is they repeated the stance they've always had: real life harassment is bad, don't do it. No changes to the EULA/TOS were made, and as normal they won't discuss individual cases/players.
So basically nothing changed at all. Unfortunately we still have to deal with the :moral high horse: brigade trivialising ****, torture, etc with their desperate, repulsive inflammatory posts, and even a few who are condoning real life violence. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2944
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
GÇ£You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you canGÇÖt please all of the people all of the time. And if you try to please all of the people at once, you usually come off looking like an *******." -Abraham Lincoln |
Salvos Rhoska
844
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:52:00 -
[183] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s
Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5597
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:54:00 -
[184] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond.
Who gives a flip who you drink with?
I'm talking about your behavior as a person. namely "I'd laugh if someone hit Erotica1 in the face" and all the other crap you spewed in the now locked thread (and threads before it). |
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.03.28 14:54:00 -
[185] - Quote
LOTS OF POSTS GOT DELTED FROM THIS THREAD. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3164
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:54:00 -
[186] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond.
Who you choose to drink with is not what he was talking about. Still not reading anything I see. Nothing's changed. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3308
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:55:00 -
[187] - Quote
I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2881
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:55:00 -
[188] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond.
No, what makes you a bad guy is encouraging real life violence, and for trivialising real human suffering.
hope this helps :) |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
575
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:55:00 -
[189] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thank you CCP, as well as CSM who have been involved with representing the communities interests on this, for this clear and strong statement.
Lets all hope there are as few cases as possible of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world, so that all of us have more levity for content and enjoying the game, without everyone having to be suffer more restrictions necessary only due to the extraordinary detrimental actions of a few bad apples.
Well said and nice approach ccp. Now lets back to new eden.
DNSBlack
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5598
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kethry Avenger wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices. If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories. Translation : get rid of people I don't like or lose my 15bux times however many accounts! I once told a beautiful woman I dated who I thought was spending too much time with her business partner dude something similar: It's either him or me, CHOOSE!! I hear her and her husband/business partner (and her new girlfriend who is half Brazilian/half French) are very happy now all living together....... I've learned to stfu now. Door is that way ----> That sounds messed up, and also sounds like you were right as she is now living happily with said business partner.... So bad example.
Derail
She wasn't, until I said something about it, which i confirmed...after the fact.....
/Derail
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Dr Silkworth
48
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:02:00 -
[191] - Quote
Reprehensible:
1. deserving censure or condemnation.
So Mr Falcon since you'll answer any questions, and you have stated that " that real life harassment is morally reprehensible", and from what we can tell, you have neither censured or condemned, if the word morally can provide us with any more information than your ambiguous post?
I would like to know if your position is on harassment moral or legal grounds. I am assuming moral. Am I correct? And if so, what is your position on laws regarding harassment around the world and why are they not of any importance relative to morality.? |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1347
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:02:00 -
[192] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc by comparing it to someone making a player sing on comms for their spacebux? I noticed some rather affective choice words in your post, such as "scumbag", so I just wondered what you thought about the people who sensationalise and exploit real human suffering in order to try and bolster their arguments.
:)
What are your thoughts on trivializing the terribleness of cancer by also applying the term "illness" to a common cold? |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:03:00 -
[193] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:I think the behaviour and attitude Salvos demonstrates in these threads is toxic for the community. He repeatedly expressed the personal joy he'd feel if other members of the community were physically assaulted, and has demonised as many people as he could to try and push his agenda.
It's rather gross. Yep, and it's that same guy who has the single highest post count in the thread that got locked, the thread where he tried to internet lawyer a guy into a ban for being toxic to the community. It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s
They remind me of the politicians who froth at the mouth while screaming "won't someone please think of the children!" while pushing their own pet agendas.... which have nothing to do with protecting the children.... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2735
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:05:00 -
[194] - Quote
404 Error Post Not Found *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4545
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:06:00 -
[195] - Quote
In America, a city will try to boost its tourist income with a campaign to advertise why people should visit it.
Las Vegas is a city where prostitution and gambling are legal, and hence when people visit, they may get involved in some adult activities of the sort that they don't want to go home and tell everybody.
So Las Vegas has a slogan that has become a bit of a meme in America:
"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"
CCP's stance on that appears to be similar. What happens in this game should stay in the game.
And I have a hard time seeing why anybody could disagree with that. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:07:00 -
[196] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:IYou proved that you were of lower moral character than the person you were criticizing. I can laugh and applaud at whatever I want to, for whatever reasons I want to. There is no law against laughter or clapping. I can choose who I do or do not drink with. My post was valid and coherent according to the Amnesty International definition of what constitutes torture. I have never claimed, either here on the forums, or in the comm you refer to, to be a lawyer, nor edited out any comment to that effect. You can judge my "moral character" till the world stops turning. Doesn't change one iota, that all of your claims, are false. ------------ |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3169
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:09:00 -
[197] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:No, what makes you a bad guy is encouraging real life violence, and for trivialising real human suffering.
hope this helps :) Seeing as none of it is true, it is not helpful at all :)
Salvos, don't make me link posts you've made that you can't conveniently edit. Oh, woops, too late.
What was it you said?
"If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)"
And I'm going to link that every time you deny stating you would take pleasure from harm coming to Ero and inciting violence. I now have it bookmarked.
Stop lying, and people won't call you a liar. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2735
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:10:00 -
[198] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:IYou proved that you were of lower moral character than the person you were criticizing. I can laugh and applaud at whatever I want to, for whatever reasons I want to. There is no law against laughter or clapping. I can choose who I do or do not drink with. My post was valid and coherent according to the Amnesty International definition of what constitutes torture. I have never claimed, either here on the forums, or in the comm you refer to, to be a lawyer, nor edited out any comment to that effect. You can judge my "moral character" till the world stops turning. Doesn't change one iota, that all of your claims, are false.
You know, he kinda has a point.
I mean, I only think torture is wrong when its for a reason other than fun
Does that make me a bad person?
Um..
Well yes it does
But I dont HAVE to care lol *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2889
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:11:00 -
[199] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them?
I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good.
I don't think it's very likely to see such such a roleplay in a game, and more often than not it'd turn into a tasteless joke. But I guess it's at least possible.
What I find really unforgiving though is bringing those things up and comparing rather trivial video-game occurrences, like ganking or scamming, in order to try and make your complaints seem more serious and weighty than they really are. Ripard Teg does it a lot - comparing ganking weak ships to ****, or this bonus room stuff to torture, etc - and I think he's not only a hack, but a despicable excuse. I hope he learns to treat these serious issues with the some sensitivity one day. |
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:And I'm going to link that every time you deny stating you would take pleasure from harm coming to Ero and inciting violence. I now have it bookmarked.
Nowhere there does it say I would take pleasure from harm coming to Erotica1, nor have I incited violence anywhere.
You can imply it all you want. Doesn't change the above. ------------ |
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Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3169
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:14:00 -
[201] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:And I'm going to link that every time you deny stating you would take pleasure from harm coming to Ero and inciting violence. I now have it bookmarked. Nowhere there does it say I would take pleasure from harm coming to Erotica1, nor have I incited violence anywhere. You can imply it all you want. Doesn't change the above.
Laughing indicates pleasure. People don't laugh if they haven't experienced pleasure to some degree. You said you'd laugh and applaud. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2735
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:14:00 -
[202] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them? I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good. I don't think it's very likely to see such such a roleplay in a game, and more often than not it'd turn into a tasteless joke. But I guess it's at least possible. What I find really unforgiving though is bringing those things up and comparing them to rather trivial video-game occurrences, like ganking or scamming, in order to try and make your complaints seem more serious and weighty than they really are. Ripard Teg does it a lot - comparing ganking weak ships to ****, or this bonus room stuff to torture, etc - and I think he's not only a hack, but a despicable excuse of a person. I hope he learns to treat these serious issues with the some sensitivity one day.
Hmm I guess you dont take much to do with the Blood Raiders then lol *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:21:00 -
[203] - Quote
Onwards to 400 pages. Make it happen people. :) |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:22:00 -
[204] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:What are your thoughts on trivializing the terribleness of cancer by also applying the term "illness" to a common cold?
That's not comparable at all, "illness" is a widely used term to describe many different things, **** and torture are not - they're quite well defined, even with specific laws and such to cover what they are and are not.
I would, however, find it distasteful to say things like "you're the cancer ruining this community" to someone whose actions I didn't like, or "you look like you have cancer" to someone who looks particularly frail. Worse again if someone was using the word purely as an appeal to emotion in an inflammatory attack piece.
Ramona McCandless wrote:Hmm I guess you dont take much to do with the Blood Raiders then lol
I shoot some of them occasionally, that's about it :)
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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3330
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:23:00 -
[205] - Quote
Danalee wrote:So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. Did I say that? I rather think not. See my comment in the same reply about semantic quibblers. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Sturmwolke
530
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[206] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts". Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account? |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
167
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[207] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Needless to say there are a LOT of questions that need pretty firm answers.
guess you won't get them. If I were not playing Eve many of the questions would seem a bit unnecessary to me as in: WTF would do such a thing because of a game anyway. Alas, Eve's serios spaceship business so people indeed do have such brilliant ideas.
I would not try to get someone banned by faking a recording. I doubt this will be succesful. And I doubt that much proof will be needed that the perpetrator is the actual perpetrator should future bonus room breakdowns become public. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
36
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[208] - Quote
Trebor: Thanks for adding some, judiciously worded, clarification to the excessively guarded CCP posts.
I have to say it's a shame to see you're standing for CSM 9 :( W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3171
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[209] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote: The gankers I respect are the ones who will take the time, after the fact, to explain to the victim why they got blown up, and how they can defend themselves in future. I view them as performing an educational service.
So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. And in the rare cases where your target needs some time before he/she realizes how he/she feels about the ordeal it's harrasment. Can you, just to be as clear as possible, state which timeperiod you have in mind between the act of ganking/scamming/asking to sing songs and the discovery of the target that his/her feelings have been hurt? D.
This, exactly this. Every single gank I've performed, I've tried to explain to the player how to avoid it in future. Some of them just get emotionally out of control and don't care, they just want to rage. So where is the line? And if CCP does ban Ero, will they qualify that line to him? I'm listening to the recording myself and this is VERY analogous to a few of my own experiences of gank victims I've invited onto coms and tried to calmly explain why they lost their ship. At what point in that person's rage is it me harassing them? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
5190
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:25:00 -
[210] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out .the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Boom.
Someone give this gentleman a medal. This post right here nails it perfectly in every regard.
Very well said. Thanks. -áGÖí-á-á-áMajor (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
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