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Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1678
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:45:00 -
[151] - Quote
Oh dear. I suppose I ought say something at this point. I shall do my best to be brief and polite, since emotions seem to be running high, and I'm apparently one of the points of contention in this discussion. So, to address the statements made:
Regarding the direction of my sympathies: I don't sympathize with people who are in a position to help individuals with my condition, sir. My condition is unique, and the care I currently receive is excellent. I co-operate with organizations researching palliative neurology. TS-F does employ a number of highly skilled neurologists and information scientists, but their research is augmentative, not palliative care. As such we have relatively little overlap.
I have never been given treatment from TS-F or its associates. I have discussed the topic with them, though can't recall the details. Do mind, though - I've discussed treatment with almost every recognizeable faction in the Cluster. A lot of people want to look at my brain for some reason, as it turns out! They might think it holy; I think they'll find it holey.
Regarding our work in screening rescued State citizens: This is something I can discuss more concretely. LDRBC has conducted, and still conducts, reception investigations on many parties returned to State space from Nation holding facilities or contamination zones. Our facilities are very thorough and the procedures are very expensive. Insofar as it is possible to screen for such anomalies, we have done so. Specific procedures are trade secrets, but we provide full exit reports to the hiring parties including aforementioned blood screening work, high resolution atomic resonance scans, cognitive map, genetic and epigenetic configurations, and anomalous protein vectors amongst other tests. We're very proud of our work and feel that we have just cause for our pride.
Regarding my compromization to TS-F: I am perhaps the least at-risk individual in the Cluster. I am subjected to excruciatingly thorough weekly medical examinations, with more intense batteries monthly. I am under the supervision of psychologists, neurologists, cognitive scientists, and a host of bio-doctors. My brain is thoroughly mapped and supported by a constellation of implants that allow my doctors to see deeply into my cognitive processes. My brain is, quite literally, held in copyright by Lai Dai Corporation. A more rigorously tested and monitored infomorphic brain simply doesn't exist. TS-F would be less conspicuous walking through Jita 4-4 CNAP naked and carrying ornamental furniture than they would be in trying to infiltrate my brain, memetically or otherwise.
Regarding PYRE's actions in exchanging prisoners with TS-F: I'm overjoyed that they are able to rescue State citizens, but am troubled at the price they pay. It is a most pragmatic action, however, and provides an additional communication vector to Nation. This assists in everything from peace efforts to threat prediction. My concluding remarks on this is that it is not my affair, and thus my opinions are only opinions, and should not be afforded weight in any decision-making. I will happily co-operate in analytic decision-making on the topic if asked, however.
There! I think that covers everything. Are there other accusations which I ought address? |
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1678
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:46:00 -
[152] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:I fly Amarr ships. I like the Coercer, because it has 8 Guns, thus can load 8 different Coloured crystals, for a Rainbow Effect.
I am also Greatly Confused by many Posts in this Thread. Oh, Synthia, I do love your hair like that :) It's quite becoming!
I fly Caldari hulls; I'm sure that's no surprise. My heart goes out to the Naga; it really does make me feel alive to be in that ship. There's something about being in a dense hull that's little but a massive powerplant, engine and shield projection systems packed into a frame almost to small to contain it. You should see the serotonin, oxytocin and epinephrine charts, they're really something!
I of course try to rescue stranded crewmembers, regardless of nationalities, but my priority is in keeping my own crew alive. I happily provide basic health and safety services for those rescued, and surrender them to Ishukone Watch or Lai Dai Protection Force when I am able to do so. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
5511
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 18:47:00 -
[153] - Quote
Bryen Verrisai wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote: We've never tried to dehumanize our opponents by casting them as subhuman monstrosities!
Right, you dehumanize them by taking out their human parts. Really?
Where do I click to learn more? -áGÖí-á-á-áMajor (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
Candi LeMew
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
684
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:05:00 -
[154] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Bryen Verrisai wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote: We've never tried to dehumanize our opponents by casting them as subhuman monstrosities!
Right, you dehumanize them by taking out their human parts. Really? Where do I click to learn more? Please don't get any funky ideas boss. "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
2130
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
That sort of opinion is also based on a fallacy, that what is human in someone requires both the good and bad. We believe that what is bad in humanity can be excised and what is good exalted.
The difficulty we have with the rest of the cluster comes in when what values we consider to be positives differ with those of others. There are traits that we value very highly and assign high station to. There are traits that we consider to be poor, that we would remove, that others consider to be driving factors. It's really the same song and dance as any other set of differing social groups, and it ought to have remained as such except that the Big4 decided that it would be a wise idea to try to kill us all and wipe us off the map. What we are doing now is, in my opinion, a rather muted retaliation and repositioning considering what consequences face us if we fail. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4616
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 20:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:For crews like yours, we have an arrangement with TSF whereby we can swap them for Caldari POWs before they go into Nation's vats for processing. Sleep well. Wow.I don't think I've ever completely lost respect for an entire organisation and every individual associated with it so quickly or nonchalantly before. The people we rescue tend to think differently. And really, the penalty for Piracy is death anyway, isn't it?
Try it.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3428
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:04:00 -
[157] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:For crews like yours, we have an arrangement with TSF whereby we can swap them for Caldari POWs before they go into Nation's vats for processing. Sleep well. Wow.I don't think I've ever completely lost respect for an entire organisation and every individual associated with it so quickly or nonchalantly before. The people we rescue tend to think differently. And really, the penalty for Piracy is death anyway, isn't it? Try it.
Try? Shooting pirates? I might have done that once or twice. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4619
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:20:00 -
[158] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:For crews like yours, we have an arrangement with TSF whereby we can swap them for Caldari POWs before they go into Nation's vats for processing. Sleep well. Wow.I don't think I've ever completely lost respect for an entire organisation and every individual associated with it so quickly or nonchalantly before. The people we rescue tend to think differently. And really, the penalty for Piracy is death anyway, isn't it? Try it. Try? Shooting pirates? I might have done that once or twice.
Try shooting my guys to take crew for the calculators.
Please.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3428
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:27:00 -
[159] - Quote
Pending an advantageous engagement scenario. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4620
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:32:00 -
[160] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Pending an advantageous engagement scenario.
Thought so.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3428
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:40:00 -
[161] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Pending an advantageous engagement scenario. Thought so.
That I hadn't magically become a moron who can't count overnight? Congratulations. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4620
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:50:00 -
[162] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Pending an advantageous engagement scenario. Thought so. That I hadn't magically become a moron who can't count overnight? Congratulations.
Didn't seem to bother you before, nothing but a bunch of '**** fit frigates,' right?
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Arista Shahni
Macedonian Phalanx Circle-Of-Two
95
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 00:05:00 -
[163] - Quote
Well, this has certainly become a thread of the Summit to be enjoyed with a glass of wine.
I am glad to see you are apparently doing well Anslo, albeit still slightly dissapointed that I was so disposeable as an associate.
"I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
Arista Shahni
Macedonian Phalanx Circle-Of-Two
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:36:00 -
[164] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Miss Shahni, I really have no clue what you were trying to say for most of your post so I'm only going to address the part that made sense to me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're bothered by the fact that some individuals are upset with the way other individuals are doing business. If this is true, I have a hard time imagining how to put up with everything else that goes on in this world. This is the Summit, and if people don't want their dirty laundry aired or prefer not to read about others dirty laundry then they can simply not take part and ignore it. When someone does something controversial, there's going to be some who do not approve. It doesn't mean any one side is right or wrong, it's just the way it works when you address topics that people have strong feelings about.
As you did not understand what I was trying to say for 'most of my post', I will forgive you for missing the entire point of it and hyperfocusing on the very superficial obvious statements you made here. They are correct. They were not, however, the point I was making.
There are people who most certainly do understand what I was saying, however, and most, if not all of them, have been reading this dialogue, if not actively engaging in it.
As I have respect for you you based on things you have said over time, do not take this as an insult. It is possible that you are simply not informed enough on the entirety of what has been transpiring to make any sound judgement calls on the tip of this iceberg which has managed to breach the surface here on the Summit. This is not simply about people 'being upset'. That is only what you are able to see from what has been said here in public.
"I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
Avio Yaken
Scope Works
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:52:00 -
[165] - Quote
Im just gonna sit over here and watch this.......very interesting https://dust514.com/recruit/S68k5l/
Get a rifle dammit! join the dust forces today! |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 04:57:00 -
[166] - Quote
Arista Shahni wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Miss Shahni, I really have no clue what you were trying to say for most of your post so I'm only going to address the part that made sense to me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're bothered by the fact that some individuals are upset with the way other individuals are doing business. If this is true, I have a hard time imagining how to put up with everything else that goes on in this world. This is the Summit, and if people don't want their dirty laundry aired or prefer not to read about others dirty laundry then they can simply not take part and ignore it. When someone does something controversial, there's going to be some who do not approve. It doesn't mean any one side is right or wrong, it's just the way it works when you address topics that people have strong feelings about.
As you did not understand what I was trying to say for 'most of my post', I will forgive you for missing the entire point of it and hyperfocusing on the very superficial obvious statements you made here. They are correct. They were not, however, the point I was making. There are people who most certainly do understand what I was saying, however, and most, if not all of them, have been reading this dialogue, if not actively engaging in it. As I have respect for you you based on things you have said over time, do not take this as an insult. It is possible that you are simply not informed enough on the entirety of what has been transpiring to make any sound judgement calls on the tip of this iceberg which has managed to breach the surface here on the Summit. This is not simply about people 'being upset'. That is only what you are able to see from what has been said here in public.
Rest assured that no offense is taken. However, if you can find the time and words to better explain the point you were trying to make, then please do so I can understand.
-Eran |
Arista Shahni
Macedonian Phalanx Circle-Of-Two
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 05:07:00 -
[167] - Quote
It may feel like a teasing statement to make, but -- I simply can't. It would only add fuel to an ugly fire that has no basis in reality in New Eden - if that makes sense.
In truth this nonsense -- which is what it is -- is best left as a dropped topic. My lack of posting in the IGS and the fact that I have finally made a statement more than a sentence long, for those who know me, speaks volumes as to the extent this issue has escalated in local and private comms. "I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3416
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:13:00 -
[168] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:For crews like yours, we have an arrangement with TSF whereby we can swap them for Caldari POWs before they go into Nation's vats for processing. Sleep well.
Throw a stranger to the wolves to rescue a cousin, eh?
I think I understand why: If you value the lives and freedom of Caldari above those of anybody else (especially pirates), then the trade would seem reasonable (albeit callous).
Except... Nation are not trustworthy. I have known pretty much everybody in TS-F to tell direct lies about both Nation and their own corporation with a straight face and in the teeth of overwhelming facts. Kuvakei himself has zero regard for treaties and civilized agreements: He does only whatever is in his best interests, according to his own evaluation, without a second thought for integrity.
This is a model I have no doubt that Shaktipat Revelators duly imitate - after all, the Master sets the example, no? They may not have his power and ability to act with impunity and will thus be more cautious to preserve their appearance of reasonable integrity, but remember that everything they do, they do to advance the objectives of Nation, which let us not forget is an enemy of the very State you have sworn to defend.
So... what does Nation gain from swapping prisoners they already have, for other prisoners? It's just time and effort spent shipping them about and delivering them to a rendezvous for trade, with all the associated cost and difficulty of prisoner transfer and security. Why not just chuck who they have in the vats and let you deal with the pirate crews yourself?
What, in other words, do they get out of it?
What guarantee do you have that the citizens you rescue haven't been through the vats already? We have recordings of live, on-air footage from a reporter who got an interview with Kuvakei himself only to be assimilated in minutes by a swam of airborne nanites, the same technology being used in the YC112 "Upliftings" to march terrified human puppets into the holds of waiting transports.
What guarantee can you honestly make with the rigour required of a trained security specialist, that you have not delivered men and women back to their relieved families carrying the seed of a Sansha sleeper cell? There will be enough of them riddling our society as it is. Arrangements such as this are cracks in our armour, loopholes in our security.
And on what basis are you convicting the crews you hand over to the vats of piracy? You know full well that most capsuleer crew sign on for a tour and spend months hard at work with their head down, earning a fortune to retire on and getting the hell out as soon as they can. Most don't even know the name of their pilot, what system they're in, what they're doing, what corp they fly for. Many more are slaves. Merely being aboard a pirate's ship is not indicative of being guilty of piracy, or even of being aware that piracy was going on.
Finally: selling people into slavery is a crime against State and Region law which was established in the very first act of the CEP during the foundation of the State..
So to recap:
- Without due process you are convicting people of piracy (itself also illegal)
- You are committing a crime by sentencing them into slavery, and then...
- As your payment you are claiming Caldari POWs who may or may not have been compromised by mind-control technology
- which belongs to a technologically superior enemy of the State, and which you can't guarantee your ability to screen.
- This enemy having avowed that contracts are honoured only for as long as they remain in their best interest.
- Therefore, they only do this because they think Nation benefits more than by just assimilating the existing prisoners.
Doesn't anything about that strike you as suspicious? Your arrangement seems neither pragmatic nor honourable, it is in violation of CEP law and it is an avenue which exposes the State to further infiltration.
I would encourage the immediate termination of this policy. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Ollie Rundle
164
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:59:00 -
[169] - Quote
You forgot a key point in your recap, Verin.
It's not just strangers that are being thrown to the wolves. One-hundred and fifty-two 'cousins' were also traded for and shipped to TS-F in October YC115.
Something for those truly loyal to the State to factor into their consideration, perhaps. -á |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
2133
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:15:00 -
[170] - Quote
Whoa, hold on there, Verin.
What treaty did Nation ever break? Historicallly, for both Nation and TS-F, we have abided by the terms of every agreement we have ever had.
It's been other people who decide that they want to break the agreements with us. In YC 37 it was the Amarr and the Caldari who had working agreements with us and then decided that it was okay to be pushed around by the Gallente into committing genocide. For TS-F, we have stuck by every agreement we have ever made until such time that a group (like yours) decided it was okay to break off the agreement.
You may disagree with what we do. You may disagree with how we do things. However, I will not sit here and listen to you tell two-faced lies about us.
I know your hatred of us is pretty much all consuming, but you're outright slandering yourself by letting it cloud your perception of reality this way.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4487
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:19:00 -
[171] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:However, I will not sit here and listen to you tell two-faced lies about us. Well maybe you should stand up and do something about it.
Or has Anslo been whipping you so hard lately that your feet hurt? Mane 614
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Jurou Yuan
Hakkaisuo Corporation Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
69
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Pending an advantageous engagement scenario. Thought so. That I hadn't magically become a moron who can't count overnight? Congratulations. Didn't seem to bother you before, nothing but a bunch of '**** fit frigates,' right?
The entire reason you have your band of miscreants consist of the general public rather than a consistent group is because you have a toxic personality and nobody can stand to be around you for any length of time.
Puffing your chest out toward Pieter in an attempt to get people to pay attention to you isn't going to make people like you either.
oh, I am Caldari, and I fly anything. Pieter how could you, etc.
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
2133
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:28:00 -
[173] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:However, I will not sit here and listen to you tell two-faced lies about us. Well maybe you should stand up and do something about it. Or has Anslo been whipping you so hard lately that your feet hurt?
Uh. What?
I haven't actually seen Anslo in like.. 7 months. I think he went off to go bring his friends to go fight in the Bleak Lands or something, didn't he?
Edit: Maybe both you and Stitcher should go get your neurologies checked out. You both seem to have a problem with reality. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4487
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:31:00 -
[174] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:I haven't actually seen Anslo in like.. 7 months. That's what happens when you don't undock. Mane 614
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Ava Starfire
Gradient
1495
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:32:00 -
[175] - Quote
Whole lotta posturing in this thread, yeap. Is this a testosterone thing?
Andy, maybe you should go shoot at them? I have no love for TSF at all, but words, man. You're not going to beat them, or anyone else, with words. "There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception."
-Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North" |
Anslo
Scope Works
4625
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:17:00 -
[176] - Quote
Jurou Yuan wrote:The entire reason you have your band of miscreants consist of the general public rather than a consistent group is because you have a toxic personality and nobody can stand to be around you for any length of time.
Puffing your chest out toward Pieter in an attempt to get people to pay attention to you isn't going to make people like you either.
oh, I am Caldari, and I fly anything. Pieter how could you, etc.
Cool story.
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Uh. What?
This. They live way too far away.
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Vectra Sharpe
Imperium Quaestores
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:56:00 -
[177] - Quote
Reading through this thread causes me a great deal of sadness, but also, some perspective. While I feel I may have jumped to a hasty conclusion about your actions, Pieter, I can at least understand them. But... don't mistake that understanding for sympathy, please. It's just that... Well, I just don't believe anyone should be able to decide if one person's life is worth more than another. I bear you no I'll will or harsh judgement toward you as an individual man, but I have to say I am very horrified by Pyre's policy on this. I admit, I have no personal dealings with Nation outside of the experience of having them invade a nearby system last year and costing me a frigate, and a few friends which I could do nothing to save...
I do, however, have experience in being subjected to the despair of being held against my will. Even though it was not Nation that put me through that.... nightmare (I believe with nation, the experience would have been even more terrifying), I can say without a doubt that giving anyone over to an entity that strips them of their will to be an individual and deprives them of their hopes, dreams, affections, and animosities is nothing short of monstrous. Condemning anyone to that, even your enemies... I'm sorry, I guess I just don't have the words to explain how that makes me feel.
But I'm not attacking you, Pieter. I do understand wanting to save your brethren from that fate, it's just that the price... It's too high. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. |
DeadRow
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
232
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:08:00 -
[178] - Quote
((Delete post, forum fecked up and deleted what I wrote, shall redo later.)) |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2341
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:02:00 -
[179] - Quote
I just find it adorable how everyone in TSF have matching backgrounds in their portrait. Maybe Pyre Falcon should get the same backgrounds? That would be really edgy and really cute! Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
529
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:28:00 -
[180] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:I just find it adorable how everyone in TSF have matching backgrounds in their portrait.
I have no idea what you're on about.
Verin of course misses the point entirely.
And Andreus foams at the mouth in a fantasy world devoid of interaction with reality.
Have I missed anything? Oh I would like to say, Anslo, I have to commend you on something. Unlike many people you are actually flying out and attempting to accomplish something. So good on you I suppose. |
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