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Seraphi Nephalis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.03.31 00:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not sure if it's possible to look at my profile or something and see where my character is at as far as skills and ISK and whatnot. So I'll break it down real quick. That way my question will have some context.
My plan is to get into a Myrmidon and sit there, zerging level 2-3 missions for income while my skills build up to more specialized roles. I'm not particularly interested in going up to Battleship until MUCH MUCH later(I.E Bigger is not better) I'm currently flying an Algos, but I have trained up Gallente Cruiser 3 already, and am about 30 hours away from Drones 5. I'm sitting on either 2 or 3 of most of the tier 1 supporting skills in Engineering, Gunnery, Shield, Armor, etc.
My question:
Would it be better to actually take the time to fit out a Cruiser and use that for awhile, and let my skills and bank account get a little more robust before stepping into the BC? Don't worry, I'm not going to do something stupid like spend 95% of my total ISK on a single ship then go and get killed. Let's assume for a moment that I'm shrewd enough to avoid that. This is mainly a question of performance and ISK/hour. The BC is clearly more expensive to set up, but is likely also much more powerful. While the Cruiser I can get right now with little trouble.
Right now I'm running level 1 and 2 missions with relative ease. They're pretty quick, even if the ISK isn't the best. I'm mainly wondering if going into a cruiser for awhile will actually speed up mission times significantly or not. If not, it seems like it's not worth the ISK to fit out a cruiser for mission running when I could be putting that income towards a BC.
Part of me knows that I'm a cautious enough player to not worry too much about losing a BC in a mission to something stupid. But another part of me is saying to just take it slow, because it's going to take awhile to fill in all the skills anyway.
Opinions? Am I over-thinking it? |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3899
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Posted - 2014.03.31 01:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 on the correct way of thinking how to progress.
Before you step into a BC, you want to have the support skills to match that level. This means most (if not all) the tank, core and gunnery/drones.
You do want to be able to use T2 drones with the Myrm as it's a dedicated Drone ship and thus your drones will be the main way of applying damage on anything.
As for what to use, the general accepted ladder in missions is: Level 1 - Frigates / Destroyers Level 2 - Destroyers / Cruisers Level 3 - Cruisers / BC Level 4 - BC / T3 or BS or T2 Cruiser
Of course, there are plenty of exceptions to this general accepted system. Some because you don't need bigger guns or you do need them, some because people are doing it more for fun then ISK (like running L4 missions in an assault frigate - you can do it, but it's far from efficient).
I do suggest that before you go BC, fly a cruiser for a while. Mainly because the step from Destroyer to cruiser is quite big, let alone skipping that and go straight to BC. Smaller ships like a destroyer or frigate work totally different then a bigger ship.
Also, in my opinion there is nothing like over-thinking something in EVE. Better safe then sorry. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24240
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Posted - 2014.03.31 02:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just posting to add that the OP might wanna download EveMon for a general overview of his character, not to mention it can also set up a skill training plan as well.
DMC
Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Forest Archer
Explorer Corps Disavowed.
110
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Posted - 2014.03.31 02:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
For short answer yes get a cruiser first. Long answer as previously stated benefits, also as you play longer you accumulate assets in this case even when you switch to a BC keep the cruiser, you never know when you"ll get in over your head and need to make Isk for one. But most important each ship needs unique handleing though similar you get a taste of the ships you are moving towards. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
121
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Posted - 2014.03.31 03:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ship progression already covered, so a quick note on speed of missions:
You may find that the cruiser is just plain faster. Warp changes and speed on grid greatly favor the cruiser hulls over the BCs.
Try the missions in a cruiser while your training for your Myrm, if you find y need more cap or tank than the cruiser can currently provide with your skill levels, by all means jump into a BC and save yourself some time having to warp out and back in.
Depending on how your damage skills ( I.e. Drones and guns ) you may find that the cruiser hits almost as hard as your BC and actually finishes more missions faster. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
180
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
On the other hand BC is somewhat more generous in fitting wise then a cruiser and since they both still use the same modules I don't see much point in attempting to do lvl 3's in cruiser especially with low skills. it's takes roughly some 6 months of getting your skills good enough to try lvl 4's with a BS but I would recommend "a nanny" for your first attempt on lvl 4's or at least check the guides first.
Saves you a lot of time and isk.
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Seraphi Nephalis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Baneken wrote:On the other hand BC is somewhat more generous in fitting wise then a cruiser and since they both still use the same modules I don't see much point in attempting to do lvl 3's in cruiser especially with low skills.
Yeah, that's mostly what I was looking at, too. Which is why I wondered if it wasn't faster to just jump straight into a BC. Although now that I think about it, I could always strip the cruiser after I'm done and re-use some of the modules and weapons in the BC. Hmm.....
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Cara Forelli
End-of-Line
316
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:Yeah, that's mostly what I was looking at, too. Which is why I wondered if it wasn't faster to just jump straight into a BC. Although now that I think about it, I could always strip the cruiser after I'm done and re-use some of the modules and weapons in the BC. Hmm.....
Very true. Never forget you can always sell your stuff later (possibly at a slight loss).
If it were me, I would get a cruiser and use it for a few level 2s at least before upgrading to a battlecruiser. It can be a bit of a shock going from a small agile ship to a big slow one, and cruisers are a good, cheap, intermediary step which will allow you to get a feel for decreased mobility and larger weapon systems (though with drones this is not as much of an issue). It will also be more forgiving in the more difficult level 2s because you can fit significantly more tank.
If drones are you thing, check out the Vexor. Even if you don't stay in it for long I think it's good to get a feel for the capabilities of each ship class (cruiser class is very popular for pvp for instance so you're likely to use it later on if your playstyle leads you in that direction). www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3348
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Posted - 2014.03.31 17:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:I'm not sure if it's possible to look at my profile or something and see where my character is at as far as skills and ISK and whatnot. EVEboard
Example: Tau Cabalander
How do I make a limited API? How do I get an API key for evemon? |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
349
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Normally I advise moving into a BC once you can fully fit a t2 tank of the appropriate type. Because we're talking about drone ships, which have a much larger difference in damage between untrained and perfect training than gunnery does, I recommend doing some more drone training while still in the vexor. Drone interfacing 4 is recommended, along with tech 2 light drones. If you plan on using sentries, sentry interfacing 4 is a good train once you're in the BC.
Total that will add around two weeks to your time in the vexor. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
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Machagon
Plate of Beans Incorporated Solar Destiny
61
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Posted - 2014.04.01 22:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'd say definitely get into a cruiser (Vexor, probably) first. If only because you might find that you love it so much that moving up to a Myrmidon seems less urgent. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2433
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Posted - 2014.04.03 00:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Definitely get into a Vexor as soon as the loss of a Vexor will not devastate you. A fitted Vexor will cost ~20m ISK.
Destroyers are *extremely* fragile and are hard to use as a result.
Here's something I'd recommend (this is a broad outline of a fit only):
High slots: Medium railguns that have "Meta Level 4" (cannot think of the name; these are affordable, high performance weapons). Carry Antimatter M for general use, Thorium M for long-range, and Caldari Navy Antimatter M for unexpected PVP (i.e. fit it the INSTANT a neutral player appears on grid with you whether you think they will attack or not).
Low slots: 1x Drone Damage Amplifier I (II as soon as possible), 2x Prototype Armor XXX Hardener (XXX being the damage type you are expecting in a given mission; so against Serpentis fit one Kinetic and one Thermic. Replace these with tech 2 versions soon); 1x Medium Armor Repairer II; 1x Damage Control II.
For the Damage Control, the named versions are very expensive and probably are not justified on a Vexor.
Medium slots: 10mn Experimental Afterburner I, and whatever else you want (I'm fond of Stasis Webifiers here)
Rigs: These are important. I recommend 3x Medium Auxillary Nano Pump I on a mission ship.
Drones: 5 Warrior I (the fastest drones), 5 Hammerhead I (the hardest-hitting drone you can probably use, I'm assuming you have not skilled into heavy drones yet), some spares of each. Upgrade to tech 2 when you can.
This will function well with low-ish skills. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
230
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Posted - 2014.04.03 00:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Baneken wrote:On the other hand BC is somewhat more generous in fitting wise then a cruiser and since they both still use the same modules I don't see much point in attempting to do lvl 3's in cruiser especially with low skills. it's takes roughly some 6 months of getting your skills good enough to try lvl 4's with a BS but I would recommend "a nanny" for your first attempt on lvl 4's or at least check the guides first.
Saves you a lot of time and isk.
This is a good idea - nobody told me that lvl 4 rats scram - lost my mission tempest that way on my very first lvl 4 - good times I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2433
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Posted - 2014.04.03 01:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Baneken wrote:On the other hand BC is somewhat more generous in fitting wise then a cruiser and since they both still use the same modules I don't see much point in attempting to do lvl 3's in cruiser especially with low skills. it's takes roughly some 6 months of getting your skills good enough to try lvl 4's with a BS but I would recommend "a nanny" for your first attempt on lvl 4's or at least check the guides first.
Saves you a lot of time and isk.
This is a good idea - nobody told me that lvl 4 rats scram - lost my mission tempest that way on my very first lvl 4 - good times
Rats warp disrupt even in some level 2 security missions. (None scram, however - you can always use an MWD or MJD).
The dangers a destroyer and a cruiser face are different (if you lose a dessie to rats, it's usually to a rapid burst of damage; a cruiser is usually lost to a warp disrupting frigate NPC holding you down while other rats kill you). But the dangers a cruiser and a BC face are the same. For that reason I do suggest practicing with a 20m cruiser before fielding a 60m-100m battlecruiser. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
503
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Posted - 2014.04.03 08:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
BCs are better as mission boats because missions are just straight-up comparisons of your stats to NPC stats that in reality the computer could just compare in 3 seconds to determine the outcome instead of making you spend an hour resolving them, and BCs allow for putting more and bigger numbers on your boat.
However, in the long run (at least since the last ship revamp) Cruisers are much more useful and flexible as general-use boats than BCs, both in the general sense of being able to viably take them more places and in the literal sense of giving you 3/4 the power of a BC for 1/5 the price if you're building intelligently.
So... honestly I'd say just put enough points in BC to grind your level 3 missions easily and then focus on Cruisers for your medium-category training (to the extent there's even a difference, given they use the same weapons and so on) unless you just absolutely fall in love with how the BC flies. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis CALSF
426
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Posted - 2014.04.03 08:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Basically, what they said above: if you're aiming for a Myrmidon (a choice which shows you have excellent taste, in my very biased opinion), then a Vexor is a great cheaper ship to practice with, to get your techniques down. There'll be some differences; the Vexor has a hybrid turret bonus in addition to its drone bonuses, while the Myrmidon is turret-agnostic and has a defensive bonus that can get it to tank like a brick.
Disclaimer: I fell in love with the Myrm when I first flew it. Your mileage may vary. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt |
Harbonah
Rubicon Spears
57
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Posted - 2014.04.03 20:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would advise maxing your drone skills before moving into a BC because BC is really the point where you can take full advantage of some of the more advanced drone modules. IE drone damage II or the Drone Control Range boosting modules.
I would train the following before moving into the Gallante Drone BC
Drones 5 Scout Drones 5 Drone Durability 3 Drone Interfacing 4-5 Drone Sharpshooting 4-5 Combat Drones 4 Gallante Drone Specialization 3
All EM, Thermal, Explosive, Kintetic Armor Resistances to 4 Capacitor management, cpu mangement, Hull, all to 4
Also get some of the T2 armor resistance modules. I prefer to shy away from the Energized versions because of the massive CPU cost but for a new player the Adaptive Nano Playing II's are nice.
One of the easier ways to see what you should train is to open the ISIS using alt-1 right click the ship. Look at the info, and train the skills listed to the levels required under Mastery 2. Then cherry pick the specifics skills after that for advancing to Skill level 4.
Gunnery is helpful but drones are your main weapon for a Vexor. |
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
3
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Posted - 2014.04.03 20:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
All very excellent info.
After playing for a few days in a cruiser, and looking at how much income I've got, I think it'd definitely wisest for me to sit on it while my skills catch up and I get my head around the game a little more.
Really appreciate the opinions. Just having different viewpoints is not what I'm used to. Most MMOs just tell you "Play/spec this way or GTFO". It's nice to see people having a reasonable discussion for once. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
379
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Posted - 2014.04.03 22:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:BCs are better as mission boats because missions are just straight-up comparisons of your stats to NPC stats that in reality the computer could just compare in 3 seconds to determine the outcome instead of making you spend an hour resolving them, And this is why all missions should be done in an incursus.
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:Really appreciate the opinions. Just having different viewpoints is not what I'm used to. Most MMOs just tell you "Play/spec this way or GTFO". It's nice to see people having a reasonable discussion for once. Agreed. Eve players are assholes. We're just polite assholes. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
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