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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2987
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ore Yield, ignoring non-ship skills as they'll modify the stats in the same way):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1os33ZVJKyRfG3GY3taX0Se25dlTbNOoCLHprP7WoRKQ/edit?usp=sharing
Fairly significant differences in yield
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:move survey scanner, ship scanner and cargo scanner to highslots, change strip miners to turrets, add utility highs to skiff and procurer?
hulks and covetors can rely on orca scan ("fleet ships"), macks and rets are afk anyway
then rework mining completely and scrap it all because mining is horrible
don't like the idea of the scans in high slots, nerfs ganking but i love the idea of the the hulk relying on the orca scans, was going to say give Hulks a range boost to surveys, but his idea is better.
also it be nice to give reason to mine as a crop or a fleet, people are better of mining solo with Alt's, like larger the fleet the more boosts the fleet get? (only in system) or more lases mining one rock the faster.
And a better fleet loot log, so it say that they mined, looted form a wreck/can or dumped it in/from a orca
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Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
46
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:01:00 -
[63] - Quote
Your math is off: you should be multiplying Procurer and Skiff yields by 2.5, not 1.5; it's a 150% bonus as compared to a 25% bonus.
ETA: As before the change, assuming equal numbers of MLUs, the tanky and high-ore-hold barges get identical yields. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1454
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
Interesting changes. I'm not a fan of nerfing the Mack but again I'm one that enjoys the cargo hold because I don't like can mining. Anywho, nice to see the effort in this.
Survey scanner - please can we finally get an update to the range now? Either that or add a faction ORE survey scanner with good range. The utility slot idea above is good but I'm sure you are looking at trade offs here. Anyway, 24km is not enough to be useful.
Finally, can we get either a little more base CPU or increase the reduction for the amount of CPU drawback on mining rigs and / or mining upgrades? Mack and hulk fits are a bit crazy...I mean we are talking like 10 CPU would make a world of difference.
Thanks! GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Louhbo
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
Increasing the drone bay of the procurer without increasing the bandwidth is no good. Bump up the bandwidth so that it can field a full flight of medium drones to make it comparable to the mack and hulk. |
Mindo Junde
Bunnie Slayers Redrum Fleet
1
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
How is this change going to mean more Covetors/Hulks and less Retrievers/Mackinaws?
There is nothing that will change the situation you created, other than annoy the Retrievers/Mackinaw pilots and please the skiff bait pilots.
You want more hulk pilots? Increase the ore bay, that's the only thing that'll get em appearing. |
oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
Louhbo wrote:Increasing the drone bay of the procurer without increasing the bandwidth is no good. Bump up the bandwidth so that it can field a full flight of medium drones to make it comparable to the mack and hulk.
means you can fit back up drone + mining drones. |
Commander A9
The Scope Gallente Federation
596
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
Maybe this is the frustration of someone watching CCP act nerf-happy since Inferno came out, but...
I haven't used my Hulk since the first barge change...and that doesn't impress me at all. I miss the days when Hulk was true king, of all aspects. I miss the exhumer specialities of pre-Inferno...when a skiff could safely get Mercoxit, or a Mackinaw out-classed all in an inc belt, and the Hulk reigned supreme
Hell, I miss the orange mining beams and audio sequences, which made me feel like I was actually blasting apart rocks...but those days are long-gone...
Were I to have any weight? I'd bring the specialities back...and I really don't like how all the barge/exhumer yields are pretty much the same. What's the benefit of having a Hulk now if you have no fleet to fly in?
And who thought it was a brilliant idea to give the Mackinaw a bigger hold than the Hulk? What was done was essentially parking a VW bug next to an 18-wheeler, and giving the Bug the cargo capacity of an aircraft carrier and calling it legit...
...and I really wish cargo rigs with apply to ore holds...
Yes, I know these concerns are a long-time coming, but if "no votes nerf boats," why is it I keep voting, and all my treasured boats keep getting nerfed and/or messed with?
Long ago, I maximized my Hulk skills for a reason... Recommendations: -enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters) -add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot) -less focus on graphics, more on mechanics Tune in to NewEdenRadio.com for awesome music! |
Dave Stark
4841
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:13:00 -
[69] - Quote
Louhbo wrote:Increasing the drone bay of the procurer without increasing the bandwidth is no good. Bump up the bandwidth so that it can field a full flight of medium drones to make it comparable to the mack and hulk.
why should a mining barge be on par with exhumers? |
Dave Stark
4841
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:16:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mindo Junde wrote:How is this change going to mean more Covetors/Hulks and less Retrievers/Mackinaws?
There is nothing that will change the situation you created, other than annoy the Retrievers/Mackinaw pilots and please the skiff bait pilots.
You want more hulk pilots? Increase the ore bay, that's the only thing that'll get em appearing.
or enough tank to take more than one catalyst to destroy it without having to nerf your yield to the point where anything with more tank would outmine it. |
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
130
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
My Skiff says thankie =3 |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
78
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
On the bright side, this is a nerf to bot aspirancy. Retrievers and Mackinaws are popular because they have good yield and large holds, which allows you to maximize your afk time.
On the downside, this will make multiboxing a mining fleet more profitable, as you can now set up a fleet of high yield skiffs/procurers, who are extremely difficult to gank. And with an orca or freighter, the smaller cargo bay is irrelevant.
The issue with mining hold is that its largely binary. Either it matters a lot(solo miner) or its completely irrelevant(in a fleet). |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
78
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Changing the mining bonus to a duration based one is of some help to the issue I will bring up. But the Skiff, and to some extent the Mack still have one big disadvantage compared to the Hulk: fewer strips. To see the issue consider:
Most miners target a roid and let the miner run its full cycle. If the roid is small some fraction of the cycle will be wasted. With the Hulk if one of your strips is on a small roid you will lose some small fraction of your yield, up to a maximum of one third.
But with the Skiff you could lose up to a complete cycle by targeting a small roid. As the single strip takes so much ore in one cycle there is a greater chance the roid will pop and you lose part of the cycle.
The result is under most practical uses, the Skiff mines much less than your table of numbers would indicate.
How to fix? I see three methods. 1) Redo the models so all mining ships have the same number of strips. 2) Make the strips on the Skiff cycle faster (but still produce the same cubic meters per minute). Of course the player can do this manually, but it just makes mining even more of a click fest. 3) Make it so if you mine a small roid the miner starts its cycle part way through so its timed to end just as the roid runs out of minerals. (This would fail if there are two strips on the same roid. But that is a rare case anyway).
#2 is the only one that can be done by just changing stats. The others require more coding.
This can be solved by scanning asteroids in order to maximize your return. |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
I am not amused.
While acknowledging that mining is not the most fun of activities, now you want to make it take longer? |
Apackof12Ninjas
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Awaiting confirmation that this is not a April Fools joke.
I am not amused |
twit brent
Black Anvil Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"
Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot |
Dave Stark
4841
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
twit brent wrote:"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"
Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot
ironically he's probably having the most fun; you know, not having to be at his pc and all. start your boosts then go and do your shopping, or go for a nice bike ride, etc. |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
423
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:twit brent wrote:"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"
Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot ironically he's probably having the most fun; you know, not having to be at his pc and all. start your boosts then go and do your shopping, or go for a nice bike ride, etc.
My favorite way to have fun playing EVE is not playing EVE. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
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Tharin Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
20
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
Skiffs will blot out the suns. |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
I know the Orca has not been balanced yet but would adding a single line of compression into it make the changes to the hulk more worth while as right now the amount of hulks needed to make using a single hauler still is more then the normal mining group. |
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Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Arclight OmniSystem Enterprises Arclight Consolidated
55
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
does the hulk not get a role bonus? Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever! |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2795
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:04:00 -
[82] - Quote
twit brent wrote:"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"
Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot what i thought a rorqual was a starbase module |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
277
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
Menor Minayin wrote:So targeting range goes up, what about the survey scanner?
Indeed. The thing is quite useless with full links already... |
Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
1381
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
Well, looks like Bait Skiffs will be the future for PVP use.
...and with the drone changes, I'm interested to see how that is going to impact some of the fits we implement. CSM9 Candidate | Twitter: @autoritare | Gmail: [email protected] Campaign Thread: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325889 My Blog: http://casualcapsuleer.wordpress.com | No-Local News Writer/Editor |
elitatwo
Congregatio
203
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:11:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The Retriever and Mackinaw keep the solo and low-attention mining crown thanks to their untouched massive ore bays. They'll be getting a slight decrease to their yield to help moderate their strength, as the previous round of balancing underestimated how much players value ore hold size.
Please consider one aspect of that activity and do it sometime..
Sitting in a mining boat and slowboating to the next pile of rocks takes longer then warping away and using a ceptor to bookmark the rocks you want to mine beforehand.
If you change systems, you may not want to 'scout and bookmark' your rocks as it cut down your time in the site / belt.
So consider to add a little powergrid and cpu to fit at least a 10nm afterburner to reposition yourself in sites / belts.
Oh, I almost forgot, a 2-slot shield tank looks kinda iffy on the Procurer.
For your consideration signature |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
277
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Anhenka wrote: Can you or I refine at equal or higher %'s postpatch? Sure. Will there be enough people refining at a lower yield than current? I think so.
Yeah this is one thing most people on here are ignoring. Just because grwater refining yields "can" be possible that does not mean they will be. CCP itself said it wants refining to be a specialized area requiring significant time commitment. That means less peoplr will train it and not nearly as many will have perfect refine on patch day as there are now.
Anyone who thinks mineral/ore prices are dropping in the short/mid term is crazy. Prices will rise, even if only from panic buying. And if there is upward price pressure from structural changes everyone is gonna wish they bought while Trit was still under 5.50 per unit. |
Jamir Von Lietuva
LDK Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
7
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:24:00 -
[87] - Quote
wow another nerf to pirat |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
78
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
This looks like a stealth nerf to suicide gankers. It pushes miners into tankier ships.
The retriever and Mackinaw should have a higher yield, as there is a higher risk in flying them. Mining in a procurer in high sec is almost risk free.
The reason they are popular is that people undervalue this risk. If you consider how much ganks hurt your isk per hour, a skiff is already a smarter choice than a Mackinaw unless you are really good. This change just makes the choice even easier. |
twit brent
Black Anvil Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:Dave Stark wrote:twit brent wrote:"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"
Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot ironically he's probably having the most fun; you know, not having to be at his pc and all. start your boosts then go and do your shopping, or go for a nice bike ride, etc. My favorite way to have fun playing EVE is not playing EVE.
Maybe we can try for a large boost to fuel bay capacity. That way I can go down to the beach or cinemas. Or maybe i could just sit on the lawn and watch some grass grow. |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
5
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Posted - 2014.04.01 19:50:00 -
[90] - Quote
The Cycle time reduction per level has not been balanced by a cap reduction?
is this intentional or will it be fixed by a general cap reduction in laser usage
Also roid scanners need boosting. there limited to 22km but max range setup on the hulk will be 55.625km is targeting range of all barges exhumers going to be buffed to make use of the 56km range?
Also 300 dps skiff sounds fun :) |
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