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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
323
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:57:00 -
[601] - Quote
I just want to say that changing Sentry Drone Operation to Drone Avionics is NOT clarify its role. If clarification is the goal then Keep Sentry Drone Operation named as such, since it is the required skill to Operate sentry drones.
It is slightly confusing how Amarr drones are rated towards Minmatar on the slider for mobile drones and towards Gallente for sentry. One would naturally assume they would be in the same place on both graphs.
There is no mention of the disparity in hit points between the different racial drones. Examples: Hammerhead II - 710/288/134 = 1132 Infiltrator II - 403/288/96 = 787 Valkrie II - 346/230/154 = 730 Vespa II - 326/211/250 = 787
There is a clear disparity here that should be addressed in any drone rebalance.
That said, if this is an april fools joke, you got me. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Dyntheos
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:59:00 -
[602] - Quote
didnt read all the 30 pages, so might have been brought up before..
1) with supercarriers getting a 100% role bonus, isnt this a stealth buff for them as their DCUs will be twice as effective as before? or do people not use them?
2) 60% tracking bonus for bouncers (rest changes only slightly) seems rather much, considering they are together with gardes sentry gangs' most used drone (and will likely remain that way) and already quite powerful. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20434
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:01:00 -
[603] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:I just want to say that changing Sentry Drone Operation to Drone Avionics is NOT clarify its role. Maybe because that's not what they're doing.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BraiZure Harloon
A-31 Tardis Unlocked
20
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:04:00 -
[604] - Quote
On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf? On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9608
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:29:00 -
[605] - Quote
BraiZure Harloon wrote:On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf? On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless.
Your math is flawed.
Currently you can look at the way drone interfacing interacts with base drone damage as: 1 x 2 = 2 After this change it will be: 1.33(repeating) x 1.5 = 2 Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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The Ironfist
Nordgoetter Northern Associates.
15
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:36:00 -
[606] - Quote
CCP Fozzie any ETA on when you'll release the stats on the new modules? Especially the faction versions? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
598
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:37:00 -
[607] - Quote
just remove all ewar drones. damage and logistics drones (make cap transfer drones pls) are enough. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
162
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:55:00 -
[608] - Quote
concerning standard drones, what way will tracking and optimal / falloff progress across the races ?
Will tracking follow damage and range follow speed ?
It would make sense that slow drones would be optimised for slower targets and end up orbiting therefore tracking. It would make sense that fast drones would be optimised for fast targets and end up chasing therefore optimal/fall off.
or something different ? |
Luscius Uta
73
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:57:00 -
[609] - Quote
Finally, Fozzie makes some changes that I almost completely agree with!
But of course I still managed to found few things to complain about - while it's good that Amarr and Caldari drones will stop being useless, you're doing it wrong, Fozzie. People will still use Gallente drones for damage and Minmatar drones when they want speed and Amarr and Caldari drones are still going to be inferior to them (save from some specific situations, like fighting Tengu fleets), unless you realise that there's more stuff in the drone equation than just speed and damage. Why not give the best tank to Caldari drones and best tracking to Amarr drones (or the other way around)?
Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training (unless Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will have 1x traning time multiplier, which I think would be more appropriate than 2x). Yes, I know you could train Combat Drone Operation V to make this issue non-relevant, but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.
Changes to fighters and bombers are the most controversial undoubtely, especially how DDAs will now affect them. For Fighters I think it's still a good thing as they need some love. Hopefully this will make Drone regions less deserted as some Nyx pilots will go leaps and bounds just to put an officer DDA on their ship. Fighters still deserve another buff (like +20% damage) since their main use now is to assist ratting Tengus and, aside from being able to warp, they hardly have any advantage over Heavies and Sentries in PvP. also it's good to see Shadow bombers getting some love, hopefully you also plan to buff the Revenant to make it more en par with pirate subcapital ships and less of a Rolex watch. Also can't wait for those faction DDAs to come out so I can put them on my ratting Gila, Ishtar and Rattlesnake. |
Aerozzz
Afragoi Ltd
5
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:00:00 -
[610] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught. The TRI super you recently tackled probably wouldn't have survived the DDs from the titans, if he had 2 less tank modules in the lows.
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GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
44
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:01:00 -
[611] - Quote
Morning CCP Fozzie, Any chance of looking into the activation proximity stats? Pretty much all of the non-sentry drones / fighters have an activation proximity that is lower than their optimal / falloff, in theory this prevents drones from applying their earliest damage to a target while on approach. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:07:00 -
[612] - Quote
GeeBee wrote:Morning CCP Fozzie, Any chance of looking into the activation proximity stats? Pretty much all of the non-sentry drones / fighters have an activation proximity that is lower than their optimal / falloff, in theory this prevents drones from applying their earliest damage to a target while on approach.
This was actually the fix that drones needed.
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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:09:00 -
[613] - Quote
How in hell does the word Avionics clarify anything, when most people will have no idea what the word even means? |
Doc Banshee
Baby Seal Bashing Club Cynosural Field Theory.
10
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:44:00 -
[614] - Quote
Aerozzz wrote:[
1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer
Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P
Strider doesn't count. Hes a lowsec scrub like me.
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
385
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:52:00 -
[615] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:make cap transfer drones pls
Yes pls. Cap drones would be really usefull Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
598
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:10:00 -
[616] - Quote
Doc Banshee wrote:Aerozzz wrote:[
1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer
Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P Strider doesn't count. Hes a lowsec scrub like me.
all are scrubs |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:16:00 -
[617] - Quote
I never understood why you wanted mwd on drones anyways.
Makes them clunk around when trying to engage fast targets.
Take this opportunity to remove drone mwd and give em high top speeds on the order of maybe upto 8k for t2 warriors. Make there agility somewhat less that a typical fast frig.
Frig runs in a straight line it gets gunned down. Frig evades, drones have trouble keeping up.
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:17:00 -
[618] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training (unless Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will have 1x traning time multiplier, which I think would be more appropriate than 2x). Yes, I know you could train Combat Drone Operation V to make this issue non-relevant, but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.
This inconsistency between "We want to make it less skill intensive" and "we're moving the training from a 1x skill into two 2x skills" is one of my problems with these proposed changes. i'm still baffled that there's been absolutely no attempt to address the issues around which skills are actually going to unlock light and medium drones. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:30:00 -
[619] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Tippia wrote: It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) +ù1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.4 (DI IV) +ù1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) +ù1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).
So my exploration Ishtar is going to do 748 DPS instead of its current 800 DPS, assuming I train for 19 days to get Gallente spec up to 5. That blows. Starting to look like its gonna take 19 days and 400mil in faction DDAs to make my Garde IIs perform the same as they do now. And I still won't be able to control them via F1-F5 like any other weapon in game. Or move around while using them. Arg. Given the cost of T2 sentries and the training needed to get to Sentry V to qualify, I can see the use of T2 sentries dropping off as more and more newer players look at it and decide to stick with T1. T2 probably are barely worth it under new rules unless you already have them trained. If I get the gist of the original blog what they wanted is new players to be able to train interfacing to IV and Sentry to IV and still be almost as effective as a fully skilled player. Currently taking those two skills from IV to V gives you something like a 50% total damage hike.
With sentry drone interfacing 4(5%), drone interfacing 4(10%) and without the spec skill(10%) you will be 25% under the max dps. 25% is still a very big amount of dps(comparable to useing meta 4 guns with faction ammo to T2 ones with max dps T2 ammo) and well worth getting, plus the extra range, HP and tracking on T2 sentry drones is a extreme good improvement over T1 without even looking at the extra dps. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:47:00 -
[620] - Quote
The Djego wrote:
With sentry drone interfacing 4(5%), drone interfacing 4(10%) and without the spec skill(10%) you will be 25% under the max dps. 25% is still a very big amount of dps(comparable to useing meta 4 guns with faction ammo to T2 ones with max dps T2 ammo) and well worth getting, plus the extra range, HP and tracking on T2 sentry drones is a extreme good improvement over T1 without even looking at the extra dps.
True, but then there's the Faction Sentries with equal dps (without the racial 10%) and range, but better EHP and tracking.
FW loyalty point stores needed a buff, right |
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:49:00 -
[621] - Quote
Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2.
Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2.
Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.
Edit2: There might be a reason why I had a lot of suggestions(that where all ignored) during the introduction of faction drones 3 years ago and now CCP actually addressing most of the flaws I pointed out back in the days, that they should be rather a good option compared to T2 drones, depending on what you want to do, instead of becoming pointless the second you can use T2 drones. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:09:00 -
[622] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2. Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.
Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones. All specs at V is what, about two months of training with optimized attributes and +5s.
Which will make cloaky stabbed FW farmers very happy indeed.
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
513
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:09:00 -
[623] - Quote
Aerozzz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught. The TRI super you recently tackled probably wouldn't have survived the DDs from the titans, if he had 2 less tank modules in the lows. seth Hendar wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: stuff...
pl ranting about isboxer.....like really? it's not like pl is using it massively.....hint: PHEW 1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P there are more than one, just this is the one i came accross on a regular basis |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:24:00 -
[624] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:The Djego wrote:Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2. Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task. Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones. All specs at V is what, about two months of training with optimized attributes and +5s. Which will make cloaky stabbed FW farmers very happy indeed.
Well a T2 sentry cost you 1.2-1.5M, a faction one 5-6.5M each. If you carry 2 waves on a drone boat this means a extra 40M just in drones, what is a considerable cost in pvp. Also since you don't have Sentry drone Interfacing to 5 at the point you use faction ones for skill reasons the difference is 13-15%, what is still a lot(I got mini and gallente spec on 5 on multiple chars, because you will use a set of light mini or gallente drones on nearly every ship you fly). I never looked back at training sentry drone spec to 5 on any of my chars, it is fairly comparable with training a large turret spec to 5 in usefulness and saves tons of ISK whenever you lose some sentry drones or the hole ship.
Btw Fozzy has yet to decide what to do with caladri and amarr drones, the changes so far are not useful enough, caldari sentry's have a super long range niche(maybe for mjd BS) and while amarr sentry drones gain some ground, only useful changes to the other drones as well would give a good reason to put the skill to 5. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
14
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:26:00 -
[625] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote: Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones.
Exactly - with this new patch, the motivation to train from tech1/faction (which is in many cases equal-to or even superior to tech2 sentries, not counting the racial spec skills) to tech2 sentries diminishes greatly.
For a PVP-oriented sentry pilot, there will likely be *zero* motivation to train for tech2 sentries--and for those of us who did train for tech2's, our training time investment has largely gone down the proverbial drain.
This is a point I have tried to articulate repeatedly in this thread. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:38:00 -
[626] - Quote
Currently with the lack of range there was nearly never a good reason to use faction sentry drones in pvp for people that can use T2s already and not everyone getting all her stuff from her alliance SRP, if you have to stuff another 40M in every domi or Ishar you pvp with, you might think about investing the extra 20 days, what gives you 5% more dps with both, what still leaves you the faction option but also gives you a high dps T2 option, what is cheaper and more frequently available in low sec and 0.0 on the markets.
Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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stoicfaux
4382
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:53:00 -
[627] - Quote
In other words, by making Faction drones just as good as, if not better, than T2 drones in terms of accessibility (i.e. skill training time,) CCP has indirectly nerfed the null-sec cartels' shadow CSM's moon goo income by reducing the market for T2 sentry drones.
Who wants to give Dinsdale the good news that CCP is on the side of high-sec?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1123
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:10:00 -
[628] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf? On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless. Your math is flawed. Currently you can look at the way drone interfacing interacts with base drone damage as: 1 x 2 = 2 After this change it will be: 1.33(repeating) x 1.5 = 2
Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? |
Abigail Sagan
Skeleton Liberation Front
50
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:20:00 -
[629] - Quote
seller1122 wrote:I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.
The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.
Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.
Too long, didn't read. Rebalance the drones already! .. Oh, this is actually about drone rebalance. Finally! After reading it all, we can however see that the Amarr and Caldari drones won't still have any use - like many have said here already.
Here is my solution suggestion for the regular Amarr/Caldari drone suckage (exactly the same as seller1122's apparently and shares some similarities with Tippia's on page 6):
Amarr/Minmatar light drones share the same stats except for damage type at high speed and low damage end. Caldari and Gallente light drones share their stats similarly at the low speed and high damage end. Repeat the process with medium and heavy drones.
I chose Amarr to pair up with Minmatar, because both target a defense weakness (EM vs most Shields, EX vs most Armor). Caldari was paired with Gallente just because they don't have any especially vulnerable targets and there is nobody else to pair them with.
Pro: All the regular drones would have their use. Con: Duplicated stats. .. but at least all the regular drones would have their use. That is not the case with CCP's plan.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9609
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:53:00 -
[630] - Quote
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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