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Shelom Severasse
Lusitan Initiative
5
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Posted - 2014.04.03 05:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
is anyone else noticing how extremely expensive these things are getting? almost cost prohibitive.
due to the nature of eve pvp, mostly frigates are flown in low sec, so the demand for the small aar compared to the medium and large is much higher.
if you are brawling, you are more than likely active tanked (active > buffer), and with frigates, the metagame is to go in with everything o/h.
this ideology can also be applied to armor reppers; since the aar frontloads repping power it is essentially a t2 small repper that has the same* repping power as a medium t2 repper (for 8 cycles)
so basically the aar is way better than the t2 variant and should definitely be more expensive.
but 2.9m-3.3m for a FRIGATE sized module? and is yet increasing? i do not believe so. (side note: as the aar prices go up, the prices of nanite paste will go down as less people will use it so i guess thats kind of a win)
but
would it totally mess with pvp as we know it if the drop rate for the BPC for small aar's was increased? not by much, but enough so that a t1 frig with t2 fittings and aar (counting cargo so ammo and nanite) isnt a 14m kill? i mean at that point you might as well only fly AFs as 2 t1 frigs @ 14m will pay for the hull. (maybe 14m is a bit on the high end but i have a few tormentor losses that are quite painful for a t1 frig)
thoughts?
* not exactly, but close |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards Stealth Wear Inc.
531
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 06:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah I have noticed this as well and it would definitely be nice to see a reduction in the price of SAARs. I always wondered why it's so expensive, are the drops really that rare? ASBs are obtained in a similar manner if I'm not mistaken and those are pretty cheap comparatively. |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers Noir. Mercenary Group
21
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Posted - 2014.04.03 07:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
AFAIK, these BPC's are random drops from scan sites. The reason the small ones are expensive is most likely due to the fact alot of frigates use them and get blown up constantly. Much like the Medium Ancillary Shield booster has a nice price tag compared to the other sized ones.
You want them cheaper? Scan down some sites and build them yourself. The market has spoken. |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards Stealth Wear Inc.
531
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaea Astridsson wrote:AFAIK, these BPC's are random drops from scan sites. The reason the small ones are expensive is most likely due to the fact alot of frigates use them and get blown up constantly. Much like the Medium Ancillary Shield booster has a nice price tag compared to the other sized ones.
You want them cheaper? Scan down some sites and build them yourself. The market has spoken.
Even if you build them yourself and get them cheaper, you're incurring an oopportunity cost of the profit you would make by selling them on the market, so they are not actually 'cheaper'.
However you make a good point, market forces in Eve are very important and though I would like cheaper SAARs, the market has spoken and I doubt CCP would interfere just to make it cheaper. |
Kosetzu
S1lver Flame
106
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Last I checked most of the Ancillary reppers weren't worth making even if you randomly got the BPC as you got more profit from selling the minerals directly. |
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
*points at meta4 Damage Controls, Webs and Scrams...* |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers Noir. Mercenary Group
21
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Posted - 2014.04.03 08:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mineral cost of building one run SAAR ~10k Sell price for module, ~1 900 000.
Want to remember the copies having at least three runs to them.
And Dato yes, it's not "cheaper" to build them yourself as you loose the chance to sell them. Bad formulation from my part. Don't want more miner/producers thinking minerals is free just because they mined them themselves.
Point being, you cannot arbritarily lower prices like that. Doing so would surely make some scanner out there sad seeing the paper he was just selling is now worthless.
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Dato Koppla
Elite Guards Stealth Wear Inc.
531
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Those are completely different as they have numerous alternative modules, meta 1-3, faction, T2 etc. All 3 are also quite valuable because they are better than T2 (except Meta 4 DCU which has significant fitting benefits but slightly less resists). SAARs have no alternative modules, no meta, no T2, so you're stuck with only this one option if you want a SAAR. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
191
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Small AAR is one of the very few remaining exploration BPCs that is not unprofitable to build. All of the exploration BPCs should drop less often, rather than in the plethora they do now. |
Anneke Tersis
The brothers inc Brothers Of The Dark Sun
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Small AAR is one of the very few remaining exploration BPCs that is not unprofitable to build. All of the exploration BPCs should drop less often, rather than in the plethora they do now.
+1 |
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Liam Inkuras
Aunenen Civil Liberties Union
910
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
2mill is nothing on a frig. Stop complaining. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Syrias Bizniz
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
274
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Supply and demand.
If you don't feel comfortable to pay 2m more so your glass cannon stand longer than 10 seconds, come up with a fit that will work with a T2 repper :) |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2066
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kosetzu wrote:Last I checked most of the Ancillary reppers weren't worth making even if you randomly got the BPC as you got more profit from selling the minerals directly.
15,941,998 isk/hour if you can keep a line running. I'd say that's worth making. MASBs make a paltry 5mil isk/hour in comparison. The others are crap though. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
557
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's just that the small AAR is the premier ideal fits-all-frigs tanking module that is - given the duration of a frigduel - a must-have. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
Starbuck05
Evil Monkey Asylum Evil Monkeys Asylum
167
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
What i wanna know is that.. can a bpo of the saar be found in relic/data sites? -á- I am the commanding officer , u should adress me as sir ! -á- But if i call u sir , what would i call your wife then ?? |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
192
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Starbuck05 wrote:What i wanna know is that.. can a bpo of the saar be found in relic/data sites?
What do you think... |
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
83
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 08:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Those are completely different as they have numerous alternative modules, meta 1-3, faction, T2 etc. All 3 are also quite valuable because they are better than T2 (except Meta 4 DCU which has significant fitting benefits but slightly less resists). SAARs have no alternative modules, no meta, no T2, so you're stuck with only this one option if you want a SAAR.
ehhhh T2 is another option...
some people prefer T2 on their vengeance for example... since once the AAR runs out of nanite repair paste your repping power drops by a lot...
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Alek Azam
Screaming Hayabusa
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
By Jove I've got it!
Buy a legion armor booster and use the T2 repper! |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
220
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shelom Severasse wrote:is anyone else noticing how extremely expensive these things are getting? almost cost prohibitive.
due to the nature of eve pvp, mostly frigates are flown in low sec, so the demand for the small aar compared to the medium and large is much higher.
if you are brawling, you are more than likely active tanked (active > buffer), and with frigates, the metagame is to go in with everything o/h.
this ideology can also be applied to armor reppers; since the aar frontloads repping power it is essentially a t2 small repper that has the same* repping power as a medium t2 repper (for 8 cycles)
so basically the aar is way better than the t2 variant and should definitely be more expensive.
but 2.9m-3.3m for a FRIGATE sized module? and is yet increasing? i do not believe so. (side note: as the aar prices go up, the prices of nanite paste will go down as less people will use it so i guess thats kind of a win)
but
would it totally mess with pvp as we know it if the drop rate for the BPC for small aar's was increased? not by much, but enough so that a t1 frig with t2 fittings and aar (counting cargo so ammo and nanite) isnt a 14m kill? i mean at that point you might as well only fly AFs as 2 t1 frigs @ 14m will pay for the hull. (maybe 14m is a bit on the high end but i have a few tormentor losses that are quite painful for a t1 frig)
thoughts?
* not exactly, but close Wow, someone has less ISK than I do.
Seriously though, less than I do.
For real this time, SAARs have become pretty much the standard fitting and given the limited nature of the module the price will respond to the demand. You will know when it becomes cost prohibitive when people stop buying them and the market is allowed to get much more competition going which will drive the price down. In the meantime even 3 mil isn't that much to spend unless you somehow have less ISK than I do. |
Gregor Parud
412
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. |
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Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
907
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc.
If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Gregor Parud
412
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value.
I'd say that the people who buy these AAR at current prices pretty much agree to the cost being low enough compared to their value. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2040
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 21:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
The supply is just outstripped by demand.
frigs die a lot. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
935
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 07:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value. I'd say that the people who buy these AAR at current prices pretty much agree to the cost being low enough compared to their value. That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Kosetzu
S1lver Flame
107
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 09:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value. I'd say that the people who buy these AAR at current prices pretty much agree to the cost being low enough compared to their value. That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP. Then what about those who make them? Go back to making 300 isk per module? To be honest too much of the market has been crashed by overeager market PvPers that doesn't see the build cost when they crash the prices. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
935
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 09:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kosetzu wrote:Zappity wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value. I'd say that the people who buy these AAR at current prices pretty much agree to the cost being low enough compared to their value. That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP. Then what about those who make them? Go back to making 300 isk per module? To be honest too much of the market has been crashed by overeager market PvPers that doesn't see the build cost when they crash the prices. Increase small drops, decrease medium and large so it all balances out. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Syrias Bizniz
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
277
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 10:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Actually, if people started looting a lot more, you'd see a lot more blueprints in circulation. Cause, behold, they drop for example from 0.0 beltrats. Those drops even have 25/50 runs. |
Gregor Parud
413
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 11:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value. I'd say that the people who buy these AAR at current prices pretty much agree to the cost being low enough compared to their value. That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP.
No, why would explorers or manufacturers care for "encouraging frigate PVP through selling for less profit", you're just using it as a (not so) veiled excuse because you find them to be costly. As long as people are willing to buy a product for a given price they thus agree that the price (cost) is worth the item (value).
If you want those prices to drop you can always start doing exploration or ratting. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
938
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 11:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Zappity wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:The market is always right. Demand increased as people began to realise how good they are which affects prices. Economy 101, HTFU etc. If the market was always right then climate change, habitat loss, water pollution and soil degradation would be much less of a problem. The market is good at cost and useless for value. I'd say that the people who buy these AAR at current prices pretty much agree to the cost being low enough compared to their value. That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP. No, why would explorers or manufacturers care for "encouraging frigate PVP through selling for less profit", you're just using it as a (not so) veiled excuse because you find them to be costly. As long as people are willing to buy a product for a given price they thus agree that the price (cost) is worth the item (value). If you want those prices to drop you can always start doing exploration or ratting. It was not intended to be veiled. I meant that CCP should encourage PvP, not explorers. Or are you certain that CCP got the right values the first time they set the loot tables? You would not see such skewed results between the sizes if so. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2127
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 12:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zappity wrote:That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP.
About as useless as this. There is plenty of frigate PVP these days. Not everyone "needs" this module. And there is nothing wrong with having some modules that give some benefit for those willing to pay. |
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