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Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
16
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Posted - 2014.04.04 14:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
first
this is features and ideas, not new citizens.
second no
I've got less than a year under my belt, in that time I have switched training from my main twice to do PI alts. I'm more than happy with how I can fit ships and what ships I can fly.
Your friends need to HTFU |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
431
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 14:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Gap is huge and takes a lot to seal, but you might be looking at it in a wrong way.
1) every class of ships have limited SP you can allocate in it. You can be competitive frigate pilot in 2 months. You will be however limited to that ship 2) skills give only so much and you tend to loose by tens of percents not just few of them. Fights when that +5% armor matters are rare tbh. It's more of a rock - paper - scissors thing when it comes to eve 3) even really new players are good for fleets. Tracking disruptors, dampeners and ECM work almost exactly as well no matter who's using them. You don't even have to fly an ewar ship to use them (well - maybe with ECM it is needed). You join a fleet of cruisers with your pitiful frigate, and then destroy optimal/tracking of the target. It works. 4)I found that isk is more of a problem in FW zone than SP. You need cash to keep these navy frigs comming. Still - I used kestrel and condor for 5 months and lived with it. I even killed stuff solo.
P2W makes me angry cause there's no limit to that usually. I prefer subscriptions cause they are fair. Spending countless cash on gear/ammo would make me quit in literally 1 day.
Some really good points - I'll reply to them since you took a lot of time to make a solid contribution to the thread.
1) Total agree - however support skills that a non-ship-specific make a big difference. 2) Agree'd. but there isn't just 1 5% skill - there are a few dousen - especially in frigates. A small ammount of extra fitting, shield, hull etc. can all add up to a BIG advantage. 3) Real alliances run SRP's to replace expensive, high SP ships - it is frowned upon or outright not acceptable to bring something along the lines of what your talking about. Also: What if the pilot doesn't want to be a 'Space Healer'? What if they don't want to be the 'Support who wards'? 4) What you fly should be based on what you can afford - increasing your SP results in no ISK gain if you don't know HOW to earn money efficiently - that wouldn't change.
Also "Pay 2 Win" was an ironic statement: Because older players have paid for years and have a multitude of advantages that a new player doesn't have even if they had identical SP. It's actually closer to "Pay to catch up" |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 15:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Gap is huge and takes a lot to seal, but you might be looking at it in a wrong way.
1) every class of ships have limited SP you can allocate in it. You can be competitive frigate pilot in 2 months. You will be however limited to that ship 2) skills give only so much and you tend to loose by tens of percents not just few of them. Fights when that +5% armor matters are rare tbh. It's more of a rock - paper - scissors thing when it comes to eve 3) even really new players are good for fleets. Tracking disruptors, dampeners and ECM work almost exactly as well no matter who's using them. You don't even have to fly an ewar ship to use them (well - maybe with ECM it is needed). You join a fleet of cruisers with your pitiful frigate, and then destroy optimal/tracking of the target. It works. 4)I found that isk is more of a problem in FW zone than SP. You need cash to keep these navy frigs comming. Still - I used kestrel and condor for 5 months and lived with it. I even killed stuff solo.
P2W makes me angry cause there's no limit to that usually. I prefer subscriptions cause they are fair. Spending countless cash on gear/ammo would make me quit in literally 1 day. Some really good points - I'll reply to them since you took a lot of time to make a solid contribution to the thread. 1) Total agree - however support skills that a non-ship-specific make a big difference. 2) Agree'd. but there isn't just 1 5% skill - there are a few dousen - especially in frigates. A small ammount of extra fitting, shield, hull etc. can all add up to a BIG advantage. 3) Real alliances run SRP's to replace expensive, high SP ships - it is frowned upon or outright not acceptable to bring something along the lines of what your talking about. Also: What if the pilot doesn't want to be a 'Space Healer'? What if they don't want to be the 'Support who wards'? 4) What you fly should be based on what you can afford - increasing your SP results in no ISK gain if you don't know HOW to earn money efficiently - that wouldn't change. Also "Pay 2 Win" was an ironic statement: Because older players have paid for years and have a multitude of advantages that a new player doesn't have even if they had identical SP. It's actually closer to "Pay to catch up"
1) yes - but it takes a lot longer to take them from IV to V that it did to bring them from 0-IV. Because of that you might expect the other dude will not have them maxed either, and if he does - that it's still just a couple of %. Don't get me wrong - he will be better and will have easier time, I just think that predicting correctly what the other guy has and attacking him with counter fit gives you better adventage than counting on him having inferior skills. 2) good point. Sadly you are right here. Still - you can sacrifice under a month to get some important skills maxed. Other than that - you could use meta. Expensive and inferior, but not by a margin of unplayable. 3) Well - hard core alliances will not accept a newbie anyway. Too much teaching, too much of an SP requirement (from what I've seen - they demend sth like 20M +). It's different recruitment target realy so I think this point is not realy valid. 4) ISK profit depends strongly on knowing the meta (or generally - game environment). CCP should do better job at making new players experience more educating. They should also update those shamelessly lying wiki pages (or give me the isk I lost because of them back, damm it!)
Any form of p2w boosting will be heavily abused by older players. As things are currently - it would prolly be available for isk (plex) so they would be winning without realy paying. People are just like that.
Even if you restrict SP (or anything else tbh) boosting to younger characters it will act as a detterant, because they will feel like they were sucked dry by a game that doesn't offer nothing but subscription fees and microtransactions.
Also - maybe it's just me but when I see gold ammo, and I know I will never use it, I loose my will to play because I suspect that I will keep meeting people who outpaced me. This is were the feeling that "there's a gap I will never close" is for me.
As for power balance - yeah. EVE is about older players feeding of newbies :D You sell to them, you buy from them, you kill/pod them, and then you manipulate the market. But you can look at EVE from other perspective - detoxication after too much time in wow-clones. Singature Radius 48 m |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
431
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nothing particularly shocking to read - all good points. I think the balance issues are almost self-fixing in most of the instances you've pointed out.
As you've said most skills trained to level 4 are sufficient to perform well, so a new player who intelligently trained 5-10 skills using (e.g.) 1-million 'Bought' SP would gain a lot more than someone who its 5 years into the game and is buying 'Caldari Dreadnaught 5'. The amount of SP required to go from level 1-4 is tiny compared to 4-5, it's almost exponential actually. The SP system favours starting a skill rather than perfecting it.
RMT is rife in ALL online games - offering 'SP-4-Cash' is simply not a service third-party company can offer. It's also considerably more 'Micro' than buying a character with 10's of millions of SP that you don't want 90% of... you just want, for example, lvl4 for all your gunnery support skills. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3933
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Ooofft, lots of hate, personal attacks, extreme edge case scenarios etc. - I knew this would be a hot topic but I didn't expect it to take off quite so quickly.
I'm also pleasantly surprised that amidst the anger and bile most people where inherently agreeing with the base concept of why this idea isn't game breaking:
Buying SP doesn't make you a better pilot. It doesn't give you any experience in HOW to play eve or how to be successful. Players with years of experience can use trial accounts to get good kills in PVP. This is an excellent example of how experience trumps skill points in almost every situation - further developing the notion that buying SP would not give a player any real advantage due to a fundamental experience gap.
Even more accurately, having SP to spend doesn't mean they will even spend it on the 'right' things - but they will get what they want and if this brings them enjoyment then all power to them.
However - and here is the kicker: Having the SP to fly effective ships (especially during a meta switch e.g. when HML's where nerfed or when Marauders where buffed) can open up opportunities for players to GET experience. Being able to fly a fleet-doctrine ship can take weeks/months for players who start with a deficit. Equally someone who very quickly nails PVE and enjoys it (missions/incursions/explo-sites) and makes good money from it is stopped from moving into the next level because a larger ship requires an arbitrary amount of time to achieve the required 'break points' of DPS/Tank etc. that the more advances challenges require.
SP <> Skill. That applies to people who are 1 week old and people who are 10 years into the game. Just because you have 200M SP I wont think you're a good pilot. I'll just this you auto-renew a subscription.
Anyway - bring on the flames. It seems people get really but-hurt over the prospect of easily to kill newbies in shiny ships...
Too bad you fail to so that even when you are training for ship "x" with fit "y" you can be useful in other ways.
When I first started to PvP, I could by far fly the doctrine ships required, but unlike you, I didn't complain about it and asked for P2W.
I just asked, what can I do to assist. I flew similar style ships or just tackle ships till I was on par with the doctrine. Nothing stops you from being useful, even if you can't fly the exact doctrine fit. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3934
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote: 1) Total agree - however support skills that a non-ship-specific make a big difference. 2) Agree'd. but there isn't just 1 5% skill - there are a few dousen - especially in frigates. A small ammount of extra fitting, shield, hull etc. can all add up to a BIG advantage. 3) Real alliances run SRP's to replace expensive, high SP ships - it is frowned upon or outright not acceptable to bring something along the lines of what your talking about. Also: What if the pilot doesn't want to be a 'Space Healer'? What if they don't want to be the 'Support who wards'? 4) What you fly should be based on what you can afford - increasing your SP results in no ISK gain if you don't know HOW to earn money efficiently - that wouldn't change.
Also "Pay 2 Win" was an ironic statement: Because older players have paid for years and have a multitude of advantages that a new player doesn't have even if they had identical SP. It's actually closer to "Pay to catch up"
1. Support skills to 4 only take about an extra month. 2. Nope. They do not match up in such a big difference they make a BIG difference. Someone with 2 weeks of experience and level 4 skills will kill someone who bought those SP to get level 5. 3. Uhm, then you are in a **** alliance. The ones I been in did SRP if you brought a ship that was useful in the doctrine, it didn't have to be the exact same fit as long as it was in line of what the doctrine was based upon. 4. So, why would you want to buy SP then. That's the beauty of the current system, with the time you get the SP to fly a ship, you also get the time to earn it, you just proven that your entire point of buying SP is useless... Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3934
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote: Any form of p2w boosting will be heavily abused by older players.
This.
You also totally forgot about Malcanis' Law. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
292
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
I love all the lists! All we need now are graphs.
The character Bazaar + Plex give you all the 'pay to win' mechanics that you really need. You can buy a 100 million skillpoint character today and 'pimp' to taste any ship that pilot can fly.
This at least gives some level of balance that that 100 mil character is going to have a history and can't have a name change.
Realistically you could probably spend 100-200 bucks and get a pretty good pilot + whatever ship you wanted to fly (sub-cap).
Any new player that I've ever seen buy a toon off the character bazaar in their first month or two of playing usually quits the game. A different pay to win mechanic may bring more players in, but it won't keep more players. What would the challenge be? |
Ethikos
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 01:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Besides, as has been mentioned above "Pay to Win" is a flawed concept for EvE in any case. EvE PvP is to complex and to intricate for any "Pay to Win" scenario. Newer players look at more expensive ships / modules and think they automatically better over the cheaper versions. A better way to look at EvE ships and fits is like classes in other MMOs. Each has their role and will succeed in a given circumstance. Beyond that, as was mentioned above the "player skill" in EvE simple can not be purchased. There is to much to learn. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=266074 - Sniggwaffe (Waffles)
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Kronenbourg Strasbourg
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2014.04.05 04:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
I'm a very new player (approx. 6 weeks) and cannot see the point of being able to just jump through all of the initial stuff (which I am of course, currently going through).
1) If you're serious about a game like EVE, you'll actually enjoy the learning and discovery phase, whilst flying the more basic ships / using basic equipment
2) Even if someone handed me infinite ISK / skills / ships, I wouldn't really have a clue what to do with them / it, and would most likely get bashed by anyone with more experience, which personally i believe would lead to even more frustration and confusion than a new player currently experiences, therefore leading to more quitting... "Hey I've paid my way to getting all this stuff, why am I not suddenly really epic at the game??!?! THIS SUCKS, I QUIT!!"
3) Like anything in life, you don't get full appreciation or enjoyment from it, unless you have put in the necessary effort to then reap the rewards
I don't care what game it is - Tetris, Sonic, Goldeneye, Sims, WoW, or EVE, you CANNOT run before you can walk, and cannot buy/cheat your way to being good at it. As I've read A LOT since being a member, the most valuable asset in EVE is not skills, equipment, or even ISK... It is the commodity of time. Without a lot of that invested, you're going to be the loser.
Just my two pennies worth, but I think I'm right |
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Yarda Black
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
107
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 10:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
No
No
Some more; No
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3939
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 22:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kronenbourg Strasbourg wrote:I'm a very new player (approx. 6 weeks) and cannot see the point of being able to just jump through all of the initial stuff (which I am of course, currently going through). 1) If you're serious about a game like EVE, you'll actually enjoy the learning and discovery phase, whilst flying the more basic ships / using basic equipment 2) Even if someone handed me infinite ISK / skills / ships, I wouldn't really have a clue what to do with them / it, and would most likely get bashed by anyone with more experience, which personally i believe would lead to even more frustration and confusion than a new player currently experiences, therefore leading to more quitting... "Hey I've paid my way to getting all this stuff, why am I not suddenly really epic at the game??!?! THIS SUCKS, I QUIT!!" 3) Like anything in life, you don't get full appreciation or enjoyment from it, unless you have put in the necessary effort to then reap the rewards I don't care what game it is - Tetris, Sonic, Goldeneye, Sims, WoW, or EVE, you CANNOT run before you can walk, and cannot buy/cheat your way to being good at it. As I've read A LOT since being a member, the most valuable asset in EVE is not skills, equipment, or even ISK... It is the commodity of time. Without a lot of that invested, you're going to be the loser. Just my two pennies worth, but I think I'm right
Just here to confirm that this new player is indeed right. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Tosawa Komarui
Useless Incorporated QUIET TIME.
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 07:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:While I'm not totally against the idea to pay to "catch up" with characters created at launch: You can kinda already do that by buying an old character on the bazaar.
And you do overestimate the amount of gain skill points bring. You can get enough skill points in 3 months of focussed training to decently pilot any specific sub-capital ship. While you might get a bit more performance with a couple more lvl 5 skills, that's usually not that important, unless you are fighting someone in the same ship. But in a fight between different ships, the ship strengths are more important than skill points.
this is a lie, there is no heavy assault cruiser you can fly in 3 months at any playable level
please dont feed crap like this into discussions about skill training taking ages (which it very much does for quite a lot of sub capital ships), your not the only one who has said this either. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17697
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 13:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Kronenbourg Strasbourg wrote:I'm a very new player (approx. 6 weeks) and cannot see the point of being able to just jump through all of the initial stuff (which I am of course, currently going through). 1) If you're serious about a game like EVE, you'll actually enjoy the learning and discovery phase, whilst flying the more basic ships / using basic equipment 2) Even if someone handed me infinite ISK / skills / ships, I wouldn't really have a clue what to do with them / it, and would most likely get bashed by anyone with more experience, which personally i believe would lead to even more frustration and confusion than a new player currently experiences, therefore leading to more quitting... "Hey I've paid my way to getting all this stuff, why am I not suddenly really epic at the game??!?! THIS SUCKS, I QUIT!!" 3) Like anything in life, you don't get full appreciation or enjoyment from it, unless you have put in the necessary effort to then reap the rewards I don't care what game it is - Tetris, Sonic, Goldeneye, Sims, WoW, or EVE, you CANNOT run before you can walk, and cannot buy/cheat your way to being good at it. As I've read A LOT since being a member, the most valuable asset in EVE is not skills, equipment, or even ISK... It is the commodity of time. Without a lot of that invested, you're going to be the loser. Just my two pennies worth, but I think I'm right Just here to confirm that this new player is indeed right. And rapidly proving that he not too stupid to play Eve, despite his initial impression
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Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
431
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 14:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:J'Poll wrote:Kronenbourg Strasbourg wrote:I'm a very new player (approx. 6 weeks) and cannot see the point of being able to just jump through all of the initial stuff (which I am of course, currently going through). 1) If you're serious about a game like EVE, you'll actually enjoy the learning and discovery phase, whilst flying the more basic ships / using basic equipment 2) Even if someone handed me infinite ISK / skills / ships, I wouldn't really have a clue what to do with them / it, and would most likely get bashed by anyone with more experience, which personally i believe would lead to even more frustration and confusion than a new player currently experiences, therefore leading to more quitting... "Hey I've paid my way to getting all this stuff, why am I not suddenly really epic at the game??!?! THIS SUCKS, I QUIT!!" 3) Like anything in life, you don't get full appreciation or enjoyment from it, unless you have put in the necessary effort to then reap the rewards I don't care what game it is - Tetris, Sonic, Goldeneye, Sims, WoW, or EVE, you CANNOT run before you can walk, and cannot buy/cheat your way to being good at it. As I've read A LOT since being a member, the most valuable asset in EVE is not skills, equipment, or even ISK... It is the commodity of time. Without a lot of that invested, you're going to be the loser. Just my two pennies worth, but I think I'm right Just here to confirm that this new player is indeed right. And rapidly proving that he not too stupid to play Eve, despite his initial impression
Of course - Eve requires a particular Mind Set to attract people. the ability to accelerate skill training would not change this.
More to the point, people are getting a little derailed: I'm highlighting that right clicking an object, choosing "train skill" and then waiting and fixed amount of time is unrewarding game-play. Taking part in a variety of activities without fear of 'loosing time' however seems to make more sense.
Eve has a lot of flavour - it can take months to reach an SP break-point to be effective at a lot of these things (e.g. what if you DONT want to PVP in a frig?). In that time I wouldn't blame some people for becoming disenfranchised with the skill system despite the game play. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3942
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote: Of course - Eve requires a particular Mind Set to attract people. the ability to accelerate skill training would not change this.
More to the point, people are getting a little derailed: I'm highlighting that right clicking an object, choosing "train skill" and then waiting and fixed amount of time is unrewarding game-play. Taking part in a variety of activities without fear of 'loosing time' however seems to make more sense.
Eve has a lot of flavour - it can take months to reach an SP break-point to be effective at a lot of these things (e.g. what if you DONT want to PVP in a frig?). In that time I wouldn't blame some people for becoming disenfranchised with the skill system despite the game play.
Let me clarify:
A. YOU don't think it's a good system B. YOU think it's unrewarding, YOU want a XP grind game. C. YOU think and fail doing it, that it takes months to do something.
Ergo, it's YOUR opinions and YOUR flawed logic.
As for your last point
I want to drive a Formula 1 car...Can I do that now, I don't want to learn how to drive in a normal and other smaller class cars first. Same idea, same result...start small and work your way up. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
516
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Maeltstome wrote: I used to ignore this, but it's becoming unavoidable - The new player-> veteran gulf is big and boosts for new players only goes so far. So my question is this:
Wait...whut? You have obviously no idea what you are talking about. I've seen less then 2 month olds get kills (or made kills possible) as good as veterans do. This. So much this. A guy in my alliance who I take out on roams and flies with a few others is top of the Killboards this month. He's about 2 months in... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Logan Dufrais
H.E.L.P.e.R Astraeaus
0
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Posted - 2014.04.06 19:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
The other thing to consider here is how broken this would be for experienced players' alts. Someone who knows a lot about making isk in the game could level a sidekick account super efficiently to make a ton of isk for not a lot of work. It's the same concept that prevents players from training industrial ships on a trial account, for example. I also think that pay to win is a slippery slope that leads to player laziness, especially in a player driven economy like eve that is based on hard work. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3943
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 20:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Logan Dufrais wrote:The other thing to consider here is how broken this would be for experienced players' alts. Someone who knows a lot about making isk in the game could level a sidekick account super efficiently to make a ton of isk for not a lot of work. It's the same concept that prevents players from training industrial ships on a trial account, for example. I also think that pay to win is a slippery slope that leads to player laziness, especially in a player driven economy like eve that is based on hard work.
Ergo...Malcanis' Law Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
ginger jon
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 20:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
no, i don't think they should make things easier for new players, it would be a kick in the teeth for veterans.
in most online games noobs get their bums handed to them on a plate, this is the nature of the beast when it comes to online gaming..
i used to play an old flight sim called air attack, i put 10 years or more into it and got to be really good at it, if some guy who had been playing for 6 months was suddenly given upgrades for his plane to be able to compete with me id have felt robbed.
the good thing about eve though is that noobs are catered for very well unlike most other games i can think of.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1109
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Posted - 2014.04.06 21:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
This thread has been moved to General Discussion, as it is not a discussion that is at place in EvE New Citizens Q&A. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20496
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Posted - 2014.04.06 21:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:I used to ignore this, but it's becoming unavoidable - The new player-> veteran gulf is big and boosts for new players only goes so far. So my question is this:
Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction? No. Largely because the problem you've invented there doesn't actually exist. There is no gulf that can't already trivially be closed by new players, nor is there any mechanic to do so that won't be abused to hell or back by old players. Your problem is that you're operating on a completely erroneous SP = XP assumption, as well as a GÇ¥more = betterGÇ¥ assumption that many obsolete class/level-based RPG systems employ. EVE does not use such a system and does not suffer from the problems that are inherent with them. What you're suggesting, however, creates many of those problems GÇö that's not a good thing.
Maeltstome wrote:I'm also pleasantly surprised that amidst the anger and bile most people where inherently agreeing with the base concept of why this idea isn't game breaking:
Buying SP doesn't make you a better pilot. It doesn't give you any experience in HOW to play eve or how to be successful. No, that's not why your idea isn't game-breaking (which it is); what they're describing is the reason why your idea is unnecessary and ill-informed. It doesn't solve anything and it only allows people who have the experience to bypass all the mechanics put into place to ensure that even they will be limited in what they can do at any given time.
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Gap is huge and takes a lot to seal, but you might be looking at it in a wrong way. The gap is actually pretty small and not only easy to seal, but unavoidable. The reasons you list are part of what makes it so. You're missing out the really important bit, though: the (massively) diminishing returns that make it hard to become better in any relevant way in any given area, but easy to become good enough in a large number of them at once.
Being able to speed up SP accumulation will remove all of those balancing mechanics and give older players such vast and immediate advantages over new ones that it borders on farcical. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
368
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Posted - 2014.04.06 21:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
No.
Do you have any more questions? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
552
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 21:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
why would you even ask this question? are you a noob? -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4460
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
Not only should your "friend" never, ever play this game, you should quit too.
Considering I'm pretty sure this is one of those "So, um, my "friend" got a girl pregnant...." questions. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1658
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:
Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction?
Nope.
CCP has changed it's Character Generation system at least a half dozen times over the years, offered the ability to accelerate training with specific implants for new pilots and even streamlined the skills requirements through various iterations of "rebalancing".
All too often, however, the moans and groans from the unwashed masses are rooted in impatience.
Folks like that will always find a game that allows them INSTANT GRATIFICATION with all kinds of "golden bullets", cheat codes and "God Modes"... so they should start heading for the "EXIT" sign now instead of suggesting and, in some cases, INSISTING that EVE isn't fair and needs to change.
Which is to say, Bullshit.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5094
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:
Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction?
What's the point, really?
No one would not do it. The separation between newb and vet would stay the same and people would continue crying anyway. Total waste of Dev resources, in my opinion.
While I'd still disagree with it, making an argument for accelerated training for new players would have some merit at least.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Boomtown Jones
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
Despite all the vitriol in this thread, as others have pointed out it is quite possible to buy SP right now via plex and the character bazaar. P2W by anyone's standards.
I'm not saying that SP boosting for cash should be a thing, but I am saying that unless the character bazaar is removed there is little justification for its continued exclusion. All SP really does is open up options for gameplay anyway. It only serves as a measure of a players skill because it tells you how long they have been playing, and there are other ways to find that out. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1548
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote: Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction?
NO.
EVE is not "instant gratification". EVE is not a game where everyone's playing field is level. Life is not fair, EVE is not fair.
HTFU. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:47:00 -
[60] - Quote
As much as some people like to stroke themselves about some kind of supposed EvE ideological purity the reality is that ofcourse you can buy PLEX for real money and you can buy anything ingame for PLEX, including multiple accounts, pre-trained characters, all the ships you could ever want, etc...
Few games offer as much possibility of influencing gameplay with your wallet as EvE does.
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