Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
420
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 18:35:00 -
[151] - Quote
Note that some people are playing with the markets, buying up low-priced stuff and re-listing at a much higher price. You know, the same thing that happens every time something changes in EVE.
Coolant: about 12k as of a few hours ago http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=9832®ion_id=10000002&type=sell
Oxygen: http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=3683®ion_id=10000002&type=sell This is being manipulated in multiple trade hubs. Which is why there are only 3 sell orders in Jita.
Mech Parts: 14k (bit high at the moment) http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=3689®ion_id=10000002&type=sell
Enriched Uranium: 15k (also a bit high at the moment) http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=44®ion_id=10000002&type=sell
Those P2s selling at 14-15k? Those are about 20-30% profit margins, even if you bought the inputs. (Naturally, you'll want to verify your math.)
Remember - PI is still a very low-skill required trade with very low barrier of entry. It only takes 3-4 days to train up for CCU4, IPC4 and Planetology 3. Spend about 6.5M ISK on setting up a PI harvest colony, which then outputs anywhere from 2400-3600 units of P1 per day (in hi-sec, 24h cycles, for most things). Even with the 50 ISK/u tariff in hi-sec, you can easily make a decent amount of ISK/day for a new player.
400 ISK/u market = 350 ISK/u net after paying export tax = 3000 units/day @ 350 = 1.05M ISK/day in profit 500 ISK/u market = 1.35M/day 600 ISK/u market = 1.65M/day
Last summer, people were willing to do hi-sec PI harvest planets that were only making 500k-750k per day. Now those same harvest planets are making 2x that. |
Omega Flames
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 18:50:00 -
[152] - Quote
Ya but last summer we knew the prices would be going up as people got tired of clicking but even then the taxes were not eating into our profits like they are now. I know the prices are going to go up again but this time it's not cause of a player driven economy it's cause of a npc driven change. Even with the POCO's being added it's not actually helping cause they are created using PI products so as PI increases in price the cost of installing (and value of killmail) goes up making them even better of a target for the time to kill. What happens if PI products double in price? Well that means POCO's double in value too, which means a small pos hp item (except it can only be defended by active players coming to it's rescue and not by auto-firing guns of any sort) will be able to be killed for about a 250mil isk of a km. |
Amon Sono
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 19:46:00 -
[153] - Quote
mnybag1 wrote:Even if you are the only one using the planet, the POCOs are worth it. If you have 12 planets over two accounts making 10 p2 per hour per planet, then you within 5 months the POCOs will have paid for themselves in the amount you save in taxes. Those claiming they will get blown up, if you are the only one using those planets, then chances are its a pretty dead system in general. Furthermore, the prices have already almost doubled so even PI in high sec is profitable again.
Things change. I think this new feature has a chance of being alot of fun and opening doors to new types of players throughout New Eden. I really hope CCP do not listen to everyone complaining because the feature is working exactly as intended. Once the market calms down from everyone's "THE SKY IS FALLING" mentality, things will probably be more expensive, but they should be because of the indicies.
It all makes sense. Stop whining over spilt isk.
I respectivly disagree, the changes will effectively squeeze out small and independent players This is shutting doors rather then opening them. I think the changes will make null and wh PI more interesting but makes low and high sec PI less attractive. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 20:14:00 -
[154] - Quote
Amon Sono wrote:mnybag1 wrote:Even if you are the only one using the planet, the POCOs are worth it. If you have 12 planets over two accounts making 10 p2 per hour per planet, then you within 5 months the POCOs will have paid for themselves in the amount you save in taxes. Those claiming they will get blown up, if you are the only one using those planets, then chances are its a pretty dead system in general. Furthermore, the prices have already almost doubled so even PI in high sec is profitable again.
Things change. I think this new feature has a chance of being alot of fun and opening doors to new types of players throughout New Eden. I really hope CCP do not listen to everyone complaining because the feature is working exactly as intended. Once the market calms down from everyone's "THE SKY IS FALLING" mentality, things will probably be more expensive, but they should be because of the indicies.
It all makes sense. Stop whining over spilt isk. I respectivly disagree, the changes will effectively squeeze out small and independent players This is shutting doors rather then opening them. I think the changes will make null and wh PI more interesting but makes low and high sec PI less attractive.
So it's boosting the income of people who're willing to work together at the expense of the income of those who are not? Working as intended. |
Amon Sono
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 21:49:00 -
[155] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Amon Sono wrote:mnybag1 wrote:Even if you are the only one using the planet, the POCOs are worth it. If you have 12 planets over two accounts making 10 p2 per hour per planet, then you within 5 months the POCOs will have paid for themselves in the amount you save in taxes. Those claiming they will get blown up, if you are the only one using those planets, then chances are its a pretty dead system in general. Furthermore, the prices have already almost doubled so even PI in high sec is profitable again.
Things change. I think this new feature has a chance of being alot of fun and opening doors to new types of players throughout New Eden. I really hope CCP do not listen to everyone complaining because the feature is working exactly as intended. Once the market calms down from everyone's "THE SKY IS FALLING" mentality, things will probably be more expensive, but they should be because of the indicies.
It all makes sense. Stop whining over spilt isk. I respectivly disagree, the changes will effectively squeeze out small and independent players This is shutting doors rather then opening them. I think the changes will make null and wh PI more interesting but makes low and high sec PI less attractive. So it's boosting the income of people who're willing to work together at the expense of the income of those who are not? Working as intended.
If your implying that only large corps work together I think your way off base. Nor do I think its beneficial to the game to isolate members of your community from features of the game. The devs have implied that one of the reasons for this is to entice more players out of high sec. What will happen is the exact opposite becuase small corps and individual players simply can't compete |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 22:05:00 -
[156] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: So it's boosting the income of people who're willing to work together at the expense of the income of those who are not? Working as intended.
Not really. The stated goal of it was to be accessible to all players and encourage people to go to low sec. The actual result is that PI in lowsec declines and fewer people go there.
This is bad for pvp: fewer targets.
This is bad for industry: higher prices for basic commodities.
This is bad for new players: increased cost of entry.
The only people this is good for is big alliances, who get to undercut everyone else's prices and still turn a profit.
Effectively, it creates yet another monopoly for alliances and their pets. Unless you're willing to take a loss on the POCO and have 0% tarriff AND are either damn lucky or have some SERIOUS firepower, you will not be able to match alliance sale prices in the open market. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 22:08:00 -
[157] - Quote
Forum goofed double post. |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
123
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 00:39:00 -
[158] - Quote
Velicitia wrote: and look a this, a goon not calling the empire dwellers pubbies for once ... what else has CCP fixed in Crucible? as for the underwhelming response, and the "hm, maybe W-space" responses ... that's neither here nor there. The fact is that SOMEONE is taking the initiative to do something rather than QQ.
Well, look at my posts where I lay out the case for higher PI reference tax values, the effect Interbus COs would have on POCO desirability, or basically any post of mine where I'm not trolling some hysterical whining pubbie like Cygnet L (thanks for continuing to bump my thread btw). I try to be logical, sincere, and thoughtful when seriously discussing game design. I get my trolling in elsewhere. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 02:21:00 -
[159] - Quote
pmchem wrote: Well, look at my posts where I lay out the case for higher PI reference tax values, the effect Interbus COs would have on POCO desirability, or basically any post of mine where I'm not trolling some hysterical whining pubbie like Cygnet L (thanks for continuing to bump my thread btw). I try to be logical, sincere, and thoughtful when seriously discussing game design. I get my trolling in elsewhere.
pmchem, you'll forgive if I take your posts as light fantasy rather then fact. The fact that your alliance has come out hard for this and seems to be the major party interested in it suggests that you've already been tipped off to how extreme the tax on PI would be and have sunk a sizable amount of isk into the gamble that it would pass unnoticed.
And, you know, I seem to recall, once upon a time, a very similar statement from another alliance...hmm... what was it... OH YES....
'I'm not trolling some hysterical whining by goons about our alleged relationship with T20.'
Oh, and before you brandish 'pubbie' at me, I seem to recall blowing by your alliances pathetic effort at a bubble bath a few weeks ago on a hot little profitable run in nullsec.
So, please, by all means, keep talking ****.
It's funny from an alliance that couldn't catch a 'pubbie' in their own space. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1757
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 04:49:00 -
[160] - Quote
we're all too rich from guidance systems to care buddy |
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 05:03:00 -
[161] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:[quote=pmchem]Oh, and before you brandish 'pubbie' at me, I seem to recall blowing by your alliances pathetic effort at a bubble bath a few weeks ago on a hot little profitable run in nullsec. Holy crap "bubble bath" is the most pubbie way to refer to a dictor camp that I've probably ever heard or will hear
Also if you're exporting p0s you probably cannot be trusted to dress yourself |
Rek Esket
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 05:26:00 -
[162] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:It's funny from an alliance that couldn't catch a 'pubbie' in their own space.
Was this in Deklein? Delve? Fountain? Fade? Cloud Ring? Pure Blind?
GSF owns 103 systems of Sov and 45 outposts among 6 regions. You should be more specific about which part of our empire you went jaunting through, so that we can fix this dangerous lapse in our security. |
Pherick Sjang
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 05:35:00 -
[163] - Quote
:effort: |
Akara Ito
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 12:19:00 -
[164] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote: It's funny from an alliance that couldn't catch a 'pubbie' in their own space.
Why would we try to catch you ? I mean sure if somebody feels like hunting and comes for you, but I cant find the 30 Goons you killed on the KB so I assume you didnt do ****.
Goons always welcome tourists, just remember to check with our customs personel in EC- next time and we get you a better room.
|
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 12:39:00 -
[165] - Quote
is that room surprisingly coffin shaped? If so I want to book a weekend away there! Sounds grand. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 14:19:00 -
[166] - Quote
Ok, good, enough goons posted for the song to make sense now. Thank you.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1759
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 16:31:00 -
[167] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:My profits suggest otherwise.
we already established you're horribly bad at math since you're exporting p0s soooooooooooooo its not like we're going to trust your math on your profits |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
202
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 16:51:00 -
[168] - Quote
Exporting p0s?
Why? You'd need a jump freighter and very little sense I live, I post, I slay. I am content. Alpha Flight --á an open-source initiative for newbies looking for PVP. Join channel ''Alpha Flight'' in game https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40104 |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 17:44:00 -
[169] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Exporting p0s?
Why? You'd need a jump freighter and very little sense
I'm not, I might point out. I'm just not going to tell them what I did export. I like to keep my isk to myself. |
Ragneir
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 17:58:00 -
[170] - Quote
I'm derpy the care bear. I like magical rainbows, peace and love.
O noes CCP has coded in something that nerfs my high sec income its time to complain!
I fully understand that I would have to group up with pvpers to maintain PI in low or null sec but that screws up with my fluffy vibes and that is a no go.
I could go into a WH but I could run into pirates! Even though WH pirates are not too common I don't want blood on my fur!
So my best resort is to complain about a mechanic that can't get along with my Fluffalicious gameplay. I refuse to adapt to new mechanics so only change low sec and 0.0! |
|
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 18:32:00 -
[171] - Quote
you are stupid..... ally with low sec pvpers hahahahaha
|
Ragneir
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 19:45:00 -
[172] - Quote
Fluf power!. That right it's stupid to pvp to maintain blues. I would never want to risk my ship in low sec. Sure I could join up with some pirate group and what not. That is just a dumb idea. Too much pew pew and work to maintain a dumb planet. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 21:46:00 -
[173] - Quote
Wow: stupid troll is stupid.
Again, since Ragnier apparently can't read at all, I'm making isk on this baby. I already have the low sec and nullsec contacts fueling my bank.
And I want it to stop. |
Yinzer Haverford
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 23:57:00 -
[174] - Quote
To get back to the topic at hand, there seem to be some core facts that most would probably agree with:
(a) The old taxes prior to the expansion were so low that they were effectively ignored by anyone doing High Sec PI.
(b) The new taxes are an enormous increase in relation to the old taxes, which is probably driving most of the complaining.
(c) Even if you ignore what the taxes used to be, the new taxes seem fairly high. If you are exporting from a production planet, importing to a factory planet, and then exporting finished goods off of the factory planet, you are going to pay so much in taxes that newer players will probably not have enough ISK lying around to get a profitable start in PI at all.
As a solution, I would suggest allowing skills and/or CONCORD standing to play a role in calculating tax rates when using High Sec COs. We already have the ability to reduce sales taxes through skills and reprocessing taxes by improving our standing with NPC corps. And with the POCOs, better standing also has the potential to reduce the PI taxes (depending on how the POCO is configured). If there was a way to reduce the tax burden one faces with High Sec PI -- instead of it being locked in for everyone at the same level -- the system would both conform to the rest of the game and eliminate most of the complaining.
Just an idea. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
22
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 00:03:00 -
[175] - Quote
Yinzer Haverford wrote:To get back to the topic at hand, there seem to be some core facts that most would probably agree with:
(a) The old taxes prior to the expansion were so low that they were effectively ignored by anyone doing High Sec PI.
(b) The new taxes are an enormous increase in relation to the old taxes, which is probably driving most of the complaining.
(c) Even if you ignore what the taxes used to be, the new taxes seem fairly high. If you are exporting from a production planet, importing to a factory planet, and then exporting finished goods off of the factory planet, you are going to pay so much in taxes that newer players will probably not have enough ISK lying around to get a profitable start in PI at all.
As a solution, I would suggest allowing skills and/or CONCORD standing to play a role in calculating tax rates when using High Sec COs. We already have the ability to reduce sales taxes through skills and reprocessing taxes by improving our standing with NPC corps. And with the POCOs, better standing also has the potential to reduce the PI taxes (depending on how the POCO is configured). If there was a way to reduce the tax burden one faces with High Sec PI -- instead of it being locked in for everyone at the same level -- the system would both conform to the rest of the game and eliminate most of the complaining.
Just an idea.
That's actually not a bad idea at all. I'd be fine with it if it was based off the actual market value of the item, say the moving price, so it's harder to manipulate.
I'm not opposed to any tax, just one as lopsidedly in favor of certain people as this one. |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
134
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 00:21:00 -
[176] - Quote
Yinzer Haverford wrote: As a solution, I would suggest allowing skills and/or CONCORD standing to play a role in calculating tax rates when using High Sec COs. We already have the ability to reduce sales taxes through skills and reprocessing taxes by improving our standing with NPC corps.
Your solution is basically just to reduce taxes, because that's what the end result would be. Which would re-introduce the gameplay/design problems which taxes are fixing. POCOs are here to stay -- highsec is low risk and therefore should be low reward, as repeatedly stated by the devs. It's time to adjust. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
435
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 01:05:00 -
[177] - Quote
pmchem wrote: Your solution is basically just to reduce taxes, because that's what the end result would be. Which would re-introduce the gameplay/design problems which taxes are fixing. POCOs are here to stay -- highsec is low risk and therefore should be low reward, as repeatedly stated by the devs. It's time to adjust.
I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.
(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.) |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
206
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 01:33:00 -
[178] - Quote
Why would it be necessary? Are you afraid it won't be priced to allow hisec to compete at some level? |
Yinzer Haverford
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 01:38:00 -
[179] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote: I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.
(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.)
Exactly. Taxes should be generally higher in High Sec, and they should be substantially higher than they used to be before the expansion dropped. But if you give people some means of reducing this tax burden by training skills or building standing -- as we can already do with sales tax, broker fees, and refining taxes -- it would at least allow them to feel empowered to do something about it.
It wouldn't have to be a huge drop in the tax rate. I would personally favor something a bit stronger than a 15% reduction. Maybe 25%-30%. But the exact number isn't nearly as important as the overall concept.
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 01:39:00 -
[180] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:[ I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.
(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.)
I agree, this idea has merit. It's not the counterweight I would like to see against a Alliance dominated market, but allows players to work around it.
IIRC wasn't there talk of introducing Smuggling to the game? I think that would be an excellent way to introduce this, since it is, after all, getting around the revenue men.. or Concord, in this case... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |