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Skilfer Azizora
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
20
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Posted - 2014.04.09 17:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
So how many days is this hearing going to go on?? I mean if this was the Federal Senate we were talking about, then that would be understandable, but I am beginning to get a bit impatient here. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6161
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Posted - 2014.04.09 18:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
It could take rather a while; alternatively, they may simply be keeping the results confidential for the moment so that the major players can position themselves for the aftermath.
I've been stationing in New Caldari these past few days, and relocating some corporate assets to Malkalen pending the results; nothing yet in local comms, and nothing via the news networks.
Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3470
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Posted - 2014.04.09 19:23:00 -
[123] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:It could take rather a while; alternatively, they may simply be keeping the results confidential for the moment so that the major players can position themselves for the aftermath.
I've been stationing in New Caldari these past few days, and relocating some corporate assets to Malkalen pending the results; nothing yet in local comms, and nothing via the news networks.
Mmmmh... It might well be worthwhile to station something with a bit of throw-weight there in case there's an emergency of some sort. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Skilfer Azizora
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
20
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Posted - 2014.04.09 19:53:00 -
[124] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:It could take rather a while; alternatively, they may simply be keeping the results confidential for the moment so that the major players can position themselves for the aftermath.
I've been stationing in New Caldari these past few days, and relocating some corporate assets to Malkalen pending the results; nothing yet in local comms, and nothing via the news networks.
You are definitely not the only one. I moved in within a couple short minutes of reading the press release. It is like reading about someone attacking your close family while your back was turned; you move in to help them without ever asking a question....Looking back on it, I feel that it says a lot about Reppola-haan and the entirety of the okusaika that they are even able to connect, and impact us capsuleers on such a personal level. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1002
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Posted - 2014.04.10 06:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ishukone treason against the State was quite obvious. What takes them so long?.. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6162
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Posted - 2014.04.10 16:57:00 -
[126] - Quote
Yes. Treason of the highest order.
But don't worry. The next time Ishukone Okusaika conducts negotiations with the Federation, we'll be viewed as unreliable, untrustworthy, self-interested operators all the same. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3473
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:33:00 -
[127] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Yes. Treason of the highest order.But don't worry. The next time Ishukone Okusaika conducts negotiations with the Federation, we'll be viewed as unreliable, untrustworthy, self-interested operators all the same.
Are you claiming not to be self-interested? *winks* "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6162
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:39:00 -
[128] - Quote
Baha. Oh, I'm surely self-interested!
But Tuulinen, what I would wager is this: that what is beneficial to the State is beneficial to Ishukone; what is beneficial to Ishukone is beneficial to the State. Our self-interest ultimately serves the good of the people, as Ishukone takes its duties very seriously indeed.
Perhaps I should take a break from these damnable reports to think of a better term: self-interest to the exclusion of duty to the whole, against self-interest with an understanding of one's duty to the whole. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
141
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:46:00 -
[129] - Quote
Well, that's a predictably mundane and hilarious ending to this silliness. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3474
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:52:00 -
[130] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Baha. Oh, I'm surely self-interested!
But Tuulinen, what I would wager is this: that what is beneficial to the State is beneficial to Ishukone; what is beneficial to Ishukone is beneficial to the State. Our self-interest ultimately serves the good of the people, as Ishukone takes its duties very seriously indeed.
Perhaps I should take a break from these damnable reports to think of a better term: self-interest to the exclusion of duty to the whole, against self-interest with an understanding of one's duty to the whole.
I believe the term is 'enlightened self interest', Priano-haani.
And yes, I know, I was merely poking a little harmless fun. We're all self-interested and, in the long run, what's good for the State is good for all of us. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
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Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3524
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:58:00 -
[131] - Quote
We're allowed to feel a little smug, right? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Pieter Tuulinen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3474
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:01:00 -
[132] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:We're allowed to feel a little smug, right?
Come on, Verin, you're generally running a slight elevation in smugness, aren't you? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6164
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:23:00 -
[133] - Quote
Well, I'd say, "Business as usual," with regard to that.
Also, Tuulinen, message inbound. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2354
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
Almost immediately after the Federation siezes control the planet, Ishukone takes half of it back without firing a single shot. Let that sink in State Patriots. A door is opening, help keep it open. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6164
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:45:00 -
[135] - Quote
Fred, you're misremembering.
The Federation seized control of orbit, but was unable to secure a majority of the surface. Ishukone didn't take anything; it negotiated a cessation of hostilities and a mutually-agreed-upon demilitarization to prevent further damage to planetary infrastructure, begin relief and repair operations, and to ideally preserve Caldari Prime for those who live there. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3157
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Posted - 2014.04.10 19:14:00 -
[136] - Quote
I am personally glad to hopefully see the end of recent tensions between the various political blocs in the Caldari State.
As a simple capsuleer, I was never privy to the real inner workings of what was going on. I was just as much in the dark as everyone else here, and I did admit worry over what might transpire. I worried for Ishukone, for I-RED, for myself. I worried for our entire people as phrases like "treason" and "civil war" were uttered in hushed whispers and excited shouts alike. I waited these past few days in silence, wondering what would come to pass.
I consulted with my superior officer, Taisho Revenent, and he reminded me of my duty to remain loyal to Ishukone, and to keep placing my faith in Chief Executive Reppola. He reminded me that just as Ishukone has placed its faith in me, I must return the favor.
It was not easy to do. The years spent among Gallente Federals has weakened my resolve. It has made me prone to questioning my betters. It has made it difficult for me to see my own lot in life, my own part to play, because I have been unknowingly taught and trained to think like a Gallentean. I don't say this to insult those types.. but to point out how dangerous their influence can be. What seems perfectly natural to them can be a toxic corruption for somebody like me. It damages my ability to live within my own culture. Thinking like a Gallentean makes life harder for me.
I advise my colleagues and my kin to be careful where their mind takes them. Be exceedingly careful that you do not find yourself swimming against the river. Maintain kigurosaka.
Remember your roots, and keep them firmly planted in Caldari soil. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2458
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:17:00 -
[137] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Almost immediately after the Federation siezes control the planet, Ishukone takes half of it back without firing a single shot. Let that sink in State Patriots. A door is opening, help keep it open.
No kidding, I always said this is how the Caldari need to do their conquests: The way they do it best, with high powered lawyers and a lot of ISK.
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
154
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Posted - 2014.04.10 22:46:00 -
[138] - Quote
Fft. Yup... Secret, nefarious deals to undermine all the State stands for... Rar. Wonder what the next paranoiagasm will be about.
*sips coffee nefariously* |
Calairis
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.04.10 23:15:00 -
[139] - Quote
Agiri Falken wrote:Wonder what the next paranoiagasm will be about.
*sips coffee nefariously* If you keep drinking the official beverage of hedonistic Federation nouveaux riches, the next one may very well be about you. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
154
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Posted - 2014.04.11 00:08:00 -
[140] - Quote
Calairis wrote:Agiri Falken wrote:Wonder what the next paranoiagasm will be about.
*sips coffee nefariously* If you keep drinking the official beverage of hedonistic Federation nouveaux riches, the next one may very well be about you. Neat. I'll need a fake moustache to twirl, and maybe a black cape. |
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Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
275
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Posted - 2014.04.11 09:22:00 -
[141] - Quote
Why are we judging the matter closed? This is news from outside the Investigation. Positive if taken at face value, but you should all know by now not to do so. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. |
Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
142
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 09:58:00 -
[142] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:Why are we judging the matter closed? This is news from outside the Investigation. Positive if taken at face value, but you should all know by now not to do so. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. You guys were willing to violate almost every treaty you signed and to start an entire war to have a chance to plant your flag back over this big snowball. Sure, you wound up losing, but now yet another big chunk of it is looking like it's going to be given back to you, bringing you one large step closer to controlling the entire thing without contest.
I'm having trouble conceiving of a meaningful downside here. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2014.04.11 09:59:00 -
[143] - Quote
Bryen Verrisai wrote:Anja Suorsa wrote:Why are we judging the matter closed? This is news from outside the Investigation. Positive if taken at face value, but you should all know by now not to do so. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. You guys were willing to violate almost every treaty you signed and to start an entire war to have a chance to plant your flag back over this big snowball. Sure, you wound up losing, but now yet another big chunk of it is looking like it's going to be given back to you, bringing you one large step closer to controlling the entire thing without contest. I'm having trouble conceiving of a meaningful downside here. Ishukone. |
Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
275
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Posted - 2014.04.11 10:21:00 -
[144] - Quote
Unfair. I am not being Critical of Ishukone. I'm simply cynical enough to remain wary of the cost they have paid to get what appears to be a solid moral victory. Besides, as I said, we still haven't heard the results of the Investigation. This could simply be some sugar-coating for the poison we are about to be served.
Make no bones, I'll be among to first to lay my congratulations to Ishukone if this all proves to be a storm in a teacup. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
204
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Posted - 2014.04.11 11:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
I am very surprised at this news. Surprised that the senate would even be interested in discussing these matters with Ishukone. Nothing is finalized yet, results of a CEP investigation have still to be announced. Sounds very promising and welcome news, and congratulations could be in order for Ishukone.
You would think the Gallente citizens living on Caldari Prime and throughout the Federation are not going to be so enamoured, with their senate or goverment if this deal goes through. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2358
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 12:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Fred, you're misremembering.
The Federation seized control of orbit, but was unable to secure a majority of the surface. Ishukone didn't take anything; it negotiated a cessation of hostilities and a mutually-agreed-upon demilitarization to prevent further damage to planetary infrastructure, begin relief and repair operations, and to ideally preserve Caldari Prime for those who live there.
Take the orbit, you take the planet. If Ishukone and to a lesser extent, the Federation Senate did not step in the situation would of been the same as last time. Caldari Prime would have been bombed from orbit until it surrendered or was evacuated.
History was on the verge of repeating itself and Ishukone made sure it didn't. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 12:57:00 -
[147] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:Unfair. I am not being critical of Ishukone. I'm simply cynical enough to remain wary of the cost they have paid to get what appears to be a solid moral and material victory. You can't honestly think this has come without cost? Besides, as I said, we still haven't heard the results of the Investigation. This could simply be some good PR to sugar-coat the poison we may be served shortly.
Make no bones, I'll be among to first to lay my congratulations to Ishukone if this all proves to be a storm in a teacup. Heh, nah, that was mostly me being a smartass. Trust me, I know how reality works, sugar, poison and all. Nothing comes free, even if you can't see the cost right away. Doesn't stop me from poking fun when I can, and wasn't really directed at you specifically, just the line of dialogue in general. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3526
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:47:00 -
[148] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:Unfair. I am not being critical of Ishukone. I'm simply cynical enough to remain wary of the cost they have paid to get what appears to be a solid moral and material victory. You can't honestly think this has come without cost?
So the question is, what price do you deem acceptable? How much is too much?
I don't think any of us are disputing that Ishukone's negotiating this means that there's going to be some cost involved, the issue we have been taking is that the accusations being made were of betrayal, collaboration with the enemy and even of treason.
Whatever price Ishukone has negotiated, it has to be within their authority to offer. They couldn't, for example, offer to give away the city of Landfall on New Caldari, or a controlling interest in Wiyrkomi, or a cessation to the militia conflict with the currently occupied Black Rise systems to remain in Federations hands: none of those things are theirs to give. And they're certainly not going to cripple themselves in the bargaining. So, whatever the price may be, it WILL be a reasonable one.
Meanwhile, these accusations of treachery have still not been retracted. There's been no backing off, no acknowledgement that the paranoia may have been baseless, not so much as a mumbled grudging apology. The perfidious accusation "They're up to something!" has simply been reworded to take account of new information.
I know I'm not empowered to speak for all Liberal pilots here, but speaking for myself it would be much appreciated if our colleagues and comrades in Pyre Falcon could even acknowledge that this suspicion against Ishukone could possibly be unwarranted and that maybe we should be assuming innocence until otherwise is proven.
Is a graceful climbdown really too much to ask for? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
276
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Posted - 2014.04.11 14:36:00 -
[149] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: So the question is, what price do you deem acceptable? How much is too much?
I don't think any of us are disputing that Ishukone's negotiating this means that there's going to be some cost involved, the issue we have been taking is that the accusations being made were of betrayal, collaboration with the enemy and even of treason.
Whatever price Ishukone has negotiated, it has to be within their authority to offer. They couldn't, for example, offer to give away the city of Landfall on New Caldari, or a controlling interest in Wiyrkomi, or a cessation to the militia conflict with the currently occupied Black Rise systems to remain in Federations hands: none of those things are theirs to give. And they're certainly not going to cripple themselves in the bargaining. So, whatever the price may be, it WILL be a reasonable one.
Meanwhile, these accusations of treachery have still not been retracted. There's been no backing off, no acknowledgement that the paranoia may have been baseless, not so much as a mumbled grudging apology. The perfidious accusation "They're up to something!" has simply been reworded to take account of new information.
I know I'm not empowered to speak for all the Liberals here, but speaking for myself it would be much appreciated if our colleagues and comrades in Pyre Falcon could even acknowledge that this suspicion against Ishukone could possibly be unwarranted and that maybe we should be assuming innocence until otherwise is proven.
Is a graceful climbdown really too much to ask for?
As far as IGÇÖm aware Pyre Falcon, as an entity, have declined to make any comment. Unusually, I find myself at the forefront of our presence on this subject. My comments, similar to yours, are my own and I would like to think that IGÇÖve remained magnanimous on the subject throughout and will try to maintain that line. You can of course point to the usual suspects, Kim and Horn, for unfair accusations but it would be unkind to confuse my words or even the message, with theirs.
My position is one of curious spectator. The hubbub caused by the investigation largely came from defensive members of our community, whatever their affiliation. The revelations as regards Arcurio are for Ishukone to negotiate, as you pointed out. Whatever cost they have paid is theirs to pay. I sincerely doubt the board of Ishukone would barter with assets that didnGÇÖt belong to them.
All this said, I am unable in good conscious, to ignore that the investigation was called in the first place and remains active. There needs to have been sufficient concern among the board of the CEP for the investigation of Ishukone to be approved. My concern is that people are drawing a line under this without the full picture and declaring moral victory. There do exist costs too high to the remainder of the State that Ishukone could have bartered with. I donGÇÖt for a moment expect that they have, mind you but the possibility remains until quashed by the publication of the results of the investigation.
IGÇÖve said before and will say again; IGÇÖm happy to eat my words and offer Ishukone and Mens Reppola the congratulations deserved if IGÇÖm proven incorrect. In the meantime, healthy cynicism will hold firm. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3528
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 14:48:00 -
[150] - Quote
I respectfully disagree that your cynicism in this case is healthy.
Fair enough on not confusing your stance with that of Horn and Kim, and I apologise if I suggested that your opinion was equal to theirs. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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