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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen
Islamic Movement of Minmatar
13
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Posted - 2014.04.06 15:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I dont understand it, people are saying its broken and need fixed but they don't really say what is wrong with it. I love Fw the way that it is I can only see mabye small twikes to change it but its by no means broken in my eyes.
some thing I have heard people say is
stop the wc stabs, Well there is a counter to that people have 3 stabs on ship well ill bring 2 warp scrambilers problem soved,
There farmers that only plex run away never fight, yes they farm but bring help bring system venerable and are valuable in fw so they dont pvp and run, well learn how to catch them just cuse that you want to fight them doesn't mean they want to so if you cant catch them your problem and its not broken fly an interceptor thats what they are there for.
he was in gall mill now minmitar now that were t4 and gall mill is t1, ok so he hopped fractions to make isk, you can do it to.
Only think i could realy see that is broken is Orbital bombbarment I would like to see the beacon that you warp to to start bombing show up overly as soon as there a fight going on insted of finding dust members in game, out of game. |
Dr Strange Love
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2014.04.06 15:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've only heard half the people involved in FW think its broken. With a fifth thinking WCS need to be either nerfed or barred from the plexes. A third are on record as being annoyed by the farmers and an eighth of FW are the WCS farmers that people complain about. |
Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen
Islamic Movement of Minmatar
13
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Posted - 2014.04.06 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
well the neutral pirates are nessisary, mabye have them take a fraction hit for fighting milita but they seem necessary
oh i forgot about the Npc navys I could say they need an update so you cant say camp out side of jita and blap wt |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
306
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Posted - 2014.04.06 16:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dr Strange Love wrote:I've only heard half the people involved in FW think its broken. With a fifth thinking WCS need to be either nerfed or barred from the plexes. A third are on record as being annoyed by the farmers and an eighth of FW are the WCS farmers that people complain about. your proportions are completely wrong. all sides h8 stabbed farmers.
M8 if you wanna figure out why its broken you can seriously go read all the RAGE pages back about how broken it is. FW used to be about the pvp, now its a bank. Nothing more.
mini sov? yup except instead of players using afk laser abaddons there using warp core stabs. and despite what every bleeding heart badass wants to think that stabbed farmers are counterable, they are NOT. there is zero incentive to sit in system and hunt a stabbed farmer for 8 hours.
tier 1 ? tier 4? tier 5? ccp didnt do the math on the tax's and the rewards get bigger and bigger and its so easy to maintain a tier. even though we were told that going up higher in tier would be harder to maintain... its NOT, its easier, more LP easier to maintain high tier.
removing the bigger ship plexs from fw. no reason to ever undock a bc or a bs, or a cap ship EVER anymore.
cross militia plexing.
on an eve universe scale, t1 logi has ruined this game. introduction of t1 logi that is 66% as effective as a guardian and a mere 30% the cost of a guardian is the new meta. fleet fights there used to always be something dieing. now its just repping. in FW at least its who can get the most logi alts wins.
need i go on? |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Fire Nation Syndicate
732
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
I bet CCP is pretty happy about current FW, lot of ships are blown up every day and systems change owner.
If you have different goals it does not mean FW is broken.
We have not seen yet what is the last outcome of this current system, maybe it goes to stable mission farming with 2 factions with high tier. |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
632
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Posted - 2014.04.06 16:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dr Strange Love wrote:I've only heard half the people involved in FW think its broken. With a fifth thinking WCS need to be either nerfed or barred from the plexes. A third are on record as being annoyed by the farmers and an eighth of FW are the WCS farmers that people complain about. I lolled.
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1622
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Posted - 2014.04.06 17:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
I hate fraction warfare too. It's an affront to math everywhere. |
Courtney Gutierrez
Spiritus-Holdings Sicarius Draconis
0
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Posted - 2014.04.06 18:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen wrote: Npc navys I could say they need an update so you cant say camp out side of jita and blap wt
Yes they need removing all together so u can blap wartargets wherever u want no othere wardec has the comfort of npcs protecting them why should fw bw any different? everyone is told when they sign up that they can be attacked anywhere at anytime...
Your in a forever wardec why should high sec be safe? |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Fire Nation Syndicate
732
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 19:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Courtney Gutierrez wrote:Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen wrote: Npc navys I could say they need an update so you cant say camp out side of jita and blap wt Yes they need removing all together so u can blap wartargets wherever u want no othere wardec has the comfort of npcs protecting them why should fw bw any different? everyone is told when they sign up that they can be attacked anywhere at anytime... Your in a forever wardec why should high sec be safe?
It is not safe, it is just bit more challenging to camp highsec but it is allowed and possible.
Idea of FW is to fight in lowsec for complexses not to be some RvB2. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
485
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Posted - 2014.04.06 20:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because of one winner divided by four factions does not equal the square root of minus one. |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2040
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 20:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen wrote:I dont understand it, people are saying its broken and need fixed but they don't really say what is wrong with it. I love Fw the way that it is I can only see mabye small twikes to change it but its by no means broken in my eyes.
some thing I have heard people say is
stop the wc stabs, Well there is a counter to that people have 3 stabs on ship well ill bring 2 warp scrambilers problem soved,
There farmers that only plex run away never fight, yes they farm but bring help bring system venerable and are valuable in fw so they dont pvp and run, well learn how to catch them just cuse that you want to fight them doesn't mean they want to so if you cant catch them your problem and its not broken fly an interceptor thats what they are there for.
he was in gall mill now minmitar now that were t4 and gall mill is t1, ok so he hopped fractions to make isk, you can do it to.
Only think i could realy see that is broken is Orbital bombbarment I would like to see the beacon that you warp to to start bombing show up overly as soon as there a fight going on insted of finding dust members in game, out of game.
So the solution to the problem is to gimp your ship into something that can't beat anything but ******** stabbed farmers?
Here is a better solution, make plex sites impossible to do with ****** stabbed ships. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Plato Forko
Of Questionable Lineage
53
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Posted - 2014.04.06 20:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't particularly care about the farmers, but it's part of what I think is borked with FW and it boils down to this: you're rewarded more for small actions than for doing anything big. When someone invests all the time in putting together a proper fleet to go and occupy a plex against any aggressors, it's a slap in the face to not only get less LP individually for the effort, but also to see the contest rate only change as much as it would have if a single condor ran the plex instead. So in the world of FW, the more time and ISK you risk, the LESS you're rewarded, and that, to me at least, seems totally contrary to how the rest of EvE works. My terribad blog where I QQ and rage about Amarr FW |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1076
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 22:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
If it wasn't broken then it would be called 'whole warfare' and not 'fraction warfare'.
Docked since 2009. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 22:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Because its fractioned. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 22:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beat me to it. |
Twinroads
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
3
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Posted - 2014.04.07 02:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Name any activity in Eve and you're bound to find a group of people whining and complaining about it being broken. Hell, even Eve as a whole is broken if you believe some people. The fact that something is imperfect does not mean that it is broken, but it is much easier to affirm an extreme position (and loudly, at that) than it is to come to a nuanced position on the matter. |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
40
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think it's about being tired, realy.
I considered hunting farmers to be a challenge and a thrill (your ship does suck with 2+ scrams on it). I think I might change the idea in 2-3 years tough :P
Singature Radius 48 m |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Fire Nation Syndicate
732
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen wrote:I dont understand it, people are saying its broken and need fixed but they don't really say what is wrong with it. I love Fw the way that it is I can only see mabye small twikes to change it but its by no means broken in my eyes.
some thing I have heard people say is
stop the wc stabs, Well there is a counter to that people have 3 stabs on ship well ill bring 2 warp scrambilers problem soved,
There farmers that only plex run away never fight, yes they farm but bring help bring system venerable and are valuable in fw so they dont pvp and run, well learn how to catch them just cuse that you want to fight them doesn't mean they want to so if you cant catch them your problem and its not broken fly an interceptor thats what they are there for.
he was in gall mill now minmitar now that were t4 and gall mill is t1, ok so he hopped fractions to make isk, you can do it to.
Only think i could realy see that is broken is Orbital bombbarment I would like to see the beacon that you warp to to start bombing show up overly as soon as there a fight going on insted of finding dust members in game, out of game. So the solution to the problem is to gimp your ship into something that can't beat anything but ******** stabbed farmers? Here is a better solution, make plex sites impossible to do with ****** stabbed ships.
EVE is about variety of fits and ships and tactics, if you do not want to change then stabbed farmers run. Why game has to change if you are not willing to. |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
100
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think the main gripe is that I can make a band new alt and on an untrained character of about 55k SP I can orbit a button in a plex and receive bacon, or in this case LP.
Mostly afk I might add. -Bl+¦d |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
416
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Its a PVP environment that requires no PVP to make oodles of isk because of poor Plex design.
So yeah, thats the issue. |
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Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Fire Nation Syndicate
734
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Its a PVP environment that requires no PVP to make oodles of isk because of poor Plex design.
So yeah, thats the issue.
CCP does not want to reward pvp too much, they want that people grind something boring for their isk. |
Stig Sterling
Rapid Withdrawal
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Its a PVP environment that requires no PVP to make oodles of isk because of poor Plex design.
So yeah, thats the issue. CCP does not want to reward pvp too much, they want that people grind something boring for their isk.
Not true. EVE has always been about risk versus reward (or risk for ISK, as it were), and I don't believe that they want to have a system where people are rewarded for safe repetitive tasks.
This may be a bit naive to say, but I that if the community can come up with a viable system that fits three risk versus reward model, then CCP will be happy to implement it |
Starbuck05
Evil Monkey Asylum Evil Monkeys Asylum
171
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 08:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fw is broken because it should be a pvp activity from which you can also sustain yourself and not a pve activity where all that matters is just isk. It should be a war in which you can count on your allies when you fight in a plex and not just see them cloack up and you die.
People say farmers arent an issue , fit 2-3 scrams and go for it , but its not that simple ..because you need to find thr cloacked up dude in the plex before you can tackle, and if they are not cloacked they warp away long before you can even close the distance.
Why should we dedicate hours on end chasing these good for nothings?
Sure , you can say that beeing a sandbox one can chose if they want to fight or make isk, but if you want to make isk run the damn missions instead..don't thrash the warzone and eliminate the income for the people that want to make isk but don't run away from a fight aswell because they also want to pvp -á- I am the commanding officer , u should adress me as sir ! -á- But if i call u sir , what would i call your wife then ?? |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
734
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 08:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Stig Sterling wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Its a PVP environment that requires no PVP to make oodles of isk because of poor Plex design.
So yeah, thats the issue. CCP does not want to reward pvp too much, they want that people grind something boring for their isk. Not true. EVE has always been about risk versus reward (or risk for ISK, as it were), and I don't believe that they want to have a system where people are rewarded for safe repetitive tasks. This may be a bit naive to say, but I that if the community can come up with a viable system that fits three risk versus reward model, then CCP will be happy to implement it
There is risk to lose your ship while plexing and plexers do lose lot of ships daily. Thing is , not many want to die on purpose, they will excape if they can with stabs or not, they also could fight for plex but when you go in with your FOTM coocie cutter fit they do not have any change no matter if they fit pvp fit because they are just newish chars.
Idea about having quality pvp against farmers is bit tricky, farmer is waiting in plex , someone who want to kill him checks out his ship, kb stats etc... and then decides if he could take farmer down or not. Usually when he decides to come in and kill farmer he is almost sure he can kill the farmer so why would farmer stay in plex, only reason is that farmer did same checks and came to conclusion that killer who is coming in can be beaten, so only way to get pvp is that someone misjudge enemy skills and fits.
So if you want to kill farmer you have to look like easy prey. So you have to gimp you ship and take something that looks not so scary, maybe even use your own low skill alt to get initial tackle.
It is about tactics not about risk / rewards.
If we are looking about fault from current system i would say it is poor reward from defensive plexing on low contested systems, but if CCP boost that will it end whole fw farming and systems become empty again. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
931
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 09:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Stig Sterling wrote:
Not true. EVE has always been about risk versus reward (or risk for ISK, as it were), and I don't believe that they want to have a system where people are rewarded for safe repetitive tasks.
This may be a bit naive to say, but I that if the community can come up with a viable system that fits three risk versus reward model, then CCP will be happy to implement it
I highlighted the important part.
Where you have it completely wrong about eve.
The most isk making activities in eve are boring and tedious (that is why they are called grinds). Eve has always been portrayed as a risk v reward type of game however the simple fact that highsec is the most populous, that eve hardcore pvp'er often have multiple 'alt's toons' doing boring grinds (lvl 4's, exploration, manufacturing, station trading etc) just goes to show that the underlying backbone of eve is the people who are willing to grind for the isk.
FW is not broken. It has cause way more pvp and ship explosions in general since it was revamped with inferno than it did probably for it entire previous existence.
Is it what a lot of the bitter vets want. Probably not. They should just move on and go whine somewhere else tbh. Farming in FW is just as risky as running lvl 4's etc but what a lot of people just don't get is that people who 'farm' fw don't get their isk from nowhere. All FW farmers are doing is transferring someone else isk to themselves. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
931
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 09:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Starbuck05 wrote:Fw is broken because it should be a pvp activity from which you can also sustain yourself and not a pve activity where all that matters is just isk. It should be a war in which you can count on your allies when you fight in a plex and not just see them cloack up and you die.
This is the one quote that sums up the entire FW is broken argument from the pvp'ing groups.
However this is eve and to be perfectly honest if you want just a pvp environment then you should go play an arena type of game. One of the fundamental aspects of eve that is if you lose you actually lose something. Therefore making isk the biggest driver for everything in eve.
There is farming in every single aspect of eve and FW was no different, even before inferno, all that changed was it became known and simple of new toons to do it. TBH it was just as easy previously if you knew how to do it etc.
FW is better than it was. and the biggest problem IMO is that there are a lot of bitter vets out there that would effectively ruin FW with all their 'fixes' then they would just whine how no one does FW anymore. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Starbuck05
Evil Monkey Asylum Evil Monkeys Asylum
172
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tbh i'd rather have to roam about 10 jumps away to find a fight cause of reduced nr's if the farmers leave instead of chasing people around every system then leaving dissapointed...
Tell me this , in situations where i was forced to go head and ass in againts 2 sometimes 3 farmers at the same time in just my ordinary t1 frig and they would still run away... How is that not an issue?
Im not saying you shouldnt run away when you believe the odds are not good, i do it aswell cause im not ******** but common... Its just frustrating.. -á- I am the commanding officer , u should adress me as sir ! -á- But if i call u sir , what would i call your wife then ?? |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
735
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Starbuck05 wrote:Tbh i'd rather have to roam about 10 jumps away to find a fight cause of reduced nr's if the farmers leave instead of chasing people around every system then leaving dissapointed...
Tell me this , in situations where i was forced to go head and ass in againts 2 sometimes 3 farmers at the same time in just my ordinary t1 frig and they would still run away... How is that not an issue?
Im not saying you shouldnt run away when you believe the odds are not good, i do it aswell cause im not ******** but common... Its just frustrating..
then do something else, problem solved. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
150
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Starbuck05 wrote:Im not saying you shouldnt run away when you believe the odds are not good, i do it aswell cause im not ******** but common... Its just frustrating.. We solved it by basing out of a system right next door to a CalMil home system. We know the corps that live in that area, and they're not shy about taking fights. Just focus on finding areas where PvP focused corps live, and fly there.
It's a whole lot less frustrating when you focus on finding people who are up for fights instead of roaming backwater systems noone lives in just to chase folks who are risk averse and focused on avoiding fights.
Granted, from what I've heard there's not many corps in the Min/Amarr zone who actually live full time in a lowsec warzone system, so that's probably part of it.
|
Beardon
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
26
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:
Granted, from what I've heard there's not many corps in the Min/Amarr zone who actually live full time in a lowsec warzone system, so that's probably part of it.
I never really got this mentality to be honest. Granted, losing a home system that you're invested in sucks, as you guys have demonstrated recently, but it's also what makes it interesting and fun. If there was nothing on the line, then there would be a hell of a lot less pilots trying to defend it resulting in way less epic battle. We risk our stuff by putting it in space, and it gives us reason to defend it. We're here for pvp, so this is a long term win, even if it means we get locked out for a while. Living in FW space makes it matter, and it gives better access to pvp. Who the **** wants to go 4 jumps to just get into the WZ, let alone find fights?
Glad I live in cal/gal space where stuff happens and people care. |
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