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Jethrow Toralen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 10:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would it be reasonable to say that new players are net importers of PLEX into New Eden (either through direct purchase or indirectly as a result of buddy rewards entering the system), and that established players are net consumers of PLEX, through multiple plexed accounts and characters? |
Dr Strange Love
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2014.04.07 10:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
In general I'd have to say yes.
However Eve has a higher average age than most MMO (30+ I think). I bet quite a few older players find it easier to work an hours overtime at work and buy a couple of PLEX a month to top up their ISK, instead of playing Eve for a few hours.
Leaving all their Eve time free for explosions. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3950
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Posted - 2014.04.07 11:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes and no.
I think in general yes, but I also know a fair bit of players (including myself) that dont want to grind ISK if they need it and just sell a PLEX when their wallets become low. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2126
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Posted - 2014.04.07 11:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
confirming that I've used the PLEX sales around Christmas as a "gift to self".
Other times, it's been the same as J'Poll -- I just don't wanna grind in game (or ask for a loan) to get whatever, and a PLEX or two is sufficient to get me the ISK I need. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Gregor Parud
426
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Posted - 2014.04.07 14:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jethrow Toralen wrote:Would it be reasonable to say that new players are net importers of PLEX into New Eden (either through direct purchase or indirectly as a result of buddy rewards entering the system), and that established players are net consumers of PLEX, through multiple plexed accounts and characters?
There's 3 groups who add to the supply:
1) new players, although I highly doubt there's enough influx of new players to affect the supply in any grand way
2) bad players who for various reasons add to the supply, perhaps because they think that expensive bling ships will give make them ruler of the universe or to replace lost assets due to pvp/stupidity/scams/corp stealing
3) people with disposable income who can do maths, folks who work during the day and realised that for less than an hour of RL work they'd have to work/grind for a LONG time within the game. They log in, spend some cash avoiding the need to grind and have fun with whatever they do. Not at all bothered by the, to them, low plex prices. I'd wager that this is the biggest group
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Yarda Black
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
110
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Although the statement sounds reasonable, I'd have to disagree. Now... before I continue... notice the word "think". Cos I have no data about this at all. You may be utterly correct. I just don't think so. Right now. Yet.
I think most of the PLEX is sold by older players who dont want to use ingame ways to generate ISK and can afford PLEX to sell and use that to fund their ingame activities.
I think most of the PLEX is bought by older players who cant afford PLEX and use game mechanics to generate ISK and use that to fund EVE subscriptions.
In general you will notice a lot of people forget/ignore EVE is a global game. Its not only people from "western" countries that play. There's plenty of people out there with a welfare standard that is much lower than that of Europeans or Americans. PLEX is an awesome way to keep those guys onboard and capable of shooting at you.
Another reason to keep all those kids and their micro transactions out. |
Cara Forelli
End-of-Line Sky Syndicate
319
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:presently surprised by the OP.
I'm currently surprised by the OP as well.
Also you have to be careful purchasing your first PLEX. That's a floodgate that can't be closed, once opened. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3384
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Posted - 2014.04.07 20:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Also you have to be careful purchasing your first PLEX. That's a floodgate that can't be closed, once opened. I used to have more accounts than I currently do, and I used PLEX-for-ISK for them.
Once in a while I'd buy a GTC to keep the PLEX-ed accounts going when my wallet was low and I didn't want to buy a PLEX with ISK.
One day I added-up all those "once in a while" GTC purchases, and let me tell you, over several years the amount spent on GTC was quite troubling.
I reduced the number of my accounts, and haven't had to buy a GTC since.
Buying GTC / PLEX for cash is definitely something you may want to limit. |
Galaxy Pig
new order logistics CODE.
890
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Posted - 2014.04.07 21:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
I belong to the third group as mentioned above.
That said, I think buying a PLEX is one of the best things a noob can do in this game to improve their own new player experience.
The only fun thing to do in this game that actually produces consistent ISK is scamming.
Welcome to EVE! Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory.-áAll miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code.-áMining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com to learn more. |
Jethrow Toralen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.04.08 06:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ty for replies.
J'Poll wrote: P.s. came here to expect some stupid idea from a new player how PLEX should be used.
Heh! Well there is still time for that ;)
Reason for question is I am trying to understand the pattern of the PLEX market, for curiousity really, not interested in trying to play the market and am not reliant on plex to play. I am only looking at the data qualitatively (hence thought experiment) though I did punch a sample of nos. in (with a completely non-rigorous sample selection and no formal tests!) to see if quantity sold daily has changed over a year. (It appears to have)
The plex price shows fluctuations sitting on a lovely linear trend (which breaks down a bit in the last month and I am suspecting this is due to a large influx of new players after the big fight in late January, who after a month in game were ready to buy their first plex, exacerbated by temp increased demand for plex to pay for Fanfest).
I'm trying to understand where that linear trend* comes from and whether it is tenable.
It's not just a simple case of inflation/expansion of the isk supply, because if it were other 'staples' would show the same pattern. I looked at a few items (eg. minerals high end and low end, catalysts (lol) - things that might reflect distinct segments of the player population), but actually, while some items had quite a bit of volatility, the underlying pattern was pretty much stationary, which led me to conclude that there isn't appreciable inflation in Eve.
So, at first pass, I am led to think the increasing prices of PLEX are actually a response to increased demand (even with slightly increased supply).
Where is that increased demand coming from? Is it a change in preferences by the player popn at large for playing 'free' vs. subbing? Is it a change in player demographics (larger proportion of players who are obliged to use plex due to financial circs)? Is it a reflection of in-game wealth accumulation enabling players to increase their rate of wealth accumulation eg. by plexing extra accounts or extra chars on a single account?
It's the last possibility that I think might lead to an untenable situation.
*Re: the lovely linear line. Eve first popped up on my radar about a year ago (tho I am a post Jan battle noob) when I read this wonderful faux-naive but very clever imo, interview of CCP's economist. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/03/eve-fanfest-2013-the-invisible-hand-of-eve-online/ Possibly that gives a hint why the underlying trend is so lovely and linear - as he mentions that while CCP do not 'print' plex, they do use confiscated plex to affect the price. (And obviously other tools like plex sales) |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
612
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Posted - 2014.04.08 09:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jethrow Toralen wrote:Ty for replies. J'Poll wrote: P.s. came here to expect some stupid idea from a new player how PLEX should be used.
Heh! Well there is still time for that ;) this imo has most to do with plex prices, dual character training, ship skinning(you need aur i.e. you need plex first)olso yes ccp do "regulate" the plex market but you would need someone with better info than I do.
You should also watch the market reaction of anything affected by the stickys here i.e. pirate cruiser rebalance and the soon tba pirate battleship rebalance (should be up at some point this week) Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Jethrow Toralen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:this imo has most to do with plex prices, dual character training, ship skinning(you need aur i.e. you need plex first)olso yes ccp do "regulate" the plex market but you would need someone with better info than I do. You should also watch the market reaction of anything affected by the stickys here i.e. pirate cruiser rebalance and the soon tba pirate battleship rebalance (should be up at some point this week) Is that link correct (I am seeing a blurry forum question on 'What is the easiest way to find up to date info on Eve')?
I'm comfortable with the small shocks to the market (cyclical and seasonal variation), it's the seemingly inexorable linear trend up for PLEX that makes me wonder.
Also I mentioned 3 scenarios as to why this might be occurring, they are just off the top of my head, there could be lots of other explanations - very interested to hear other perspectives. And while I said that I thought the last of the 3 options was untenable - they are all pretty untenable, but maybe the 3rd is the least desirable. In the first scenario, the reduced access to plex because of higher prices is distributed over the whole plex-using player base (tho' established players will likely have better resistance); in the second, 'new blood' is pricing other 'new blood' out of the game; and in the third, 'old blood' is pricing 'new blood' out of the game.
I'm assuming there will be a point where plex reaches a price that a newer player hoping to play 'for free' won't be able to accumulate the isk required in a month to pay their ongoing sub. That will probably reduce the number of incoming new people to shoot and be shot by, which doesn't sound like a good thing.
Ideally, for CCP to do the best out of the situation, they would want everyone who can afford to pay for accts to do so, leaving plex purchase for isk to those who cannot. (Oh J'Poll, I have an awful awful probably universally-despised and derided idea about how to accomplish this, but I am not going to mention it!!! :D ) |
Jethrow Toralen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 23:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Is my thread bollocks and people are too kind to say? (That doesn't sound like Eve players :D )
If totally barking up the wrong tree, it would be instructive to hear I'm off the mark on X, Y etc and it is more likely to be W with an eventual outcome of Z - please post that too! |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3985
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 00:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jethrow Toralen wrote:Is my thread bollocks and people are too kind to say? (That doesn't sound like Eve players :D )
If totally barking up the wrong tree, it would be instructive to hear I'm off the mark on X, Y etc and it is more likely to be W with an eventual outcome of Z - please post that too!
We would, if we were allowed to.
But apparantly CCP insists we play nice with the good newbies that know how to use the forums to ask their questions.
You could try to ask the same in GD, it will deliver what you are expecting. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
325
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jethrow Toralen wrote: The plex price shows fluctuations sitting on a lovely linear trend (which breaks down a bit in the last month and I am suspecting this is due to a large influx of new players after the big fight in late January, who after a month in game were ready to buy their first plex, exacerbated by temp increased demand for plex to pay for Fanfest).
I'm trying to understand where that linear trend* comes from and whether it is tenable.
It's not just a simple case of inflation/expansion of the isk supply, because if it were other 'staples' would show the same pattern. I looked at a few items (eg. minerals high end and low end, catalysts (lol) - things that might reflect distinct segments of the player population), but actually, while some items had quite a bit of volatility, the underlying pattern was pretty much stationary, which led me to conclude that there isn't appreciable inflation in Eve.
Some things to consider about the rising linear trend.
1. It is hard to compare apples to apples here when forming an inflation quantifier because while availability of minerals and such changes based on game balance changes, while plex availability is unaffected. The economics report released periodically does acknowledge a steady rate of inflation that is generally considered healthy.
2. People who are buying plex are buying based off an increasing real income. Since statistically most people see their income increase over the course of their lives. So players will become progressively more likely to purchase plex as their real income improves.
3. Eve is the only MMO that I know of with a generally increasing user base, this increase in player accounts will generally result in increased demand.
Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
newb newbnewb
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think the real PLEX flow is PvPers buy them for real and sell in game for ISK, while the industrialists grind for ISK so they can play for free.
The "age" (toon or player) probably has less to do with the flow of PLEX than their play style does. |
newb newbnewb
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think the biggest driver in the price of PLEX is the profitability of ratting and industry. That is, the ISK per hour rate. How many hours do I have to play to fund my account? If it is low enough, I'll PLEX. If it takes too long to grind he ISK, I'll just pay for my sub.
So, the rising price of PLEX could be the result of 1) Changes to Null rock refining. 2) Mobile tractor, mobile refit thingy.
These could increase the profitability of grinding ISK, lowering the hrs per PLEX, making more people attempt to fund accounts with PLEX, increasing the price of PLEX in ISK terms.
On the flip side, it could be that fewer PvPers are buying PLEX with real and selling in-game for ISK that others did the grind to get... or more are doing the illegal RMT thing, bypassing PLEX and denying free-play opportunity to grinders by handing it to RMT botters. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3411
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
If you can believe The Mitanni, and in a SOTG "leak" released April 1st, and posted on Reddit that they are known to troll, he claims they are purposely trying to drive the price of PLEX over 1b.
My Magic 8-Ball exploded when I asked if it was true or not. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3987
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 22:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:If you can believe The Mitanni, and in a SOTG "leak" released April 1st, and posted on Reddit that they are known to troll, he claims they are purposely trying to drive the price of PLEX over 1b.
My Magic 8-Ball exploded when I asked if it was true or not.
I wouls love if the did it. And if anybody ciuld, its Goons. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
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