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Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
7
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Posted - 2014.04.07 13:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
This would allow more Rorquals onto the mining field
Have mining bonuses work without siege, re purpose the industrial core Instant onsite compression of ores
When active, extends the Rorquals Shield out to a 15km radius, with the same effect as a pos force field, no locking from within, no bouncing. when the rorq's shield fail the bubble fails.
While in IPM, similar bonuses as bastion. 30% bonus to resists 100% bonus to shield booster 100% bonus to Remote Reps Immobile Immune to e-war while active Uses 50,000 heavy water per 5 min cycle (reduces with skill) (max cycle a rorq could hold is 40 mins) No active drones
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4084
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Posted - 2014.04.07 14:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
I am noticing a disconnect, when people discuss the Rorqual.
I am seeing expectations for use of caps, and supercaps, that involve extensive support and cooperation. That is wonderful, and I cannot think of anyone who would disagree. (Well, maybe that guy ratting in a cap... he gets mixed reviews)
Well, the Rorqual is an industrial capital ship. If you consider the Orca as a cap, then this must be a supercap equivalent.
Now, when I see these operating on their home turf, they sit in a POS, and remote boost. OK, that makes sense, they have no meaningful defense on their own, and raising a fleet to just sit and twiddle it's thumbs while mining takes place.... this is no more popular than PvP guarding miners. (It rarely happens, something about being boring, go figure)
Ok, so what about when they go into hostile territory, like NPC null, or somebody else's sov space? They get a fleet then, right? (Sound of crickets chirping) Uhhh.... I HAVE heard of them being used in wormholes, I understand the clone bay function is well liked.
I have never heard of these, outside of possible novelty events, used on a regular basis outside of POS shields.
It seems these ships draw attention, because A: They are mad expensive to put on the field B: They are allergic to risk because of point A.
They are not designed to have the player controlling them welcome, or much less seek out, hostile attention.
Their design seems inclined to punish players who make mistakes about security, and effectively hold down the ship for punishment.
In my opinion, this ship will have more action, and interaction, when they can be put on the field more securely. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Humang
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
59
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
I was thinking of something similar, but the glaring issue being that when deployed it makes it a MASSIVE target; as its stands now you rarely/never take one far from a POS shield. It just doesn't have the raw HP of towers, nor the re-enforce timers that allow for a defense to be set up, no amount of tank will change that. Thus there's just way to much risk with not enough reward involved.
But with saying that I do like the idea of getting them away from POS towers; I like the idea of it being a mobile tower, but again as I stated above its just not viable unless there is some kind of additional defense that isn't just MORE TANK.
I had a crazy idea of having a unique strength bonus/additional function to the Target Spectrum Breakers. I don't know if its possible, but the basics of what i was thinking is that when the Rorq is deployed, a fitted Target breaker has a chance to cause anything that begins to lock the Rorq to have that lock "switch" to a different target (be that another ship or some other entity) That attacker is not made aware of this, until they physically look at there there shots are going, and would have to unlock and then re-lock the Rorq again to fore upon it.
Imagine a Titan trying to dooms-day a deployed Rorq and ends up shooting a nearby dread, or a carriers drones begin destroying each-other
There is probably a whole bunch of details that I have missed, but it's a conversation starter... AFK Cloaking Thread summary - Provided by Paikis
-á-á-á-á-á - Witty Comment Here - |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4084
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Humang wrote:I was thinking of something similar, but the glaring issue being that when deployed it makes it a MASSIVE target; as its stands now you rarely/never take one far from a POS shield. It just doesn't have the raw HP of towers, nor the re-enforce timers that allow for a defense to be set up, no amount of tank will change that. Thus there's just way to much risk with not enough reward involved. But with saying that I do like the idea of getting them away from POS towers; I like the idea of it being a mobile tower, but again as I stated above its just not viable unless there is some kind of additional defense that isn't just MORE TANK. I had a crazy idea of having a unique strength bonus/additional function to the Target Spectrum Breakers. I don't know if its possible, but the basics of what i was thinking is that when the Rorq is deployed, a fitted Target breaker has a chance to cause anything that begins to lock the Rorq to have that lock "switch" to a different target ( be that another ship or some other entity) That attacker is not made aware of this, until they physically look at there there shots are going, and would have to unlock and then re-lock the Rorq again to fore upon it. Imagine a Titan trying to dooms-day a deployed Rorq and ends up shooting a nearby dread, or a carriers drones begin destroying each-otherThere is probably a whole bunch of details that I have missed, but it's a conversation starter... I believe this can be summed up as:
The ship represents too much risk because of an excessive cost of replacement, added to an almost nonexistent defense profile. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2126
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Funny, I recall one of my PvP buddies considering making a battle-rorq ...
Don't remember the specifics, but it had decent enough tank and DPS for him to mention doing that with it ... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you want to see more on the field then make it immune to all forms of warp disruption; points and bubbles. If the attack doesn't wreck it fast enough it escapes. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
395
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes to the boost separation from indy core.
However, I have never liked the idea of bringing the POS shields with the Rorqual. If we want to get it out of the POS why would we bring the shields with? I would honestly bring my rorq on-grid immediately if they separated boosts, any changes after that are icing on the cake.
Of course I love my rorq and would love to see what they have planned for it. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
395
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Funny, I recall one of my PvP buddies considering making a battle-rorq ...
Don't remember the specifics, but it had decent enough tank and DPS for him to mention doing that with it ... It's for use as a bait ship. I have used mine in a similar way.not many people can resist the juiciness of a rorq kill to consider that there are 5 carriers and a gank fleet waiting on the other end of its cyno. |
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2014.04.07 20:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
With deployable structures on the rise what if the industrial core was one of the new deployables only usable via the rorqual?
Now what the structure does and the role of the rorq after it deploys it is up in the air. The industrial core could act as a mini tower giving a shield that the rorq can sit inside (as well as near by mining vessels) Since it deploys the structure it still gets a reinforce timer should it get shot at. The shield could be relatively small, only large enough for the rorq, orca, and maybe half a dozen to a dozen miner ships could squeeze in.
Reinforce would last likely 1-3 hours (balance). The core could only be deployed within 15-25km off the nearest asteroid. (balance) The core would still compress ore while in reinforce. The rorqs mining bonuses are active only while on grid with an active industry core. All other bonuses are not applied to any ship inside the core aside from the rorqual.
Now this works out well for most parties. Those who attack can still get the drop on the miners who would have to run back to their pos or the deployed core's shield. If they head to the shield then it will likely enter reinforce quickly giving the defenders time to call for aid (if they have any combat pilots). The reinforce timer is short enough that it shouldn't cause major problems and you can always put up a bubble around the entire thing trapping its occupants.
Those inside the shield can't shoot out but they CAN send out drones to mine or attack (balance). Another possible thing could be proximity of the rorqual to the deployed core in order to keep the structure up. Maybe give it a 30-60 minute time span without a rorqual to "power" it. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2128
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Posted - 2014.04.07 20:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Velicitia wrote:Funny, I recall one of my PvP buddies considering making a battle-rorq ...
Don't remember the specifics, but it had decent enough tank and DPS for him to mention doing that with it ... It's for use as a bait ship. I have used mine in a similar way.not many people can resist the juiciness of a rorq kill to consider that there are 5 carriers and a gank fleet waiting on the other end of its cyno.
Maybe ... he was gonna bring it POS bashing, I think ...
or maybe he was just overly drunk that night. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3385
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
No to the force field mechanic (it isn't a shield either). CCP is trying to get rid of force fields, not add more.
Other than that, seems like a recycle of my last post on the topic. You can actually trace the development of these ideas over the years if you search my posts.
So now I'm gonna hijack this thread, and discuss my post some more...
From my post, the features that shouldn't be negotiable in my opinion * EWAR immunity. * Mining link bonus while the core is active, so that the Rorqual is on par with the Orca with the core inactive. These just seem like common sense to me.
If the Rorqual is gonna have drones for defence, then it needs a LOT more of them: * Expansion of the drone bay to fighter size - 1 m3, but no additional bandwidth. * One additional drone (2?) per level of Capital Industrial skill. [If "No" to this, then it needs an even bigger drone bay.] I've probably GREATLY under-buffed here, after reading the proposed Gila changes. Cruisers like the new GIla, and the Tristan shouldn't be more powerful than a Rorqual.
If the Rorqual has to become immobile, then it needs benefits that counteract this huge risk: * Industrial core cycle time reduced to one minute, like bastion. Heavy water usage reduction, or elimination. * Extremely high structure resists while the core is active, like bastion mode. Structure-only to help avoid a Rorqual fleet doctrine. The idea being survivability long enough for support to arrive (=content creation). * Bonus to local shield boosting amount and / or capacitor use reduction while the core is active.
I can't really decide on the remote shield boost bonus remaining. On the one hand, it makes perfect sense and I think it should remain, for repping miners and drones. However, on the other hand, it might have to be sacrificed to prevent the Rorqual from being abused as a logistics platform.
Other: * Expansion of the ore hold. * Expansion of the ship hangar. Possibly allow non-industrial ships, but then a smaller size increase.
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Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
730
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Posted - 2014.04.08 06:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Rorq can already fit a pretty good tank. And you can unironically structure tank it to over 1mil ehp.
It can defend ships in fleets by fitting combat gang links. And it can defend ships on grid because it gets the same capital shield rep range bonus found on carrier.
If fit properly, it can take a lot of abuse while defending other ships. It is just that few people actually fit it that way. They fit max cargo and max mining boosts instead.
It could use a bigger drone bay, and remove the industrial only restriction on the ship hanger so miners can reship to combat ships. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4084
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Posted - 2014.04.08 13:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:The Rorq can already fit a pretty good tank. And you can unironically structure tank it to over 1mil ehp.
It can defend ships in fleets by fitting combat gang links. And it can defend ships on grid because it gets the same capital shield rep range bonus found on carrier.
If fit properly, it can take a lot of abuse while defending other ships. It is just that few people actually fit it that way. They fit max cargo and max mining boosts instead.
It could use a bigger drone bay, and remove the industrial only restriction on the ship hanger so miners can reship to combat ships. No sarcasm intended, but it sounds like you are saying leave the rorq at home and just bring a PvP cap or supercap.
If it can't put out meaningful boosts, having it on field just to compress ore sounds too unrewarding for the risk. Stick it in a POS for that, and have a more versatile ship boost instead. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1936
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
How do miners mine if you can't lock anything inside the rorq shields?
Or are the miners not supposed to be inside them? |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4084
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:How do miners mine if you can't lock anything inside the rorq shields?
Or are the miners not supposed to be inside them? Not entirely sure, but it sounds to me like they are supposed to be just outside them, and race inside when threatened. Kinda like a clown fish does with a sea anemone.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Budrick3
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
33
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like the orignal posters idea. +1 |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2014.04.08 21:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: No sarcasm intended, but it sounds like you are saying leave the rorq at home and just bring a PvP cap or supercap.
If it can't put out meaningful boosts, having it on field just to compress ore sounds too unrewarding for the risk. Stick it in a POS for that, and have a more versatile ship boost instead.
Not saying that at all. The Rorq still gives the best mining boosts. But it is sort of gimped in that it can only give those top boosts while deployed, and can't let miners reship to combat ships. It has a nice drone bonus, but is rather limited in the selection of drones it can hold.
I own a couple Rorquals, and really the best utility of them is that they are like a mini jump freighter. They hold less but cost less, and are great for nullsec because you can fit MWDs to align faster and cynos to cry for help. |
Ream Lolstar
WALLTREIPERS The Initiative.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think that if you let the rorqual cloak while deployed it will solve a lot of problems, you will deploy it in the belt so she can defend the miners, she can use the capital tractor beam to haul and she can cloak when a neut comes in, risk vs reward, if you are not paying attention, then the neut will spot the rorqual and you will be screwed. |
Rialen
Gravit Negotii Northern Associates.
2
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Here is another Variation on the idea of changing rorq:
1. Do not have POS shield as suggested previously. 2. Have mobile structures or POS guns that can be anchored or launched at the belt 3. Make it so that the rorq's core needs to be active for said guns or mobile turrets to be active 4. Have an emergency core shutdown which will discharge a lot of fuel to stop the core immediately so it can start moving.
In summary:
Rorq's core provide a CPU/Powergrid in the grid or small range (in km), allowing POS offensive modules to become active and able to defend miners from NPC rats or other players. It is essentially allowing pos modules to run without the POS or POS shield so its a matter of who survives longest, the Rorq + POS weapons or the PVP fleet. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
533
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Death to the Indy core
Long live the mighty rorqual |
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