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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:48:00 -
[541] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:I disagree with this. Of course there will be an outcry when you propose to nerf someones favourite toy, but that shouldn't prevent you from making the right balance decision.
I feel a bit annoyed that experienced players would make an outcry for selfish reasons without the general balance of the game being taken into consideration. Throwing their toys out the pram just because they wont be able to insta kill frigates with dreadnoughts is quite pathetic.
Personally, webs are very strong, I think they should be bought down to a maximum of 50% strength for the T2 web. And it is simply bad mechanics that a single ship can effectively take the whole speed/transveral/positioning aspect of pvp out of the picture, and makes for a very boring experience. Could say the same thing about you people.. OMG OP Serpentis Web ships that are for the most part RARELY seen in combat, and still only have an effective range of ~25km Overheated.. Bring something that can dictate range. Bring something with Ranged Weapons. Bring something with neuts. Bring Blood ships with Neuts and long range webs to dictate range.
There are many many counters to the 3 Serpentis ships. And this is above the fact that they aren't cheap, and are most always primary when seen on grid.
Maybe after this we can cry because Arty ships sometimes alpha us, so it's OP. Or now Angel ships will be able to outrun us so we can't catch em.. OP. OMG it Neuted me.. OP. I'm jammed.. OP..
It's not OP, it's you've had a bad experience, and don't know how/can't be bothered to think up/adjust tactics accordingly. That's not CCP's problem. That's yours. And as CCP has been nice enough to say several times now, including in this thread, it's not changing.
HTFU, or go make (yet another) thread to whine about the evil webs. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
152
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:49:00 -
[542] - Quote
Overall I am, again, underwhelmed. They look like they'll be fun to fly but I don't see anything that really strikes my fancy. As such if the BS changes are in line with these I will be disappointed yet again. No pirate faction gets a bonus to your fancy rapid missiles. It doesn't even look like your "missile" ships are even missile ships, instead you seem to be following a pattern of pushing missiles into a drone support role with pirate ships and that's just screwy.
Overall- Meh |
Mehashi 'Kho
Idiot with a gun
143
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:50:00 -
[543] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The Serpentis web bonus is extremely strong. We went into this balance pass thinking it was probably too strong and that we may need to tune it down. In the first Pirate Faction thread (the Frigates) I asked specifically for feedback on this bonus and how players felt about it. We also brought it up with the CSM during the summit.
The vast majority of feedback from all angles pointed towards an agreement that in certain environments this bonus was extremely powerful but that it wasn't having a negative effect on the game overall and we should leave it alone. I'm not sure if anyone remembers by now but when I casually mentioned changing this bonus during a Reddit AMA there was an outcry to prevent us from doing that at all costs.
Internally we are a bit divided even though we all agree it's one of the game's most powerful bonuses. I want to try and leave it because unique points of power like this one, as long as they aren't oppressive, are more interesting than moving everything towards a middle ground. basically reddit and the council of nullsec are all awful. pls fix webs. you should know how people are in this game - JF owners will tell you JFs aren't broken, people who use ASBs will tell you that ASBs are fine. What is wrong with webs?
Almost every pvp ship has one, and outside of this thread I have never heard them referred to as overpowered. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:52:00 -
[544] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Overall I am, again, underwhelmed. They look like they'll be fun to fly but I don't see anything that really strikes my fancy. As such if the BS changes are in line with these I will be disappointed yet again. No pirate faction gets a bonus to your fancy rapid missiles. It doesn't even look like your "missile" ships are even missile ships, instead you seem to be following a pattern of pushing missiles into a drone support role with pirate ships and that's just screwy.
Overall- Meh The missile pirate faction doesn't exist yet.
There's Lasers, Projectiles, Drones x2, and Hybrids. Missile faction coming soon.. maybe. Minm+Caldari faction. |
dexter xio
TURN LEFT
24
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:52:00 -
[545] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:I would much prefer them to remove the web bonus then take 150PG away.
wat Dexter xio - That cool guy |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
610
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:55:00 -
[546] - Quote
Mehashi 'Kho wrote: What is wrong with webs?
Almost every pvp ship has one, and outside of this thread I have never heard them referred to as overpowered.
they're too good, and kind of wreck the sig and speed vs tank thing that's supposed to be a big deal in eve. 90% webs allow anything to hit anything. with regular webs, you need to put in a bit more effort and use a few of them, possibly with painters as well. it should be obvious - the reason every ship has one is because they're really really good. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
256
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:56:00 -
[547] - Quote
What do you mean I can't fit the largest size guns AND dual prop AND the biggest tank options on my fastest ship in class anymore??? THIS IS UNFAIR CCP
*unsubs*
Core Skills | EVE Music |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
30
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:57:00 -
[548] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The Serpentis web bonus is extremely strong. We went into this balance pass thinking it was probably too strong and that we may need to tune it down. In the first Pirate Faction thread (the Frigates) I asked specifically for feedback on this bonus and how players felt about it. We also brought it up with the CSM during the summit.
The vast majority of feedback from all angles pointed towards an agreement that in certain environments this bonus was extremely powerful but that it wasn't having a negative effect on the game overall and we should leave it alone. I'm not sure if anyone remembers by now but when I casually mentioned changing this bonus during a Reddit AMA there was an outcry to prevent us from doing that at all costs.
Internally we are a bit divided even though we all agree it's one of the game's most powerful bonuses. I want to try and leave it because unique points of power like this one, as long as they aren't oppressive, are more interesting than moving everything towards a middle ground. 75% or 80% webs would still be unique and powerful, without being 500% as strong as normal webs. And it would take more than 2 webs to get an effect that cannot be matched by any number of normal webs. Edit: For the same reason, web resistance will be incredibly difficult to balance. 10% web resist (so like 2%/level) gives you 65% more velocity against 4 webs, and 25% more speed against a single web. With strength bonused webs, 10% web resist gives you double the velocity against 1 web. If you go with a more normal "size" bonus, and give 25% web resist, you get 62% against a single normal web, and 350% velocity against 1 90% web. The bonus against multiple webs becomes even larger.
Now that you've done the math, perhaps you could try to explain what is the actual problem these 90% webs create.
In what ways do the Serpentis tip the balance of PVP on Tranquility? Please also explain the fact that almost nobody ever flies any of them.
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Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3247
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:58:00 -
[549] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:It will be 50% increase for all of them so 4.5 for the Cynabal. So 7.5 AU/s for the Dramiel and 3.0 AU/s for the Machariel? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Major Trant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
701
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:59:00 -
[550] - Quote
A year ago the Cynabal could have done with a nerf, but since then you have buffed just about everything up and it is finally in a decent balanced position... and now you hit it with the nerf bat?
Your summary of the changes is ridiculous, did someone else write the detailed section: . Warp speed multiplier increased (moves through space more like a frigate now) . Slight fitting tweaks
The actual changes: Nerf . -120 PG . -15 CPU . -25 Armor . +200,000 Mass . -33 Scan Res . +5 Sig radius
Buff . -1250ms Recharge . +6 Velocity . -.0045 Agility . +2 Sensor Strength . Some sort of warp speed improvements
You are hitting it right in the balls, with nerfs to it's kiting ability and that PG hit will crucify all current fits. It is a bigger target, with a slower lock time. The buffs to Velocity and Agility will be offset by the increased mass, the recharge and warp speed improvements are just window dressing, no use to anyone. CTRL-Q - Minmatar FW - Low Sec PvP - Euro TZ - New Player Friendly Contact: Major Trant In game channel: FeO Public Recruitment thread: CTRL-Q |
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
409
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:04:00 -
[551] - Quote
I've been doing some theory crafting and number crunching on a web resistance bonus for the Cynabal.
The results are interesting:
Currently a Cynabal under AB does 865 m/s
with standard webs speed reduction looks like this:
865 -> 345 -> 165 with one and two 60% webs respectfully 865 -> 86 with one 90% web
with a 6% per level (30% lvl 5) web resistance bonus this looks like:
865 -> 501 -> 316 with one and two 60% webs respectfully 865 -> 406 with one 90% web
If we look at MWD speeds:
2500 -> 998 -> 478 with one and two 60% webs 2500 -> 250 with one 90% web
with a 6% per level (30% lvl 5) web resistance bonus this looks like:
2500 -> 1450 -> 914 with one and two 60% webs 2500 -> 1175 with one 90% web
I don't think these changes would be ground breaking and would give the Angel ships a certain "Buzz". The effectiveness of this bonus would be felt the most on the Dramiel of course and the Macharial would get the least. I don't have a problem with this so I would propose:
CYNABAL
Gallente Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus: 6% resistance to effectiveness of incoming stasis webifiers per level
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Damage (this leaves the ship with the same effective turrets as the RoF and damage bonuses combined) note: This ship has increased warp speed and acceleration
Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 980 PWG(-120), 335 CPU(-15) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2330 / 2300(-25) / 2065 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1415 / 490000(-1250) / 2.88 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 263(+6) / .45(-.0045) / 9047000(+200000) / 5.64s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47km(+2km) / 390(-33) / 7 Sensor strength: 18(+2) Signature radius: 115(+5)
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
320
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:05:00 -
[552] - Quote
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:Longdrinks wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Also, I'm a little unclear on where the Cynabal stands now. Giving it a warp speed bonus feels a big gimmicky. Gimmicky is fine as long as this token bonus isn't being used to justify a nerf elsewhere. If you're doing fleet warps, it'll be a moot point point 90% of the time. I can't say that warp speed comes up too often in our PvP postmortems. That creates a oppertunity for more skilled players who can warp individually without handholding from a fc to excel. Sounds good to me. Whats the point giving a cruiser higher warp speed and nerfing its fitting capabilities. So it becomes a big interceptor. What you gonna use it for, to tackle carriers equiping small guns to fight off drones? Ridiculous. Whats good of your warping speed when your fighting abilities are highly crippled?
Pretty much this. First off, warping separately from your FC is not really an indicator of anything besides lack of coordination unless you're tackle, ecm, links, or logi. The recent warp speed changes were sensible changes. There's something intuitive about an interceptor getting from A to B faster than a battleship. However, that's more for travel than PvP.
CCP Rise, do you rig any of your PvP cruisers with warp speed rigs? If the answer is no, then perhaps you can understand why I'd feel it's silly to nerf an already outclassed ship to justify a warp speed bump that won't amount to much, if anything, at the end of the day.
Make it 20 AU/s like the Leopard, then we would have something interesting on our hands. A 50% warp speed bump however would not really warrant special Cynabal squads or anything else where people would go out of their way to exploit a ship's role. (This is the whole point of this, right?)
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Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3247
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:07:00 -
[553] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:The missile pirate faction doesn't exist yet. There's Lasers, Projectiles, Drones x2, and Hybrids. Missile faction coming soon.. maybe. Minm+Caldari faction. I was hoping it might be released to coincide with the Pirate rebalance... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
153
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:11:00 -
[554] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:The missile pirate faction doesn't exist yet. There's Lasers, Projectiles, Drones x2, and Hybrids. Missile faction coming soon.. maybe. Minm+Caldari faction. I was hoping it might be released to coincide with the Pirate rebalance... So was I. That way I could be underwhelmed all at once instead of several times. I think it's safe to say that a pirate missile BS will probably have less launchers (effective or otherwise) than a Navy Raven as 8 appears to be the upper limit for launchers, this means that it will have a more niche role that will probably be nifty for all of 5 minutes before being too expensive for PVE and too slow on damage for PVP. But that's a whole 'nother nest of issues that we can save for that roll-out in a few days.
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Redjon Gilead Aerten
Senex Legio
3
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:11:00 -
[555] - Quote
I'd be okay with the powergrid nerf as from playing with EFT decent fits still seem possible, The real kick in the balls that renders even the warp speed pointless is the increase in Mass and decrease in agility, Which as I said earlier seems utterly at odds with the whole point of Angel ships.
Fast and Agile..... Now its a space pig that can .....i guess show up faster to die?
drop the power grid by 120 if you must, But just leave the rest alone at least and buff warp? .
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Kmelx
Matari Exodus
70
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:14:00 -
[556] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote: And as CCP has been nice enough to say several times now, including in this thread, it's not changing.
Actually no they haven't, Rise, Fozzie and Ytrrebium have all put forward or stated their agreement to the idea of nerfing 90% webs before, however, as Rise noted in his post, the last time it was mentioned in passing it spawned a forum threadnought full of ship toasting from people who wanted to continue abusing this OP bonus. |
christmascaveman
Exploding Camels Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:14:00 -
[557] - Quote
One option for the cynabal is to take it in a different direction and have it be a faction logistics ship
- 1) lack of tech II resists means it would use speed to negate dmg, a role it already does.
- 2) A warp speed bonus would allow it to keep up with frig gangs. Logistics frigs do not rep enough, and cruiser hulls just don't warp fast enough to keep up
- 3) Because of its ability to kite, limit its rep range to around 50km
- 4) Other bonus options are to negate the penalties of fitting plates and let it be used with fast armor frigs
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Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:16:00 -
[558] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:3. I'm still sort of scratching my head over this one. While I'm pleased that the Gila is no longer stupidly OP with big drones, I can see issues with it being vulnerable against frigates, although that could be mitigated somewhat with mounting rapid launchers. Aside from that, I see it being unnaturally effective in shield fleets as it will be far and away the best ship at high-end long-range damage projection in the entire faction cruiser line, navy vexor included. Now, I can only hope that a moa remodel comes along with this so I can fly the Gila without throwing up over the model... Uh...what? Did you miss the part where the Gila's drone bonus is only to medium drones? Those are hardly a "long range" weapon system.
No I did not in fact, miss the part where they're only to medium drones, hence my concern with them being vulnerable to frigates. 50+km effective range with potentially full damage qualifies it as a 'long-range' weapon to me. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3248
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:22:00 -
[559] - Quote
christmascaveman wrote:One option for the cynabal is to take it in a different direction and have it be a faction logistics ship Yes, let's turn it into the Nestor "light". No, no and no - dumbest idea proposed yet. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Naomi Anthar
321
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:23:00 -
[560] - Quote
Wow thanks for keeping quiet substantial pwg nerf on vigilant while you save Cyna/Ashimmu !!! Gj Rise. Cynas should stay as good as they are and Ashimmu won't suffer with pwg since it won't fit one more med neut/nos at all. |
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Koizumi Atsuchi
Superator Dies The Harlequin's
1
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:25:00 -
[561] - Quote
Longdrinks wrote:having to fit a ACR to get back the lost pg = highly crippled
Wats the point in having to fit a fitting module to a ship for it to act as it supposed to be. Why would i want to sacrifice extra dps or DC just to make it work. Theres no point in introducing a new ship into a game with some broken mechanics built in it already. Remove a slot then, or add damage bonus, so fitting an ACR would not affect its abilities. Or just remove the ship entirely, if its such a struggle to fly it successfully. If this change gets added no one will fly cynas anymore. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
611
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:27:00 -
[562] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Wow thanks for keeping quiet substantial pwg nerf on vigilant while you save Cyna/Ashimmu !!! Gj Rise. Cynas should stay as good as they are and Ashimmu won't suffer with pwg since it won't fit one more med neut/nos at all.
CCP has this idea that 800mm plates are actually viable, I think. |
Liam Inkuras
Justified Chaos
916
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:29:00 -
[563] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:Wow thanks for keeping quiet substantial pwg nerf on vigilant while you save Cyna/Ashimmu !!! Gj Rise. Cynas should stay as good as they are and Ashimmu won't suffer with pwg since it won't fit one more med neut/nos at all. CCP has this idea that 800mm plates are actually viable, I think. Mixed with an AAR, 800mm plates are indeed quite viable. Quit being such a bitter soul and open your mind. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
726
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:29:00 -
[564] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:Wow thanks for keeping quiet substantial pwg nerf on vigilant while you save Cyna/Ashimmu !!! Gj Rise. Cynas should stay as good as they are and Ashimmu won't suffer with pwg since it won't fit one more med neut/nos at all. CCP has this idea that 800mm plates are actually viable, I think.
mm.. 800's are not very good ... would be nice too have something like a 1200 plate as an effective inbetween Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Naomi Anthar
321
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:34:00 -
[565] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Imagine if a drake with 2 invulns had better tank than any other ship in the game could get with any number of slots devoted to tank. Would that be a well balanced ship?
If serpentis had what the bonus intended (50% stronger webs) it wouldnt be an issue. But what they actually have is 500% web power.
It's long time since people simply closed eyes to how serpentis webs work. I'm just happy it got pwg nerf preventing neutrons along with mwd/1600 combo.
Sadly having 2 serpentis webs is WAY better than having 4 webs.
But hey i hear it is ok and is on par with bonuses like 7,5% tracking or so. Guess it must be true ;).
So yeah at the end of day i will take 150 pwg nerf. At least it will deal less dps. |
Mehashi 'Kho
Idiot with a gun
143
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:34:00 -
[566] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Mehashi 'Kho wrote: What is wrong with webs?
Almost every pvp ship has one, and outside of this thread I have never heard them referred to as overpowered.
they're too good, and kind of wreck the sig and speed vs tank thing that's supposed to be a big deal in eve. 90% webs allow anything to hit anything. with regular webs, you need to put in a bit more effort and use a few of them, possibly with painters as well. it should be obvious - the reason every ship has one is because they're really really good. I always assumed it was more like damage controls.
You dont put a damage control on every ship because they are omg wtf op, you do it because it is the logical thing to do and although not necessarily the best, it's at least the most flexible use youll get out of a low slot. And on any ship that doesn't project damage beyond 20 km or track well under 10km, it is likewise just the sensible thing to do to use a web so you can apply your damage. It is not the best of anything, but the most likely to be useful.
I only really do solo and small fleet (<50) stuff myself, but I can't say webs have ever been an issue worth looking at.
I fear a 40+km curse neut than can't be kited more than an 18km 90% vigilant web. But I don't think either are unbalanced for the cost to bring them to the battle.
Yes some ships and their abilities are strong, but that is the variation that makes it interesting, and especially with the ludicrous cost of pirate cruisers the only reason they are worth the isk over the t1 base ship. Let us not race to the bottom, this is all getting boring enough without losing variation in fittings and flying styles. All this homogenising is removing flavour.
If you reduce the web bonused ships, they lose their niche as range dictation which being hybrid boats is the only thing keeping them viable for their cost. Then they are just like any other ship but unable to apply their dps properly, a vigi at 20km+ is an expensive paperweight.
And why do we always get dropped on by you guys with sacrileges, t3s, absolutions etc? Surely if they were so OP you should be dropping vindi and vigilant fleets on any passing t1 cruiser gang... maybe webs aren't that op after all? |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
94
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:35:00 -
[567] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:I disagree with this. Of course there will be an outcry when you propose to nerf someones favourite toy, but that shouldn't prevent you from making the right balance decision.
I feel a bit annoyed that experienced players would make an outcry for selfish reasons without the general balance of the game being taken into consideration. Throwing their toys out the pram just because they wont be able to insta kill frigates with dreadnoughts is quite pathetic.
Personally, webs are very strong, I think they should be bought down to a maximum of 50% strength for the T2 web. And it is simply bad mechanics that a single ship can effectively take the whole speed/transveral/positioning aspect of pvp out of the picture, and makes for a very boring experience. Could say the same thing about you people.. OMG OP Serpentis Web ships that are for the most part RARELY seen in combat, and still only have an effective range of ~25km Overheated.. Bring something that can dictate range. Bring something with Ranged Weapons. Bring something with neuts. Bring Blood ships with Neuts and long range webs to dictate range. There are many many counters to the 3 Serpentis ships. And this is above the fact that they aren't cheap, and are most always primary when seen on grid. Maybe after this we can cry because Arty ships sometimes alpha us, so it's OP. Or now Angel ships will be able to outrun us so we can't catch em.. OP. OMG it Neuted me.. OP. I'm jammed.. OP.. It's not OP, it's you've had a bad experience, and don't know how/can't be bothered to think up/adjust tactics accordingly. That's not CCP's problem. That's yours. And as CCP has been nice enough to say several times now, including in this thread, it's not changing. HTFU, or go make (yet another) thread to whine about the evil webs. Thanks for the most petulant whiny post I've seen on the forums for while.
I know you like to use these to insta kill frigates with your dreadnoughts, but that doesn't mean the whole game should be balanced around you ok. Think about the bigger picture. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2436
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:36:00 -
[568] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:Sniper Smith wrote: And as CCP has been nice enough to say several times now, including in this thread, it's not changing. Actually no they haven't, Rise, Fozzie and Ytrrebium have all put forward or stated their agreement to the idea of nerfing 90% webs before, however, as Rise noted in his post, the last time it was mentioned in passing it spawned a forum threadnought full of ship toasting from people who wanted to continue abusing this OP bonus.
Yes it obviously couldn't be from people who think the serpentis ships add something unique to the game and could give a damn less about your gate camps
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
140
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:46:00 -
[569] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Sorry for the 5 instead of 4.5 typo. It will be 50% increase for all of them so 4.5 for the Cynabal. When you say that you're also increasing acceleration, does that mean that you are decreasing how quickly they go into and out of their max AU/s warp speed, how quickly it can align then get into warp or both?
P.S. I like the idea quite a bit, but seeing something like carrying the same bonuses over from the dramial, dropping a gun and adding 2 launchers would be an ideal rebalance for the ship itself. I think you would see a lot more happy eggers if you focused on the ship's potential versatility with a 2nd high, and keeping the forming fitting, actually DECREASING the mass a little bit would help it to compete but not surpass its competitors. You don't have to respond to this part if you don't want to; more interested in the top half since that is what is likely going to be just applied. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:47:00 -
[570] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Internally we are a bit divided even though we all agree it's one of the game's most powerful bonuses. I want to try and leave it because unique points of power like this one, as long as they aren't oppressive, are more interesting than moving everything towards a middle ground. I agree, I haven't made much use of serpentis web bonuses, but all the rage in this thread makes me want to go give it a try now. If ship features (in this case, web bonus) can't stand out in meaningful ways, then why bother with this balancing work in the first place? "Moving everything towards a middle ground" as you put it is what most games do, and reduces true variety to a mere illusion of variety. Also, I'm a little unclear on where the Cynabal stands now. Giving it a warp speed bonus feels a big gimmicky. Gimmicky is fine as long as this token bonus isn't being used to justify a nerf elsewhere. If you're doing fleet warps, it'll be a moot point point 90% of the time. I can't say that warp speed comes up too often in our PvP postmortems. The cynabal really doesn't need to be nerfed, at least no one here seems to think so. Is the idea is to just move it out of the spotlight a bit to give other ships a larger chunk of the mindshare? If you don't see the benefit of effectively giving a ship the warp speed of the ship class below it, then you are doing it wrong. |
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