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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Rain6637
Team Evil
13996
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:14:00 -
[91] - Quote
"and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better)" didn't need to mention that last part. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III-á |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:14:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.
I'll make sure we take another look though.
problem with doing nothing is that the other ships getting buffed will move ahead of it and you might have another phantasm problem.. and that was an epic screw up...
but Angel don't really have an identity anymore ... stabber/vaga/rifter all do the same role .. only unique ship is Machariel atm .. but then the vargur got buffed so only real bonus is the lower skill requirement now..
A stronger shield tank (forget omni tanking that should be a minnie thing)with stronger projectile bonuses (masters of projectiles) dramiel shouldn't even have drones makes no sense really...
Serpentis could do with a stronger difference over gallente too .. its webs are insane OP still .. any chance of a web nerf? aswell as maybe reducing serpentis web to 7.5%?
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1127
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:14:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.
I'll make sure we take another look though.
Regarding vaga vs cynabal -
The only thing the cyna has going for it is an extra mid and some extra drones. The vaga has better tank, better cap (which is huge on mwd kite cruiser), better tank, etc.
Give the cynabal a double damage bonus (ie, same damage as now), 15% falloff (from 10%) and the old deimos mwd bonus. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:15:00 -
[94] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:Please reconsider and remove the 90% web bonus from all serp ships or nerf it , removing it from the ashimmu is a great start, but don't leave it on the serp hulls.
web range bonuses are also overpowered |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1127
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:15:00 -
[95] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:Please reconsider and remove the 90% web bonus from all serp ships or nerf it , removing it from the ashimmu is a great start, but don't leave it on the serp hulls.
In my experience 90% webs have two primary in game uses, that is to make gate camps inescapable because you cannot re-approach or it is extremely difficult in even the fastest ships, or they are used to slow ships down to the point where dreads track them so you can blap them. Neither of these mechanics are particularly desirable imo. Gate camping is pretty lame and so is dread blapping.
If you do want to keep a web strength bonus in game, how about this, keep it at 90% on the DD and then have the strength drop off on the vigi and the vindi, the bigger the hull the lower the strength of the web. That makes it possible to at least try to blap a DD on a gate and get out if you run across a camp using 90% webs and it nerfs dread blapping at the same time and gives you a better chance to re-approach if you run into someone camping with Vigilants for example.
So say 90% web on on the DD and 80% on the Vigi and 70% on the Vindi for web strength as figures I just pulled out of the air.
75% webs are twice as strong as 60% webs. I think your numbers are pretty decent, although maybe go 90/80/75 for web strength |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1130
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
Also, here is an idea:
For all ewar bonuses (webs, tds, etc), make the bonus apply fully only to the 1st (best) ewar mod, and then have diminishing strength on further ewar.
So a curse might have 1 60% td, 1 50% td, and then normal strength tds after that.
Huginn might have 1 56km web 1 40km web, 1 20 km web, normal webs after that. |
KiithSoban
Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy
39
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ashimu losing a high slot: No No No No No!!!
what is the ash supposed to do? Be the cruiser that counters logi by neuting. If you take away a high slot the only amount of neuting it will be able to do with reasonable cap stability is about -100 GJ/s. That is not enough to neut out a double-cap-X-ferring logi. The ash NEEDS its current highslot layout. It does not need the additional lowslot, it tanks fine. So there!
*whew* Gila: great idea. Phantasm: I lack input until I eft it. Cyna: great. Expected. Vigilant: It was already fine, but I still regret the -90% webs only when used with blap dreads. I want to see logi appear on killmails! (by just repping)-á See CSM "reasonable things" |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:19:00 -
[98] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Also, here is an idea:
For all ewar bonuses (webs, tds, etc), make the bonus apply fully only to the 1st (best) ewar mod, and then have diminishing strength on further ewar.
So a curse might have 1 60% td, 1 50% td, and then normal strength tds after that.
Huginn might have 1 56km web 1 40km web, 1 20 km web, normal webs after that.
or make it so all its webs are 20km |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1796
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
hey if we are going for crazy role bonus why not make angel ships mwd not shut down by scrams!??!?!?!
so basically all angel ships would be pre nano nerf ships. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
Nice gila nerf... going from 793 dps with ogre / 751 dps with garde down to 636 dps
so a 157 dps NERF
big number stealth nerf there
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1130
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:23:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:Nice gila nerf... going from 793 dps with ogre / 751 dps with garde down to 636 dps
so a 157 dps NERF
big number stealth nerf there
It gets 850 dps with hams w/o rage |
BadAssMcKill
The Kawaii Corporation
709
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:23:00 -
[102] - Quote
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1796
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:Nice gila nerf... going from 793 dps with ogre / 751 dps with garde down to 636 dps
so a 157 dps NERF
big number stealth nerf there
does that include missiles in your numbers? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1130
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:25:00 -
[104] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down
The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:26:00 -
[105] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down
not remove, just nerf massively |
Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
137
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:hey if we are going for crazy role bonus why not make angel ships mwd not shut down by scrams!??!?!?! so basically all angel ships would be pre nano nerf ships.
Perma kiting Cynabals, Machariels that MWD around murdering all the things Dramiels terrorizing interceptor gangs....
Hnnnggggggg -áFear The Tribes |
BadAssMcKill
The Kawaii Corporation
709
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined.
3 web loki on a single nano mwding Deimos takes you down to ~320ms
Single Web Vigi takes you down to 260
If we're using blap dreads and gatecamps as a reason why 90% webs are so incredibly broken then I'm not really seeing a strong argument
http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Jamir Von Lietuva
LDK Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:30:00 -
[108] - Quote
RIP Cyna
also nice nerf on Rail Vigilant while buffing it |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:30:00 -
[109] - Quote
The Phantasm is a broken concept imo. What is the point in having all that speed if the lasers cannot track and the shield bumps up the signature. And I notice the increase in low slots, so are we expected to armour tank this thing now?
Sansha just seems like a completely broken concept now.
And lol at all the people getting excited that the Phantasm will be travelling some ridiculous speed, completely forgetting the fact that it is not a tengu or a loki fitted with missiles, so your going to be hitting f all. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1130
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:31:00 -
[110] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Michael Harari wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined. 3 web loki on a single nano mwding Deimos takes you down to ~320ms Single Web Vigi takes you down to 260 If we're using blap dreads and gatecamps as a reason why 90% webs are so incredibly broken then I'm not really seeing a strong argument
Single web vigilant takes you to 10% speed.
Triple web loki takes you to 12.5% speed.
You go 25% faster under 3 loki webs than with 1 vigilant web.
If the vigilant has 2 webs btw, you go 2.1% speed. |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
the relevance of frigates that aren't interceptors or very long range ewar frigates |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
716
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:34:00 -
[112] - Quote
GILA
Gallente Cruiser Bonus: 30% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints(was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)
Caldari Cruiser Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
Role Bonus: 250% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)
Slot layout: 4(-1)H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1) Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000(-188) / 2200(-125) / 2300(-190) Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .60 / 10600000 (+1000000)/ 8.78s(not sure) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 80(-320) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Signature radius: 145(-5) Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
BadAssMcKill
The Kawaii Corporation
709
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:35:00 -
[113] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:Michael Harari wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined. 3 web loki on a single nano mwding Deimos takes you down to ~320ms Single Web Vigi takes you down to 260 If we're using blap dreads and gatecamps as a reason why 90% webs are so incredibly broken then I'm not really seeing a strong argument Single web vigilant takes you to 10% speed. Triple web loki takes you to 12.5% speed. You go 25% faster under 3 loki webs than with 1 vigilant web. If the vigilant has 2 webs btw, you go 2.1% speed.
True true, however the Vigilant is only going to get max ~18km webs while the Loki gets like 47km
You also have less mids to play around with depending on the configuration less tank but more speed and more dps
But I've never really seen 90% webs are broken, sure there could be some balancing effort made but its a nice bit of flavor and makes Serpentis ships useful
http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
716
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:38:00 -
[114] - Quote
PHANTASM
Amarr Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed was (7.5%)
Caldari Cruiser Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
Slot layout: 4H(-1), 6M, 5L(+2); 3 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 890 PWG(-35), 380 CPU(-45) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2700(+266) / 2175 / 2065 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1800(+105) / 495000 (+3750) / 3.5 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 248(+84) / .62(-.06) / 965000 / 8.25s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(+10) / 25(+10) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 59km / 275 / 7 Sensor strength: 20 Signature radius: 110(-20) Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
99
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:39:00 -
[115] - Quote
Will hold my opinions until the you fix the stats on the Ashimmu, instead of the obviously copy/pasted stats from the Cruor. Bah, who am I kidding? I can't hold my opinions... I think you've made an equally bad mistake with the Ashimmu, though I will admit you've made up for it some with a few of the other stat changes. Giving it more drones/cap/targetting range and a hair more mobility is nice, losing a high for a low is interesting, but whatever I can live with that. The PG nerf is, well it's a lot. I still feel strongly that you are making a mistake with the web change, but it will be less crushing on the Ashimmu which has slightly more range on it's neuts, and it's guns so it can actually use that extra range.
All that said, the fact that you gave the Serpentis a SPEED boost while allowing it to retain that 90% web is absolutely stupid, and so unbelievably backwards. They must have good dope in Iceland. I'll say it here just like I said it in the other thread, nerf the problem ships (Serpentis,) not the other ships (Blood Raiders) that just happen to have the same bonus but aren't considered a problem. I will never understand your logic, honestly. Also the release of that devblog you were waiting for has done nothing to help either of these (blood) ships. The only effect on pirate ship rebalancing was on the Guristas line, which you seem to have done a good job on. On that subject I will say you've done well with both Guristas and Sansha, however I've noticed a trend in your threads which is, they are the ONLY ships people seem to be excited to try out. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2412
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:40:00 -
[116] - Quote
Stop crying about the serpentis ships, they were legitimately the only really unique ships left in game that didn't suck.
Oh god no not the massive herds of 90% web ships ruining the game...oh wait thats not a thing never mind stop crying about being webbed.
Awesome changes Rise Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
217
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:42:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.
I'll make sure we take another look though.
Well Currently the Vagabond is always going to be a stronger brawler (due to resists + shield boost bonus) and it still performs better than the Cynabal as a Disruptor range kiter with autocannon falloff. (Similar DPS/Projection to the Cynabal, only the Vaga offers more general improvements as listed before (Cap, sensor strength, Signature Radius MWD reduction, resist bonuses for friendly logistics etc.). The only role that the Cynabal really performed better than the Vagabond was with Artillery as the superior fitting options allowed the cynabal to fit Artillery without needing to make the same sacrifices that the Vagabond does. Which you have now removed. Honestly the current Cynabal is only really flown by people using Artillery or by people who don't have Heavy Assault Cruisers level 5.
I personally think you should probably revert the Powergrid nerfs and leave it as is. Then it's still the better option for people who want to use Artillery on a mobile platform.
What about giving the Cynabal a large drone bay (say 75m3-100m3), this would give it some synergy with the Dramiel which also has a large unbonused drone bay for a Frigate. So it would be able to increase damage output at the expense that these are un-bonused drones which can be picked off fairly easily (especially if the Cynabal is kiting at range) this would improve it as a Brawler without overlapping with the Vagabond, as the Cynabal would have higher DPS but not as tanky, and it would have the option to improve its DPS at range by using 73m5 combo or heavy drones, but this would be risky as there is a high probability that a smart target could kill them to remove damage, and they move slowly so would make the cynabal more at risk to small fast targets and potentially lower DPS vs other mobile ships. |
Naomi Anthar
315
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:42:00 -
[118] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:The Phantasm is a broken concept imo. What is the point in having all that speed if the lasers cannot track and the shield bumps up the signature. And I notice the increase in low slots, so are we expected to armour tank this thing now?
Sansha just seems like a completely broken concept now.
And lol at all the people getting excited that the Phantasm will be travelling some ridiculous speed, completely forgetting the fact that it is not a tengu or a loki fitted with missiles, so your going to be hitting f all.
Edit - Why not just balance the armour and shield of the sansha ships now, including the succubus, because if you are seriously wanting to offer people a dual option to tank, then the stats should reflect that.
You are talking like almost mwd speed that is not getting owned my scram is not godsend thing ... mkay. You can manually adjust your speed while flying ... and pilot your ship also - instead of orbiting 24/7. It helps to hit stuff, trust me. But you can also just move fast as hell to catch something you want to catch or disengage if you have to. You are really think it's nothing ? Cmon.
Nah 2 more lows are good stuff - you can armor tank it now. But sure you are not forced to do so. 6 mids are still 6 mids - that is a lot on cruiser. If people shield tank cruisers with 3 or 4 mids - i'm sure you can still shield tank ship with 6 mids.
Look at lows as place where you can get nanos, heat sinks, tracking enhancers (for your problem to hit the stuff - it also does work better on phantasm due to hull tracking bonus).
Phantasm is strong, period - about the fking time ;). |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
253
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:43:00 -
[119] - Quote
Where's Dinsdale, this is yet another DEVASTATION of sentry drones by the null-sec mafia.
In seriousness though, the PG amounts on Cynabal and Gila are worrying me a lot.
Gila used to completely forgo any missiles since it was focused on the sentry range and lack of CPU after drone module. While these super-bonused mediums do a lot of damage, the new Gila gets a very strong missile DPS bonus, but sort of lacks the powergrid to do anything with that. I have to EFT it up a bit but it just seems pretty awkward.
On Cynabal as others have stated already it's pretty disappointing since the ship wasn't terribly strong before. It also basically removes the kiting arty cynabal, a niche role for the ship which I really enjoyed. With the other fast cruisers (namely vagabond) as strong as they are, it's hard for me to justify this nerf. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:44:00 -
[120] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Stop crying about the serpentis ships, they were legitimately the only really unique ships left in game that didn't suck.
Oh god no not the massive herds of 90% web ships ruining the game...oh wait thats not a thing never mind stop crying about being webbed.
Awesome changes Rise
so its ovepoweredness is determined by how many people use it? |
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