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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
318
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:42:00 -
[241] - Quote
I second the apparent consensus in this thread that Cynabal nerf is unnecessary. (See comments re: Vagabond, etc.) It's not OP like it once was.
Also, go easy (if anything) on the Machariel when you post its "re-balance". The TE nerf was more than enough on it. |
Jarlaxle Naskingar
Trifecta Corporation Dishonored.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:43:00 -
[242] - Quote
Could we just get a functional log out to character selection screen before we worry about anything else. Which should have been unveiled right when you allowed dual character training. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
721
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:44:00 -
[243] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Harvey James wrote:the rattlesnake won't have a sentry bonus and a heavy bonus .. it will be heavies only along with its missile damage bonus Not saying it won't happen, but how do you know it will? Sentries are the same band as heavies which removes the issue of the band limits which are necessary for balancing the current line of bonuses.
cos its clear in the OP they don't want guristas using sentries and overlapping with gallente droneboats.. plus if they were going to use sentries they would have allowed the gila too use them .... they are brawlers now like they were always supposed to be. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1068
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:45:00 -
[244] - Quote
Iorga Eeta wrote:Aglais wrote: Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.
Because it would be a unique modifier and it would only apply to medium ewar drones like the rest of the cruiser's drone bonuses. Are there any other ships in the game that give a bonus to ewar and combat utility drones? Besides ECM drones, do the ewar and combat utility drones ever get used? I think the TP drones get used sometimes. Stacking effects really make the other drones worthless. And here, you have a ship that could actually use those type of drones effectively without the usual stack penalties. Would still make a rather useless bonus IMHO. You have better dedicated ewar platforms for the actual ewar work and actually using the gila for that purpose defangs the ship in terms of damage output. Doesn't seem like a decent trade that would justify people flying it that way.
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Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
126
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:45:00 -
[245] - Quote
I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damge buff the phantasm is getting. Love it love it. <3 |
Xavier Azabu
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:46:00 -
[246] - Quote
Most of these changes are interesting but two are particularly pointless and will simply make us fly expensive pirate frigates less - and instead we will fly T1s and AHACs which have more bang or survivability for the isk.
CCP Rise wrote:
...
========================================================================================
VIGILANT
Gallente Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness
Role Bonus: 75% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 1050 PWG(-150), 360 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2175 / 2500(+175) / 2625 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1545 / 490000 (-1250) / 3.15 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 242(+36) / .48 / 9830000 / 6.54s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 49km(+14km) / 300 / 7 Sensor strength: 20 Signature radius: 130
The Vigilant's main role lately is that of an incursion ship or heavy gate tackler that can be used with neutron blasters. But it is so expensive that it is rarely used in small gang pvp. Instead one can purchase a much less expensive Talos, Thorax, Deimos, Bruitx, etc. and other ships are used for webbing like the Rapier, I was hoping to see a buff to the vigilant that would make its cost make sense when compared to these other ships. This set of changes to powergrid, velocity, and targeting range seems to suggest the use of medium rails or ions. But it reduces the value of the Vigilant. Please reconsider the powergrid nerf and buff the Vigilant's tank even further. Or please make it more unique - right now it is like a Deimos that is difficult to fit.
Quote: CYNABAL
Gallente Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Role Bonus: 25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 820 PWG(-280), 335 CPU(-15) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2330 / 2300(-25) / 2065 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1415 / 490000(-1250) / 2.88 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 263(+6) / .45(-.0045) / 9047000(+200000) / 5.64s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47km(+2km) / 390(-33) / 7 Sensor strength: 18(+2) Signature radius: 115(+5)
Look forward to hearing from you o/
I need to protest this change to the Cynabal. The Arty Cynabal - is sort of an iconic ship to a lot of us nullsec roamers like the Rifter, the Thorax, the Apoc etc.,... It's one of those ships that has its role and really doesn't need to be messed with. As it was it still had its uses and was only starting to be overshadowed by buffed T1s and HACs (like the Muninn). With this change to powergrid the Cynabal will no longer be the ship to roam in that it has been. The Cynabal will be overshadowed by the Muninn, Cane, SFI, Vagabond, and even Rupture with this change. Please reconsider this change. Most of us don't want this.
Otherwise the Gila, Ashimmu, and Phantasm changes are cool and give them all weird roles. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1068
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:49:00 -
[247] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Harvey James wrote:the rattlesnake won't have a sentry bonus and a heavy bonus .. it will be heavies only along with its missile damage bonus Not saying it won't happen, but how do you know it will? Sentries are the same band as heavies which removes the issue of the band limits which are necessary for balancing the current line of bonuses. cos its clear in the OP they don't want guristas using sentries and overlapping with gallente droneboats.. plus if they were going to use sentries they would have allowed the gila too use them .... they are brawlers now like they were always supposed to be. No, what's clear is the don't want the Gila overlapping the ishtar. We have yet to see if that holds true to the RS and Domi. Considering they wanted it to concentrate on meduim drones, not large types, it would have been awkward at best to shoehorn sentries in. It would have literally made no sense. Also high EHP alone does not a brawler make so I'm not sure where the idea they were always meant to be brawlers comes from.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1068
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:51:00 -
[248] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damage buff the phantasm is getting. It didn't drop any guns. Love it love it. <3 The damage was not nerfed, look at the newly enhanced role bonus. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:57:00 -
[249] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: well really it seems odd that the dramiel has the tracking bonus aswell as a falloff bonus like the wolf.. both bonuses combined are a little OP really..
Because you see these ships out in such abundance. |
Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys AAA Citizens
64
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:57:00 -
[250] - Quote
Well the missile bonus from gallente cruisers on the gila seems odd. I woulda had prefered something like MWD bonus for the drones. |
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Iorga Eeta
Hekatonkheires Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:01:00 -
[251] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Would still make a rather useless bonus IMHO. You have better dedicated ewar platforms for the actual ewar work and actually using the gila for that purpose defangs the ship in terms of damage output. Doesn't seem like a decent trade that would justify people flying it that way.
With the bandwidth and the drone bay reductions, the Gila loses it's ability to carry a flight of ECM drones, which is a pretty standard thing for drone ships to carry. That said, maybe that's alright. I was thinking that if anyone should have amped up combat utility and ewar drones, it should be the Guristas.
With the release of the pirate novice ships a while ago, CCP hinted at pirates being a playable faction. Maybe some future Gurista's ewar ship should have that sort of bonus. There aren't any ships that offer a bonus for those types of drones, so it would be nice if something did. |
darkness reins
Bearz Inc. Sicarius Draconis
3
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:05:00 -
[252] - Quote
Jarlaxle Naskingar wrote:Could we just get a functional log out to character selection screen before we worry about anything else. Which should have been unveiled right when you allowed dual character training.
totally agree would make life a lot easier when you have 3 toons on one account
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
191
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:10:00 -
[253] - Quote
Would like to see the Cynabal get some optimal range bonuses over tracking or falloff. Gear it towards Arty :)
Is it Guristas that are utter gits with ECM in missions? Imagine some sort of ECM drone bonus would be quite fitting if so. Although I think ECM drones need a complete rebalance as they are at the moment. |
Anno Purake
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:17:00 -
[254] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.
I'll make sure we take another look though.
I'm glad to hear this, because frankly the nerf is not required at all. I imagine that the Angel cartel ships are popular because they function well. Instead of buffing the others at the same time you nerf the Cynabal (relegating it to the scrap heap), consider using it as a baseline and brining the other ships up to par. |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
220
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:17:00 -
[255] - Quote
Love the drone bonus of the Gila, combined with the separation of mediums and lights in skills. Those are going to be some mean mediums, and I'm guessing the rattlesnake is going to end up with a couple of mighty heavy drones too X |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2575
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 23:18:00 -
[256] - Quote
When are these changes going on Sisi?
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2420
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:24:00 -
[257] - Quote
I kinda praised the thread a little too soon i guess, I hadn't noticed the fairly massive reductions in grid to the serpentis and angel ship.
Lets not be silly nobody was running around screaming about how much grid the vigilant had, it was a ship that was tight to fit for armor or easy to fit for shields, you've effectively just curb stomped its ability to fit its racially native armor tank.
Don't do that.
The Cynabal I'm more indifferent about, I feel its had a relative ease of fitting that few ships ever got, however since a Cynaball fit with a cloak has a higher scan res than a vaga without a cloak I find it odd that you went after its Power Grid. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2575
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:26:00 -
[258] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:Well the missile bonus from gallente cruisers on the gila seems odd. I woulda had prefered something like MWD bonus for the drones.
By my calculations, 2 Hammerheads will have a top speed of 2520 m/s , when the 20% speed buff is factored in, with damage of 187.2 for each drone. These things will still be way way too slow to justify putting all that damage into 2 drones. One get popped by the target, and a huge chunk of the damage of the ship is gone.
As as I said earlier, the ship is utterly useless in an PvE environment, since the AI will simply web the drones and eat in them in 18 seconds instead of 3.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Naomi Anthar
317
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:31:00 -
[259] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:I kinda praised the thread a little too soon i guess, I hadn't noticed the fairly massive reductions in grid to the serpentis and angel ship.
Lets not be silly nobody was running around screaming about how much grid the vigilant had, it was a ship that was tight to fit for armor or easy to fit for shields, you've effectively just curb stomped its ability to fit its racially native armor tank.
Don't do that.
The Cynabal I'm more indifferent about, I feel its had a relative ease of fitting that few ships ever got, however since a Cynaball fit with a cloak has a higher scan res than a vaga without a cloak I find it odd that you went after its Power Grid.
Actually i disagree completly - complelty ******** dps of Vigilant combined with actually VERY good tank + 2x 90% webs was way over top. Maybe time to make decision - dps or tank ... because this ship had too much going for it. Fitting neutrons 24/7 without losing any utility or tank was rather disgusting on this ship.
If vigilants will end up flying with 1600plate again and 2x 90% webs mwding around ... at least i hope they will do this with electrons.
On the other hand Cynabal actually had only speed/agility and fittings making it so good boat. Now you can forget about silly but funny concept of Arty Cyna. |
gawrshmapooo
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
39
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:32:00 -
[260] - Quote
Capqu wrote:phantasm is going to be the best ahac ever made
Gÿ+~The Phantasm: Being a better AHAC than your actual AHAC~Gÿ+
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stoicfaux
4418
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:52:00 -
[261] - Quote
This... is not looking good for the Rattlesnake.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4482
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:55:00 -
[262] - Quote
Ok, seriously, what is with the power grid nerfs? These aren't just here and there either, but 150 or more. I mean, was the Vigilant or the Ashimuu or the Cynabal really so spoiled for grid as all that?
Give the Ashimuu back it's third utility highslot. If you're serious about making it viable for NOS, then don't make me sacrifice a turret to use 3 of them. The ship's dps sucks badly enough as it is.
And unfuck the Cynabal, I guarantee you that it's use will drop off the map with the proposed stats.
Oh, and people? Quit freaking crying about bonused webs. You're worse than carebears, whining for nerfs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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gawrshmapooo
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
39
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:58:00 -
[263] - Quote
Mr. Rise,
Please reconsider the PG decrease on the Vigilant.
Thank you |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1163
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:04:00 -
[264] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:This... is not looking good for the Rattlesnake.
I'm pretty confident it'll get the bonus to sentries too. The Domi will have the niche of flexibility, with the range and tracking bonuses and the ability to use bonused light drones, while the Rattler will go down the pure DPS route. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2425
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:07:00 -
[265] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:I kinda praised the thread a little too soon i guess, I hadn't noticed the fairly massive reductions in grid to the serpentis and angel ship.
Lets not be silly nobody was running around screaming about how much grid the vigilant had, it was a ship that was tight to fit for armor or easy to fit for shields, you've effectively just curb stomped its ability to fit its racially native armor tank.
Don't do that.
The Cynabal I'm more indifferent about, I feel its had a relative ease of fitting that few ships ever got, however since a Cynaball fit with a cloak has a higher scan res than a vaga without a cloak I find it odd that you went after its Power Grid. Actually i disagree completly - complelty ******** dps of Vigilant combined with actually VERY good tank + 2x 90% webs was way over top. Maybe time to make decision - dps or tank ... because this ship had too much going for it. Fitting neutrons 24/7 without losing any utility or tank was rather disgusting on this ship. If vigilants will end up flying with 1600plate again and 2x 90% webs mwding around ... at least i hope they will do this with electrons. On the other hand Cynabal actually had only speed/agility and fittings making it so good boat. Now you can forget about silly but funny concept of Arty Cyna. Edit i just have open eft with fit of "balanced" Vigilant: few numbers to throw in : 999 dps with void oh - no implants just all V. YES ALMOST 1000 dps - with hammerheads - because why not with 2x 90% webs. With hobs its still 939 dps ... if you fancy to have also flight of hornets 300, 50,626 ehp 1489 cold speed mwd 2x 90% webs I'm all for fun and unique AND powerful pirate ships. But that one was about to be cut a bit. Glad it happend. For me it did not get enough nerfs.
Yea, how dare it have the hit points of a tank fit gang bonused recon and or beef fit maller while doing damage.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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stoicfaux
4419
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:17:00 -
[266] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:stoicfaux wrote:This... is not looking good for the Rattlesnake.
I'm pretty confident it'll get the bonus to sentries too. The Domi will have the niche of flexibility, with the range and tracking bonuses and the ability to use bonused light drones, while the Rattler will go down the pure DPS route. I disagree about the sentries. Two bonused heavies and the missile velocity bonus swapped to a kin/therm damage means the Rattlesnake is going down the road of "short" range brawler. (Short as in greatly reduced damage projection.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Naomi Anthar
319
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:18:00 -
[267] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:I kinda praised the thread a little too soon i guess, I hadn't noticed the fairly massive reductions in grid to the serpentis and angel ship.
Lets not be silly nobody was running around screaming about how much grid the vigilant had, it was a ship that was tight to fit for armor or easy to fit for shields, you've effectively just curb stomped its ability to fit its racially native armor tank.
Don't do that.
The Cynabal I'm more indifferent about, I feel its had a relative ease of fitting that few ships ever got, however since a Cynaball fit with a cloak has a higher scan res than a vaga without a cloak I find it odd that you went after its Power Grid. Actually i disagree completly - complelty ******** dps of Vigilant combined with actually VERY good tank + 2x 90% webs was way over top. Maybe time to make decision - dps or tank ... because this ship had too much going for it. Fitting neutrons 24/7 without losing any utility or tank was rather disgusting on this ship. If vigilants will end up flying with 1600plate again and 2x 90% webs mwding around ... at least i hope they will do this with electrons. On the other hand Cynabal actually had only speed/agility and fittings making it so good boat. Now you can forget about silly but funny concept of Arty Cyna. Edit i just have open eft with fit of "balanced" Vigilant: few numbers to throw in : 999 dps with void oh - no implants just all V. YES ALMOST 1000 dps - with hammerheads - because why not with 2x 90% webs. With hobs its still 939 dps ... if you fancy to have also flight of hornets 300, 50,626 ehp 1489 cold speed mwd 2x 90% webs I'm all for fun and unique AND powerful pirate ships. But that one was about to be cut a bit. Glad it happend. For me it did not get enough nerfs. Yea, how dare it have the hit points of a tank fit gang bonused recon and or beef fit maller while doing damage.
"while doing BATTLESHIP DAMAGE with damage application of frigate" fix it for you. Also it is faster than said maller , does better with cap problems. Also it does recon ship job better than recon ship at short ranges.
Yea, how it dares ...
And on top of that - it is going to be faster now , with more lock range - you just downgrade guns. So you will still do Battleship dps - but a bit less. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2425
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:25:00 -
[268] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:
"while doing BATTLESHIP DAMAGE with damage application of frigate" fix it for you. Also it is faster than said maller , does better with cap problems. Also it does recon ship job better than recon ship at short ranges.
Yea, how it dares ...
Its damage is on par with things like the Thorax (830 DPS) and the Vexor (1k dps), stop being so dramatic
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Naomi Anthar
319
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:30:00 -
[269] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:
"while doing BATTLESHIP DAMAGE with damage application of frigate" fix it for you. Also it is faster than said maller , does better with cap problems. Also it does recon ship job better than recon ship at short ranges.
Yea, how it dares ...
Its damage is on par with things like the Thorax (830 DPS) and the Vexor (1k dps), stop being so dramatic
200 more dps over said thorax ... is still noticeable difference and Vexor dps ... not sure from what hole you got the numbers. But i bet this hole start with "A" letter. Either way those ships will have close to 0 tank while doing this dps, and completly 0 utility ... yeah and not even close to being apply this dps so easily.
I'm not dramatic - you can keep your vigilant if you ask me. But by saying it is so nerfed by the changes is quiet silly.
Just because you will have to fit ions now ? Still its going to be outstanding and well performing ship. Now also with more speed and lockrange for rail retardness. |
Keith Planck
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
723
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:40:00 -
[270] - Quote
Change the Cyn to a rapid light reload time bonus ship.
I am seriously going to miss sentries on the gila :< aka Pony Lord Planck |
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