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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2144
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'll just leave this here: Good tips for ratting in hostile space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k86kx8rR5I |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2101
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Cari Cullejen wrote:If I die because i chose to take the risk of attempting to make isk in a system with a afk cloaker am I bad? If so why? I wouldn't say it means your bad. It's just means in this particular case, you didn't manage the risk properly. Not the end of the World. Some corps will kick you for this too. Especially if you drop bling. Why? You've made you're corp look stupid but more importantly you've given them a reason to hang around for more kills.
Also apologies for the bittervettiness, it's contagious btw. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:Is there as much of a risk to the cloaker as there is to the ratter? If so, how? If not why should the risk not be even? While they are cloaked, there's almost zero risk to the cloaker.
The level of risk to you while they are cloaked is situation dependent, but who ever said risk in the game should be equal?
It's different for different people at different times. If your game is to destroy another pilots ship, then going into that with equal risk is not smart. Stack the deck as much as possible.
If your game is not to kill others but protect yourself, then do what you can and are prepared to do to increase your own odds. . -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1628
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think I speak for everyone when I say: Its about time someone stood up and made a topic about this!
For too long have we collectively been too scared to start a discussion about this subject! Fearfull that we might be rejected by our peers!
OP is a hero! BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
Cari Cullejen
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say: Its about time someone stood up and made a topic about this!
For too long have we collectively been too scared to start a discussion about this subject! Fearfull that we might be rejected by our peers!
OP is a hero!
not sure if trolling or not What are you looking for here? Read the post! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5125
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It's not about being afraid it's about being smart. You don't PvE in a PvE ship in a system with nuets. If you came to the forums after you're ship was hot dropped you'd be made fun off for operating in a system with a nuet.
EvE is primarily about risk management and risk vs reward and operating in a cloaked system is pretty stupid given the risk.
If EVE history is any indication, once everyone starts doing it, it will get nerfed. Remember ghost training and nano HACs for example. CCP was fine with them . But when everyone started doing it...
So if you really want to see a change, you should be encouraging it, as counter intuitive as that seems.
And once again you change your look. I just want to give you a big hug when I look at your slightly sad little waifish expression now.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1628
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:KuroVolt wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say: Its about time someone stood up and made a topic about this!
For too long have we collectively been too scared to start a discussion about this subject! Fearfull that we might be rejected by our peers!
OP is a hero! not sure if trolling or not
Oh no believe me, I was definitely trolling. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
Cari Cullejen
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:
Oh no believe me, I was definitely trolling.
What do you receive from trolling?
What are you looking for here? Read the post! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2103
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
In a pure cloaker situation the risk is reduced. When I had my little war against Tribal band I ended about 40 attacks with 32 kills, 2 losses, the rest I had to run or they ran.
One losses was hot drop trap, the other was a bait Geddon.
In a cloaky cyno situation, the risk is mitigated to almost nil. The cloaker has 100% of the intel in local, including d-scan and being able to observe the undock, gate jumps etc. The target has only the knowledge that a nuet has been in local for a period of time. The cloaker can decloak, fit for max tank and tackle safe in the knowledge that in a second they'll have reps and target will be jammed, and exploding.
If you do it right it's very unlikely you'll get counter dropped (time to kill, target selection, range selection etc). Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4486
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: If you do it right it's very unlikely you'll get counter dropped (time to kill, target selection, range selection etc).
That almost entirely relies on them doing it wrong, not you doing it right. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1633
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:KuroVolt wrote:
Oh no believe me, I was definitely trolling.
What do you receive from trolling?
It fills the gaping hole in my chest, just for a split second it replaces that emptyness that I have to feel day in and day out with this small spark...for just for that split second...Im space-important... And when I get a like..I think maybe, JUST MAYBE...someone out there does love me.
But also cause I was bored and thought of something witty to say. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2104
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: If you do it right it's very unlikely you'll get counter dropped (time to kill, target selection, range selection etc).
That almost entirely relies on them doing it wrong, not you doing it right. The advantage will always be to the attacking side in hot drops. Given you can be AFK for as long as you like, hours, days, weeks, even months you will always have the advantage of surprise. Your target will always be at a disadvantage (1 vs many), will likely die in seconds, and you have the ability to arrive and leave by magic portal that cannot be intercepted.
How does it rely on the target doing it wrong? Apart from having allies formed up and ready to counter drop 23/7 or ready in local (in which case the drop likely won't happen or more gank will be added) there is nothing the target can do. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:No such thing as a new opinion anymore, just rehash of the same old opinions by new people.
Like me for example, I have no problem with people that want to AFK cloak.
I'm not scared of a cloaked ship nor any threat they pose if I'm in space. If someone wants to do it, no problem. More power to them. you say that now... untill they kill you An afk player can't kill anyone. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1338
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Many people ask the question: What counters afk cloaking?
Few ask the question: What does afk cloaking counter?
If you enter a nullbear system, excluding the rare fight, the nullbears will dock up/pos up. One of three things will then happen:
1) You stay there bored while the nullbears are afk from eve playing BF4. Effectively you loose, they're having fun and you aren't.
2) You leave the system, the nullbears get what they want. Effectively the nullbears win.
3) You afk cloak. They're afk in station/pos. You're afk in space. Stalemate. While not an ideal situation for either party, it is "balanced" in that both the defender and the attacker reap what they sow: nothingness.
Edit: I would also like to point out that removing local would fix all of the above "problems" in one swift sroke. |
PrettyMuch Always Right
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Everyone that complains about AFK cloaking will stop complaining the moment they want sweet revenge on someone.
Confirming AFK cloaking in ratter systems of alliances that talk too much smack is a viable tactic and completely deserved. |
Cari Cullejen
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Many people ask the question: What counters afk cloaking?
Few ask the question: What does afk cloaking counter?
If you enter a nullbear system, excluding the rare fight, the nullbears will dock up/pos up. One of three things will then happen:
1) You stay there bored while the nullbears are afk from eve playing BF4. Effectively you loose, they're having fun and you aren't.
2) You leave the system, the nullbears get what they want. Effectively the nullbears win.
3) You afk cloak. They're afk in station/pos. You're afk in space. Stalemate. While not an ideal situation for either party, it is "balanced" in that both the defender and the attacker reap what they sow: nothingness.
Edit: I would also like to point out that removing local would fix all of the above "problems" in one swift sroke.
When the AFK cloakers only purpose is to AFK cloak can you still call it a stalemate? It's not like they would be off doing anything else when they're specifically created to AFK cloak.
What are you looking for here? Read the post! |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1338
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 01:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote: When the AFK cloakers only purpose is to AFK cloak can you still call it a stalemate? It's not like they would be off doing anything else when they're specifically created to AFK cloak.
I don't know anyone in game who afk cloaks just to be an afk cloaker. Not saying they don't exist, but I've never met one. You afk cloak to get fights/kills, plain and simple. Consider this: A ship with nothing but a cloak fitted is afk in your system. It has no cynos, no weapons. Is it a significant threat? No.
You aren't afraid of the guy looking to afk. You're afraid of the guy looking for kills.
So it is very much a stalemate. The attacker isn't getting any kills, he has to afk or leave. The defender isn't making any isk. He has to afk, leave, or fight. But in this case the defender is the one calling the shots. If he stays docked up that's the end of it, he will never loose. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2106
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 02:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Cari Cullejen wrote: When the AFK cloakers only purpose is to AFK cloak can you still call it a stalemate? It's not like they would be off doing anything else when they're specifically created to AFK cloak.
I don't know anyone in game who afk cloaks just to be an afk cloaker. Not saying they don't exist, but I've never met one. You afk cloak to get fights/kills, plain and simple. Consider this: A ship with nothing but a cloak fitted is afk in your system. It has no cynos, no weapons. Is it a significant threat? No. You aren't afraid of the guy looking to afk. You're afraid of the guy looking for kills. So it is very much a stalemate. The attacker isn't getting any kills, he has to afk or leave. The defender isn't making any isk. He has to afk, leave, or fight. But in this case the defender is the one calling the shots. If he stays docked up that's the end of it, he will never loose. There are lots of them. We have between 2 to 7 constantly around hub-zero. I had to petition one that was following me from system to system over a 3 week period, it made the mistake of admitting in local it was there to specifically harass me. Still there but just doesn't follow me anymore.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3385
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 03:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:No such thing as a new opinion anymore, just rehash of the same old opinions by new people.
Like me for example, I have no problem with people that want to AFK cloak.
I'm not scared of a cloaked ship nor any threat they pose if I'm in space. If someone wants to do it, no problem. More power to them. you say that now... untill they kill you Cloaked ships don't bother me. I've never been attacked by a cloaked ship.
I have only been attacked by ships that uncloaked. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1338
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 03:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: I don't know anyone in game who afk cloaks just to be an afk cloaker. Not saying they don't exist, but I've never met one. You afk cloak to get fights/kills, plain and simple. Consider this: A ship with nothing but a cloak fitted is afk in your system. It has no cynos, no weapons. Is it a significant threat? No.
You aren't afraid of the guy looking to afk. You're afraid of the guy looking for kills.
So it is very much a stalemate. The attacker isn't getting any kills, he has to afk or leave. The defender isn't making any isk. He has to afk, leave, or fight. But in this case the defender is the one calling the shots. If he stays docked up that's the end of it, he will never loose.
There are lots of them. We have between 2 to 7 constantly around hub-zero. I had to petition one that was following me from system to system over a 3 week period, it made the mistake of admitting in local it was there to specifically harass me. Still there but just doesn't follow me anymore. So if all they do is follow you (and never attack in pursuit of a juicy kill), why does that bother you?
If I had someone shadow me in game for 3 weeks and never actually do anything, I honestly wouldn't mind. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4493
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 03:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: So if all they do is follow you (and never attack in pursuit of a juicy kill), why does that bother you?
If I had someone shadow me in game for 3 weeks and never actually do anything, I honestly wouldn't mind.
Because apparently other people shouldn't have intel. IZ is like that. He petitioned me once for calling him a liar when he stated that anyone could make an 800 dps catalyst for a few million isk, with less than a month's skillpoints.
But never let facts get in the way of talking points, am I right?
Anyway, to answer your other question, it used to be a thing whereby some alliances would pay pilots to AFK cloak on other people's renters. Some of them would give you a secondary intel channel you could use to summon up blackops if you had a juicy killmail on the line, carriers and the like. I used to do that myself, now and then. My favorite thing was talking to mine, I would say random things to them so they would realize I was on grid, then they'd dock up and bail out. Never did get a capital killmail though. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2117
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 03:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: I don't know anyone in game who afk cloaks just to be an afk cloaker. Not saying they don't exist, but I've never met one. You afk cloak to get fights/kills, plain and simple. Consider this: A ship with nothing but a cloak fitted is afk in your system. It has no cynos, no weapons. Is it a significant threat? No.
You aren't afraid of the guy looking to afk. You're afraid of the guy looking for kills.
So it is very much a stalemate. The attacker isn't getting any kills, he has to afk or leave. The defender isn't making any isk. He has to afk, leave, or fight. But in this case the defender is the one calling the shots. If he stays docked up that's the end of it, he will never loose.
There are lots of them. We have between 2 to 7 constantly around hub-zero. I had to petition one that was following me from system to system over a 3 week period, it made the mistake of admitting in local it was there to specifically harass me. Still there but just doesn't follow me anymore. So if all they do is follow you (and never attack in pursuit of a juicy kill), why does that bother you? If I had someone shadow me in game for 3 weeks and never actually do anything, I honestly wouldn't mind. Because it's considered in game harassment and it's weird. If someone is sitting at their PC following a player around for weeks they're obviously a bit mentally imbalanced. Why would someone be that obsessed. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2117
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 03:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: So if all they do is follow you (and never attack in pursuit of a juicy kill), why does that bother you?
If I had someone shadow me in game for 3 weeks and never actually do anything, I honestly wouldn't mind.
Because apparently other people shouldn't have intel. IZ is like that. He petitioned me once for calling him a liar when he stated that anyone could make an 800 dps catalyst for a few million isk, with less than a month's skillpoints. But never let facts get in the way of talking points, am I right? Anyway, to answer your other question, it used to be a thing whereby some alliances would pay pilots to AFK cloak on other people's renters. Some of them would give you a secondary intel channel you could use to summon up blackops if you had a juicy killmail on the line, carriers and the like. I used to do that myself, now and then. My favorite thing was talking to mine, I would say random things to them so they would realize I was on grid, then they'd dock up and bail out. Never did get a capital killmail though. Lol. Apart from that one person I have never petition anyone in game. Maybe you mean reported on forums. I reported you for continuously making personal attacks after I told you to stop. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4496
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 03:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: So if all they do is follow you (and never attack in pursuit of a juicy kill), why does that bother you?
If I had someone shadow me in game for 3 weeks and never actually do anything, I honestly wouldn't mind.
Because apparently other people shouldn't have intel. IZ is like that. He petitioned me once for calling him a liar when he stated that anyone could make an 800 dps catalyst for a few million isk, with less than a month's skillpoints. But never let facts get in the way of talking points, am I right? Anyway, to answer your other question, it used to be a thing whereby some alliances would pay pilots to AFK cloak on other people's renters. Some of them would give you a secondary intel channel you could use to summon up blackops if you had a juicy killmail on the line, carriers and the like. I used to do that myself, now and then. My favorite thing was talking to mine, I would say random things to them so they would realize I was on grid, then they'd dock up and bail out. Never did get a capital killmail though. Lol. Apart from that one person I have never petition anyone in game. Maybe you mean reported on forums. I reported you for continuously making personal attacks after I told you to stop.
If you'd just stop telling outright lies, people would stop calling you a liar. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4878
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 04:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:No such thing as a new opinion anymore, just rehash of the same old opinions by new people.
Like me for example, I have no problem with people that want to AFK cloak.
I'm not scared of a cloaked ship nor any threat they pose if I'm in space. If someone wants to do it, no problem. More power to them. you say that now... untill they kill you
Show me a single instance of a cloaked AFK player blowing up a ship. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1070
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 04:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:When the AFK cloakers only purpose is to AFK cloak can you still call it a stalemate? It's not like they would be off doing anything else when they're specifically created to AFK cloak.
If they are truly AFK, the only limit to your gameplay is your own level of paranoia.
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Rastafarian God
62
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 05:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
I cant speak to cyno's since I dont use them. My experience with them is watching carriers haul stuff through lowsec jumping to or from stations. I fly right up to them, compliment them on the shiny and ask to let me know when they are leaving so I can watch the jump animation. So if cynos are overpowered I'll have to take your word for it...
Although when it comes to cloaks, I love those things. Almost all my solo PVP is T2 cloaky now. People only complain about cloaks because they make them paranoid. I want CCP to make them stronger. Remove the cloaked ships from local and make it so you have to bump something to be decloaked. That way no more paranoia from people and I can have some real fun.
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
965
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 06:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:Do you frown upon/condone AFK cloaking?
Why/Why not?
My signature.
Follow the link and be enlightened. Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
22
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Posted - 2014.04.08 06:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ok...so this whole topic is REALLY interesting to me as a new player. I went out and google'd "AFK cloaking EVE" and learned a little bit about this. Let me see if I understand it correctly:
Some guy sits in a lowsec system cloaked, with a ship capable of a cynosure field. He doesn't do anything for hours or days, just monitors the system using a combination of local chat, Dscan, and maybe probes. And if someone shows up that the cloaked ship doesn't like(everyone), the cloaked ship scans down the enemy, warps in, and drop a field to summon up an entire fleet of friends to attack. Also known as 'hot dropping' ?
So....as a dirty unwashed noob who hasn't ever set foot in lowsec at all, do I even need to worry about this kind of stuff? I assume that the moment I set foot in lowsec I'll be attacked, and that anyone who's not a friend of mine is an enemy. What kind of stuff should I do to avoid getting insta-gibbed the second I enter lowsec, or shoud I just stay out..? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1070
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 07:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:So....as a dirty unwashed noob who hasn't ever set foot in lowsec at all, do I even need to worry about this kind of stuff? I assume that the moment I set foot in lowsec I'll be attacked, and that anyone who's not a friend of mine is an enemy. What kind of stuff should I do to avoid getting insta-gibbed the second I enter lowsec, or shoud I just stay out..? If you operate solely within highsec, you don't generally need to worry about cloaked ships and never have to worry about a cyno.
If you Corp is at war, war targets can sit in system cloaked in order to disrupt your gameplay, because they show in local to you as a war target, but you won't be able to find them unless they want you to. War targets are really the only concern cloaked ships could present to you in highsec.
Gankers use them to provide warp in points for ganks, but in general you'll never know if that is happening to you, so it's little to be concerned about in terms of protecting yourself from a gank. There are other tactics for that.
When you eventually take a step into lowsec, you would be unlucky to be attacked immediately. It requires a lot more caution and smarts than highsec, but it's really not as dangerous as many people think. . -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
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