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Richard Masseri
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
3
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Posted - 2014.04.09 14:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
How would you make a Fleet using only Incursus and Catalyst's fits.
Idea's so far.
- Incursus fits armour repair drones and reps rail and blaster fit Catalysts.
- Incursus fits armour repairers and combat drones.
- Catalyst fits armour repairer acts as logistics.
This would be a fleet size of 5 +
Helpful advice please, sadly the ship restrictions are mandatory. |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
28
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Posted - 2014.04.09 14:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
what's the purpose of the fleet, is it for ganking, high-sec, low-sec, null?
need some more info I think. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
7
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Posted - 2014.04.09 14:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Don't try to fit logi on non-logi ships, it won't do enough to keep paper thin catalysts up. Incursus can run with local rep, but in a fleet fight it is only a matter of time. Just run with gank catalysts and local rep Incursus. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
432
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
If we throw min-maxing out of the window it comes down to this: What do you want to do? Combat range/target etc? |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
561
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you were to use any t1-frig/dessi besides a dedicated t1-logi as logi, make sure it is a crucifier or tristan, cause drones. Also, the reprange goes down to around 5km, which is problematic for remote armor repair especially.
If your target were to look really wonky and engageable, yet you want a sick tank amongst your mates, try this below Gåô
Quote:[Imicus, #swagfleet]
Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I Small F-RX Prototype Capacitor Boost, Navy Cap Booster 200
Pithi C-Type Small Remote Shield Booster Pithi C-Type Small Remote Shield Booster 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Hobgoblin II x4 Warrior II x4
making for 125dps each at variable ranges, goes slightly over 1km/s, projecting reps to another imicus yields ~90ehp/s. So take 5 of them and the next one tanks 5 condors until the crew went out of cap charges. Light Drones also travel quickly and don't suffer from tracking issues that much. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
Gregor Parud
431
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Posted - 2014.04.09 16:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Doing RR in small&fast ships like this is nigh impossible, partly because you so easily move out of range from eachother, partly because there's not enough EHP on them to make it realistically viable and mostly because the cap issues will be hilarious (especially since the Cata only has 2 midslots).
It would require way too much teamwork and organisation for what it, arguably, gives you back. |
Richard Masseri
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 01:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks to all who have so far contributed.
I feel that maybe I should add this will be a mainly PVE fleet however their is a chance it could run into PvP scenarios. This is not a ganking fleet.(check out my corporation's ROE)
Points to clarify Catalyst and incursus are the only ships I will be able to use this sadly is just one limitation that has to stand, though you may not understand this I feel unable to divulge any further reasoning on this point.
So ok Incursus carry a rep drone, bad or good. As I can see from the comments logi style cat, incursus fits are definitely not a popular idea. |
Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
202
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Correct my if I'm wrong, but unless in W-space (which I know nothing about) you'll be much better off just fitting for local active tank appropriate for the rats you are facing.
Really though, in the vast majority of PVE cases a cruiser or two would vastly out perform a mob of destroyers. The tank possible on them is just too low given the very insignificant extra training time required. |
Richard Masseri
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
3
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Posted - 2014.04.10 08:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Correct my if I'm wrong, but unless in W-space (which I know nothing about) you'll be much better off just fitting for local active tank appropriate for the rats you are facing.
Really though, in the vast majority of PVE cases a cruiser or two would vastly out perform a mob of destroyers. The tank possible on them is just too low given the very insignificant extra training time required.
Yeah that is generally true, but as mentioned it is not an option, in this case, thanks anyway for your help. |
xPredat0rz
Grey Templars Fidelas Constans
90
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Posted - 2014.04.10 08:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your role play wont work as well. You could use the galente logi boat and shoe horn the doctrine but thats the only way.(bring like 5 for first 20. 9 for 35.)
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2052
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Posted - 2014.04.10 09:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
You'd be better off with logi frigs and buffer comets (Maybe tristans if you're worried about price).
We did that a few times, was good fun. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
202
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 09:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
About the best you can hope for, with these as the only hulls would be to try SIG tank and max gank. You'll be warping out often, but with enough gank cats maybe you can clear a few before you'll need to warp out. Let the armor drones work off grid with the rats and hope for the best as they won't have enough rep to keep your cats going.
Really though, its going to be frustrating and inefficient for any use that couldn't already be done by a destroyer alone. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2052
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 10:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:About the best you can hope for, with these as the only hulls would be to try SIG tank and max gank. You'll be warping out often, but with enough gank cats maybe you can clear a few before you'll need to warp out. Let the armor drones work off grid with the rats and hope for the best as they won't have enough rep to keep your cats going.
Really though, its going to be frustrating and inefficient for any use that couldn't already be done by a destroyer alone.
No.
Sig tank doesn't actually work against multiple opponents, don't try to do this. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11096
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Posted - 2014.04.10 10:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Doing RR in small&fast ships like this is nigh impossible, partly because you so easily move out of range from eachother, partly because there's not enough EHP on them to make it realistically viable and mostly because the cap issues will be hilarious (especially since the Cata only has 2 midslots).
It would require way too much teamwork and organisation for what it, arguably, gives you back.
We have been running harpy fleets for years. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
261
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Posted - 2014.04.10 12:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Given the small size of your fleet (5 ships) I would probably go with a full group of locally tanked Incursus, with damage drones. Any shift towards non-specialised logistics as this scale and speed would almost certainly be counterproductive.
The real question is why you're limited to these (very specific) ships - skills are not the issue as, if you have the skills to fly Incursus and to make use of RR then you have the skills required to fly the Gallente T1 Frigate logistics (which have sufficient range to make sense). Perhaps it's in your RoE but as I'm at work I can't check that, but beyond that I can't see a value in such tight restrictions. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2053
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Doing RR in small&fast ships like this is nigh impossible, partly because you so easily move out of range from eachother, partly because there's not enough EHP on them to make it realistically viable and mostly because the cap issues will be hilarious (especially since the Cata only has 2 midslots).
It would require way too much teamwork and organisation for what it, arguably, gives you back. We have been running harpy fleets for years.
monkeys, typewriters, that. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Walter Pryst
Mediocracy
0
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Posted - 2014.04.11 00:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Okay, so I'm definitely not a PvEer, so forgive me if this is off base, but it sounded like a fun setup to build. Going with your parameters defined above (hopefully completely, as they are scattered), I've come up with the composition below. It based on the additional assumptions: * 6 players - 5 incursus, 1 catalyst * No skill issues ( I designed using all Lvl 5's as that makes it easier) * Mostly PvE focused, with the ability to fend off PvPers (reasonably for a 5 man frig gang) * No remote reppers other than drones (they aren't effective, and neither ship has a utility high)
This is not what I would consider good, and probably has remove for improvement, but it 1) meets your requirements, 2) is actually pilot-able, and 3) should be functional enough to actually accomplish the mission.
Incursus (5):
Damage Control ii Adaptive Nano Plating ii Small Armor Repairer ii Small Armor Repairer ii
Small Capacitor Booster ii Small Capacitor Booster ii Stasis Webifier ii (3), Warp Scrambler ii (1), Target Painter ii/Warp Disruptor ii (1)
150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii
Small anti-explosive pump i Small nanobot accelerator ii Small nanobot accelerator ii
Catalyst (1):
Damage Control ii Adaptive Nano Plating ii Small Ancillary Armor Repairer i
Small Capacitor Booster ii Civilian Afterburner i
150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii 150mm Railgun ii
Small anti-explosive pump i Small nanobot accelerator ii Small nanobot accelerator ii
Fitting notes for the above: * The adaptive nano platings could be switched for specific resists if you're looking to PvE tank. I'd highly recommend the general tank if you think you'll encouter any PvP * The civilian afterburner really is about the most useful thing I could find for the catalyts's second mid. A few other civilian modules fit, and I believe capacitor batteries or rechargers (don't recall which off-hand.) The cap mod only added about 10 seconds of cap with the booster off. The CivAB, other than being boss to actually put on a fit for reasons, brings the Catalyst's speed up to that of the prop-less incursus.
Piloting notes (dps/tank numbers are off hand, rather than the exacts. they should give a feel for effectiveness): * This is slow. Like SLOW, so don't plan to chase, or really move that much. Hopefully you're not burning between mission gates :) The incursus should all orbit the catalyst at 500 or so, and that pilot will then move the group forward. With all the rep drones in the mix orbiting the catalyst as well, this should be a slow moving Gallente BattleBallofDoom(tm.) * With long range ammo, everyone can reach beyond 30k (further for the catalyst) and the damage output is decent enough to kill things. Short range ammo brings targets who come within 4.5km the gift of ~700dps that's pretty fully applied. Scram, triple web and paint means you aren't sig or speed tanking. Let someone dive into the middle before you web them, and they probably aren't leaving either. * Drones should all be tech 2 armor bots, and repping the catalylst. This brings his tank up to just shy of 200dps with heat and paste. Still a glass cannon, but will last a bit longer against non-alpha. * Dual rep, dual injector on the incursus means they can tank 220dps pretty reasonably, until modules melt. In a pinch, drones can be sent to help an incursus, but will only add 30-40dps to the tank. * Being almost entirely active tanked, these guys should be pretty quick to align and warp. I wouldn't engage anything you wouldn't regularly as your tank isn't bossmode. It'll do slightly better than if these ships were solo, but not enough that I'd feel like I had real logi. * Regarding PvP directly, you're pretty limited in what you can choose to engage, and will be a nice target for others to engage. Dscan/local vigilance will be very important if you're doing this anywhere even remotely hostile, as your PvP set-up is really geared towards repelling casual attacks.
This actually sounds like a lot of fun to fly, especially if you faked PvP somewhere like FW space. And with the full 6 people should look pretty sweet. If you try this, definitely post a picture :)
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Richard Masseri
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 01:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jacob Holland
Quote:The real question is why you're limited to these (very specific) ships - skills are not the issue as, if you have the skills to fly Incursus and to make use of RR then you have the skills required to fly the Gallente T1 Frigate logistics (which have sufficient range to make sense). Perhaps it's in your RoE but as I'm at work I can't check that, but beyond that I can't see a value in such tight restrictions.
I can't exactly answer the "why" bit though I imagine some people looking at this thread might of guessed. The only reason I mentioned the RoE is because of an earlier mention of High Sec Ganking which would be entirely against our RoE.
Walter Pryst thanks for this idea its definitely something I'll look into and yes there will definitely be pictures if not a video as well.
Once again thanks everyone for your ideas even more so those who contributed within the parameters but yeah thanks everyone |
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
86
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Posted - 2014.04.11 06:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
might as well fly RR Vengeances :D
the default RR range on frigs is ******* ****.
so I'd say thats a rather bad Idea.
I have seen people fly Algoses with RR Drones which worked pretty good. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2053
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Wait, this is for pve?
Why would you do PVE fleets when you can do pvp fleets for twice the fun? BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
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Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
203
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 10:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Wait, this is for pve?
Why would you do PVE fleets when you can do pvp fleets for twice the fun?
That is why I suggested the gank fit and just jump out right away after blapping a rat or two. :p |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2053
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 14:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Wait, this is for pve?
Why would you do PVE fleets when you can do pvp fleets for twice the fun? That is why I suggested the gank fit and just jump out right away after blapping a rat or two. :p
Thats such a strange way to pass your time though? You don't get a lot of isk from it..
You don't get a lot of fun from it..
Like... Why not just pvp? O.o Its a lot more fun BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
203
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Froggy Storm wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Wait, this is for pve?
Why would you do PVE fleets when you can do pvp fleets for twice the fun? That is why I suggested the gank fit and just jump out right away after blapping a rat or two. :p Thats such a strange way to pass your time though? You don't get a lot of isk from it.. You don't get a lot of fun from it.. Like... Why not just pvp? O.o Its a lot more fun
No idea. The OP is being extra cryptic.
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Richard Masseri
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 00:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
356
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Posted - 2014.04.13 13:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
I would suggest taking hobs or similar in the incursus then assigning them to assist on or two primary pilots, that way you focus them onto one rat at a time and get a faster kill which reduces incoming dps faster |
Walter Pryst
Mediocracy
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 19:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I would suggest taking hobs or similar in the incursus then assigning them to assist on or two primary pilots, that way you focus them onto one rat at a time and get a faster kill which reduces incoming dps faster
Agreed. The extra DPS would be more effective I think than the extra tank. That being said, per the OP's request, he wanted some RR going on and the drones bring the Catalyst's tank up to almost that of an incursus. You can call me Walt |
Fenris Orion
Rapid Withdrawal
5
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Interesting challege. Without questioning "why", I think I have an easier answer. For mostly pve, and the occasional (defensive?) PvP, I would mix the following two fits however you see fit:
Incursus: Archer
3x 125mm railguns
web/point/mwd
DC/ANP/SAAR/Mag-Stab
Hobgoblins
rigs are up to you, depending on fitting skills. You might drop the web or point for a cap booster and possibly dual rep if you need to absorb that much damage. More on that in a sec.
Catalyst: Balista
8x 150mm railguns
MSE/AB
DC/2x Mag-Stabs
rigs: em-screen, core defense field extender, hybrid collision accelerator.
If fitting is an issue, drop to 125's and use best meta gear you can fit.
Tactic: eliminate targets quickly, use web-cursis' to improve applied damage. Carry plenty of nanite paste for ancillary rep reloads. Buffer/passive regen should be plenty to keep the Cats in the fight, bounce out and back if you drop into armor. If you encounter PVP opportunities, focus fire and webs on targets smallest to largest, stay outside of neut range whenever possible (especially vs cruisers). No need for remote repping as everyone ends up back at 100% after the fight.
Think that fits the mission profile? |
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