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Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys AAA Citizens
65
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Posted - 2014.04.10 02:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.
I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4339
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Posted - 2014.04.10 02:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
You must be new here.. Welcome to EVE...
also: --> Jita Park Speakers Corner The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1576
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Posted - 2014.04.10 02:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's a libertarian democracy. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
DRGaius Baltar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2014.04.10 02:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.
I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors.
Either is renting |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4883
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Posted - 2014.04.10 02:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dear -A-: One of your space slaves thinks he has a voice. Please deal with this accordingly. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
stoicfaux
4444
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.
I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors. You obviously don't understand voting. You have one vote to elect a representative. Then you can get more votes by making donations to your representative to get your representative to vote on the legislation that you would or would not like to see passed.
See? One person having many votes is the norm in a democracy.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2859
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
hi i'm also uncomfortable with this, i'd prefer it if one player had one vote. but from what i remember ccp has problems identifiying players from accounts without a human investigation, so i think one player/one vote'd be difficult to enforce and subject to shenanigans
i'd prefer one account/one vote for now because it's a transparent system that's not open to mucking about |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1185
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Still more Democratic than the USA, or China, or Crimea. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1578
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Still more Democratic than the USA, or China, or Crimea.
This thread is going places. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2147
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
First off, I would imagine it would be near impossible to be able to accurately link the thousands of eve accounts to their RL owners.
Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power? |
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
410
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Still more Democratic than the USA, or China, or Crimea. I hear Afghanistan had a pretty decent election this year |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1578
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:First off, I would imagine it would be near impossible to be able to accurately link the thousands of eve accounts to their RL owners.
Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power?
There is precedent for this. It's similar to why the USA has The House of Representatives which is based off population. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
410
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:First off, I would imagine it would be near impossible to be able to accurately link the thousands of eve accounts to their RL owners.
Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power? There is precedent for this. It's similar to why the USA has The House of Representatives which is based off population. of course you got the amarr always trying to pull the 3/5 compromise with the rest of the empires |
Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
232
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it.
Yes, and?
The CSM aren't a political authority, they're an advisory panel. They are intended to give CCP advice that reflects the opinions of their subscriber base. Accordingly BobTheMiner, with his twelve mining characters, constitutes twelve times as much customer as you do. Given that the CSM voting system now explicitly takes your session cookie and copies your voting list when you login between accounts, it's clear that CCP are explicitly supporting the many accounts, many votes model.
It's their advisory panel, and they care about Bob's opinions twelve times more than they do yours, because Bob gives them twelve times as much money. That's why Bob gets twelve votes, and you get one. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1094
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
The characters on my accounts each have their own personality. They might vote differently to each other. . -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1094
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power?
You know that ALOD and follow up scam a few weeks ago with the article on TMC?
This one: Go Back to WoW
It's a good demonstration that the number of accounts =/= revenue.
The capacity to provide revenue to CCP is derived from the player, not from the number of accounts that player owns.
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1238
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Endovior wrote: Given that the CSM voting system now explicitly takes your session cookie and copies your voting list when you login between accounts, it's clear that CCP are explicitly supporting the many accounts, many votes model.
And thank goodness for that. Much as my voting was probably very odd for a lot of High Sec players, since I don't have the time currently to play in low, null or WH space, in that I included mainly non high sec candidates. It was a relief to not have to manually enter the list. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2147
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Posted - 2014.04.10 03:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power? You know that ALOD and follow up scam a few weeks ago with the article on TMC? This one: Go Back to WoWIt's a good demonstration that the number of accounts =/= revenue. The capacity to provide revenue to CCP is derived from the player, not from the number of accounts that player owns.
Only partially correct. Really. Of course you know that if you understand how PLEX works.
Doesn't change the fact that a player with 10 accounts at least generates 10x the revenue "demand" (maybe a more accurate portrayal) than the player with 1 account. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1094
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Doesn't change the fact that a player with 10 accounts at least generates 10x the revenue "demand" (maybe a more accurate portrayal) than the player with 1 account.
BS. It generates 10x the subscription revenue, given that both players being compared pay for their subscription the same way. That's it. Nothing further.
Outside that, it has no bearing on total revenue, which is not dependent on the number of accounts a player owns.
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4572
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tell me I'm not the only who chuckled at "democratical". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Muestereate
Minions LLC
285
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Get with it. Money rules the universe, democracy is a smokescreen. it is not a method of self rule but in fact a method of self subjugation. Example: Two parties want to exploit you, they fight one wins, your exploited. Since you had no say in the matter you cry totalitarian or dictator and soon have a revolt. second example: two parties want to exploit you, you vote, one wins, your exploited. Since you had a say in the matter, you subjugate yourself since it was choice you made. We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. CSM and its vote are just methods useed to control rebelion and dissent. We vote for it, when it goes to pot its our fault. Just grin and BEAR it and grind. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2147
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Doesn't change the fact that a player with 10 accounts at least generates 10x the revenue "demand" (maybe a more accurate portrayal) than the player with 1 account. BS, though "partially correct" is still much better than totally wrong. It generates 10x the subscription revenue, given that both players being compared pay for their subscription the same way. That's it. Nothing further. Outside that, it has no bearing on total revenue, which is not dependent on the number of accounts a player owns. This is starting to go off topic into revenue as opposed to the "non-democratic" process around the CSM voting, so perhaps a different thread is the way to go rather than we take it totally off topic. Happy to keep discussing economics though.
Again not really correct. It is irrelevant how people pay for their subscription (aside from the minor fluctuations of course in prices from 1 month to 1 year subs etc). The relevant point is that there are no free subscriptions. They are all paid for somehow.
There are really only 2 uses for PLEX. Subscription services and vanity items. The primary reason the ALOD player could buy his pimp Raven with PLEX is because for every PLEX he bought with $$$, there was someone else on the other end willing to give him isk to use that PLEX (primarily for their subscription). It's not like CCP prints isk out of thin air for people buying PLEX.
It still doesn't change the fact that my 10 accounts (I don't actually have 10, thats crazy) represent 10 subscriptions vs someone elses 1 account which represents 1 subscription. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1094
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:It still doesn't change the fact that my 10 accounts (I don't actually have 10, thats crazy) represent 10 subscriptions vs someone elses 1 account which represents 1 subscription. Subscription, yes. That's what I've already written.
Revenue, no.
But this is not the thread. If you want to go into the economics of revnue associated with accounts, then open a thread and we can discuss it. This isn't the thread for that, but "subscription" as opposed to "revenue" is perfect. Don't change from that because that aspect is correct.
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1654
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Endovior wrote: Yes, and?
The CSM aren't a political authority, they're an advisory panel. They are intended to give CCP advice that reflects the opinions of their subscriber base. Accordingly BobTheMiner, with his twelve mining characters, constitutes twelve times as much customer as you do. Given that the CSM voting system now explicitly takes your session cookie and copies your voting list when you login between accounts, it's clear that CCP are explicitly supporting the many accounts, many votes model.
It's their advisory panel, and they care about Bob's opinions twelve times more than they do yours, because Bob gives them twelve times as much money. That's why Bob gets twelve votes, and you get one.
CSM is basically a focus group. I've always been impressed that CCP was able to take something that other companies have to pay people to do, and turn it into something EVE players will fiercely compete to be a part of. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Kyperion
225
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.
I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors. Who gives a flying **** about 'Democracy' ....its a Representative Republic you want anyway.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2147
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:It still doesn't change the fact that my 10 accounts (I don't actually have 10, thats crazy) represent 10 subscriptions vs someone elses 1 account which represents 1 subscription. Subscription, yes. That's what I've already written. Revenue, no. But this is not the thread. If you want to go into the economics of revnue associated with accounts, then open a thread and we can discuss it. This isn't the thread for that, but "subscription" as opposed to "revenue" is perfect. Don't change from that because that aspect is correct.
Yea whatever. It wasn't a goal to nitpick semantics. All I was talking about was subscriptions and hence subscription revenue. Active subscriptions is really the only accurate measure CCP can use for votes in this case. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
703
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:... We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. ....
lol@unique identities Dude i'm 44, i AM the authority now in my chosen field. Rebellion is just the unauthorised desire to be in a position of authority. Adulthood doesn't stop rebellion, plenty of grownup rebels the world over. Passively resisting a system that feeds and beats you is for rich idiots though. CSM, like the forums, is a way for whiny dingbats to let off steam. Your post about the nature of life from the viewpoint of a schoolboy is exactly that. Rebellion, pixels, please.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4890
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Muestereate wrote:... We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. .... lol@unique identities Dude i'm 44, i AM the authority now in my chosen field.
Welfare cheating? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3361
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
What are you kidding? "Pay more and you get a louder voice" is EXACTLY how it works in real life.
Well, in the US anyway. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1162
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
I predict a record turnout this year of 112%. |
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