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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
701
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Posted - 2014.04.19 15:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Interesting thread. As a Khanid pilot I should have a look at Khanid lowsec, shouldn't I? Let's see how this industry stuff develops and maybe I reevaluate my carebearish HS life in a couple of months .
Until then consider this a friendly bump . Remove insurance. |
Subject 4927
The United Nations
41
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Posted - 2014.04.19 15:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
If this takes off I'm going to throw my alt corp down there. I could see this go good once a few corps/alliances do it and report positive feedback.
Come on Carebears, Be useful. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
502
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 20:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
Although not using this service, I completely approve of this wonderfull idea of emergent gameplay!
Awesome! |
Anh Emarious
Dept. of Defense
19
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Posted - 2014.04.20 04:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
I have always wondered why some enterprising corps/alliance did not set up a official program for this very idea. When I first started in aa noob mining corp we struck a deal with a old school PvP corp who had hunted us in lowsec. We ended up getting protection and they got steady minerals. Eventually the PvP vets locked dow the whole region and several industry corps worked and missioned there. This could work |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
258
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Posted - 2014.04.20 17:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
That's great to hear actually. Send me a mail with any questions. I'm really flexible with this. I'm sure we can work out an understanding custom made for whatever your needs may be. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
17
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:48:00 -
[66] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Michael Mach wrote:I would be lots more interested if I had more specifics, mainly on price. A Google Doc spreadsheet would be most welcome. Issue is in 0.0 renting you have a price for each system. Since this sort of renting doesn't limit you to one system in that manner, it's impossible to just give you a number. I can't say "Abath is worth X." Payment is also a very fluid concept rather than a hard fee. I'm thinking of offering discounts per month based on alternate methods of payment. Maybe a member wants to buy a dread and if you provide it at a discount, part or all of the rental fee is dropped. Perhaps we need a bunch of materials hauled somewhere. Helping us would earn a discount. I prefer to do things in an "eastern market" manner where you haggle a bit over the price rather than the "western model" where the price is the price. That way both parties are interested in a discourse. Mail me to talk.
That's really interesting if it involve some sort of exchange too rather than only and simply a isk price. As Mara Pahrdi I will wait for the summer expansion first and will consider your offer since I'm located in Kor-Azor and also roam in Khanid.
Bump |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
639
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Posted - 2014.04.22 20:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
LOL.
Epic win.
Since there will be more duders in Aridia, I may end up putting up Cytoserocin orders again. Mindflood is pro. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Moloney
Doobie Den
61
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Posted - 2014.04.23 15:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
Erm, yay, somewhere new to go hunt carebears and syj (until they get bored and run off with any isk you are stupid enough to give them.... |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
264
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Posted - 2014.04.23 19:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Moloney wrote:Erm, yay, somewhere new to go hunt carebears and syj (until they get bored and run off with any isk you are stupid enough to give them....
Please bring fruitcake. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Amely Miles
Exiled Tech
9
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Posted - 2014.04.24 16:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
one thing you could do is like others suggested put a fee for system / constellation rented in a spreadsheet.... for instance this system over here has a few moons capable of being mined so i will charge XX (allowing for little bit of profit for the owners) and then so many asteroid belts so Y for that and oh theres a station here so that is a total of z= total rental fee .... rental corp makes isk as well as SYJ and if anyone is manufacturing/mining/moon mining/ratting where there not supposed to be then set them red and kill em and collect tears from that as well as KB buff
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
559
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Posted - 2014.04.24 22:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
What happens when two of your "renters" have a falling out and become enemies of each other? Which one do you protect and which do you shoot? Or would you maintain neutrality and let them work it out themselves? I can't imagine you want to spend a large portion of your time mediating.... |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 22:18:00 -
[72] - Quote
Amely Miles wrote:one thing you could do is like others suggested put a fee for system / constellation rented in a spreadsheet.... for instance this system over here has a few moons capable of being mined so i will charge XX (allowing for little bit of profit for the owners) and then so many asteroid belts so Y for that and oh theres a station here so that is a total of z= total rental fee .... rental corp makes isk as well as SYJ and if anyone is manufacturing/mining/moon mining/ratting where there not supposed to be then set them red and kill em and collect tears from that as well as KB buff
Again this isn't just a copy of a 0.0 agreement simply applied in lowsec. It's a unique understanding that requires a different approach. Mail me if you're interested and we can talk prices.
Eran Mintor wrote:What happens when two of your "renters" have a falling out and become enemies of each other? Which one do you protect and which do you shoot? Or would you maintain neutrality and let them work it out themselves? I can't imagine you want to spend a large portion of your time mediating....
Offender pays for damages. Refusing to do so would be a breach of our contract and they will be quickly purged. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 22:21:00 -
[73] - Quote
That works if the situation is black and white but most tend not to be.
Nevertheless, I'll be watching this develop. |
Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
6
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Posted - 2014.04.24 23:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
I made offers like this to pirates I knew many months ago, but they were not interested in blueing me even if I paid them. The Khanid region then seemed like a good alternative as it was nice and quiet. Currently I am not interested, but perhaps after the summer expansion. I don't have access to a rorqual right now, so setting up a compression/safe POS in lowsec could be a very good alternative this summer. And it will allow more efficient refining. - there needs to be a joint intel channel - safety is crucial and intel is key to that - if I wanted to give this a go this summer I'd want a 'token' rent to start with (I'm thinking 200M for the first month) for me, some alts and maybe some people I can recruit for this venture, or something like a minimum amount for the corp (100M) plus a price per character (10M). - I really like this idea and might be willing to try it just to see if it is viable, even if I'm going to be the guy paying for it - possibly it's easier to just start up a corp yourself and charge the members a monthly fee - lowsec is much more accessible for newer players than nullsec (although I hear Goonswarm will transport all my stuff for free) - Access to fleets could be a plus for some people. Many industrial players do like to join fleets for defending blue assets (POS/POCO) even if they don't like roams and gatecamps (PvP for the sake of PvP). Especially if you can offer experienced FCs. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 23:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jattila Vrek wrote: - possibly it's easier to just start up a corp yourself and charge the members a monthly fee - lowsec is much more accessible for newer players than nullsec (although I hear Goonswarm will accept a contract for all my stuff and not contract it back, for free)
Ftfy youre welcome. |
Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
6
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Posted - 2014.04.24 23:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
Amely Miles wrote:one thing you could do is like others suggested put a fee for system / constellation rented in a spreadsheet.... For a small corp that only has 1 mining fleet, so only needs to rent 1 system, cloaky campers can really mess things up if you are not free to move to a deserted system. The ability for tiny corporations to work toghether with others could make lowsec renting a good place to start and maybe grow their ranks.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 02:35:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jattila Vrek wrote:I made offers like this to pirates I knew many months ago, but they were not interested in blueing me even if I paid them. The Khanid region then seemed like a good alternative as it was nice and quiet. Currently I am not interested, but perhaps after the summer expansion. I don't have access to a rorqual right now, so setting up a compression/safe POS in lowsec could be a very good alternative this summer. And it will allow more efficient refining. - there needs to be a joint intel channel - safety is crucial and intel is key to that - if I wanted to give this a go this summer I'd want a 'token' rent to start with (I'm thinking 200M for the first month) for me, some alts and maybe some people I can recruit for this venture, or something like a minimum amount for the corp (100M) plus a price per character (10M). - I really like this idea and might be willing to try it just to see if it is viable, even if I'm going to be the guy paying for it - possibly it's easier to just start up a corp yourself and charge the members a monthly fee - lowsec is much more accessible for newer players than nullsec (although I hear Goonswarm will transport all my stuff for free) - Access to fleets could be a plus for some people. Many industrial players do like to join fleets for defending blue assets (POS/POCO) even if they don't like roams and gatecamps (PvP for the sake of PvP). Especially if you can offer experienced FCs.
There is a common resident channel. Lets everyone know who to blue, if they're pay is up to date and who to contact. I'm also thinking of working with the members there to form some sort of "standing militia doctrine" that's fairly cheap/lower SP required but still effective as a general fleet if any of them want to pvp.
Actually a lot of people inquiring about this service seem to be equally interested in pvp and pve/indy side of things. The 0.0 renters seem to be almost exclusive about just ratting and industry. So with this there's a lot more flexibility in what Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Kimsemus
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 05:38:00 -
[78] - Quote
I really don't know how I missed this gem of a thread until right now.
Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 06:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kimsemus wrote:I really don't know how I missed this gem of a thread until right now.
You missed it because you were too busy buttering me up to blue up your pets in the area and give you moons. Since we didn't, I'm guessing this is our idea of "getting back" at us. Very impressive.
Kimsemus wrote:Let's do a quick rundown of the basic problems I see here:
1. Arrow Zero reason person you're paying isk too won't just run off with it.
2. Arrow No benefits of having the security of your own station. Want to stop reds from docking in your station? Too bad. Oh, and don't engage them first, the NPC sentry guns no one owns will shoot at you.
3. Arrow Space you cannot upgrade, nor can you stop people from just running whatever anoms/sites you're trying to run anyway.
4. Arrow If you are somehow stupid enough to pay for "renting", and violate your agreement, what are they going to do, lock your stuff in a station they can't control? Kick you out of the sov they don't own? Prevent you from renting offices?
5. Arrow Dozens of entities with POSes in many systems in Khanid, all of which can use them to stage and kill you.
1. Goes for anything in Eve. Even your alliance's rental agreement, so moot point, nice try.
2. Unless of course, we engage them. And please if you find someone in the area, let us know.
3. Lowsec has its own benefits and a whole region to do anoms/sites all over the place. Where's your spirit of exploration?
4. Burn any poses/pocos or anything that let's you be anyone of note in the region.
Kimsemus wrote:A better solution would be to not pay anyone and just live there because no one can stop you.
Do you want to know why people don't rent lowsec? Because it's stupid to try and rent lowsec.
Unless of course you want to put up any structures.
Kimsemus wrote:If you're insistent on paying someone to live in space though, just pay for you own system with several nullsec power blocks that you all know but I won't mention since I'm not going to pitch another service in this thread. At least then you get security, better space in every category, and stations with actual controlled access. Oh, and we can actually enforce our own sov claims. You can literally get everything you could possibly want, and with prices VASTLY below what this snake oil thread is trying to pitch you for. Systems are available (with stations) for 2b or less in some cases, with vastly less PVP traffic and superior PVE economics in every category.
Ouch. Talk about bitter. Sorry we didn't want to be your friend. I'm not sure how you can claim a lower price when you don't know what the charges are. I guess you're missing the point though. This isn't for your 0.0 indy types. Lowsec is for corps/alliances that want to do more than that. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Kimsemus
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 06:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Since you started off with it -- I really don't care about your standings. The moons are back in N3, so I got what I wanted. Your insistence on trying to contract our diplos is just amusing, along with your comment about talking to vince (lol). Your conversations might be getting ignored because we simply don't care.
I'll refute your first point again:
1) The reason a legitimate rental alliance (Such as Northern Associates, or our CFC counterpart) doesn't run off with your isk is because there are already 800b/month of renters already living in space (which we own) and if we started robbing people that would pretty quickly dry up. You guys, on the other hand, have no enforceable claim, nor any collateral (other than a dubious reputation as a lowsec pirate alliance). Think of squatters walking into an abandoned building and then charging rent to other squatters. No one owns it, and the other "tenants" have as much right to be there as you do.
2) Even if you try to engage reds on a station, they can just dock and play the same station games you do. Again -- you can't lock anyone out of stations because you don't own them. They can use all the industry slots, clone bays, market, and undock and dock freely because you really can't do anything to stop them, and you only have dominance in ONE of the three major timezones.
3) You are correct that lowsec has it's own set of benefits, and all of them in general are vastly inferior to nullsec. If people are going to pay you to live somewhere, they aren't doing it in the "spirit of exploration". They're doing it to make money.
4) You can attempt to attack orbital assets, but again -- the level of control you exercise is minimal. But this is kind of a moot point because you can do 90% of activites from the numerous NPC stations in the area. It's not as if you need intensive refining arrays, and there are plenty of industry slots. And since there is no sov, it's not as though people will be anchoring CSAAs.
Quote:Ouch. Talk about bitter. Sorry we didn't want to be your friend. I'm not sure how you can claim a lower price when you don't know what the charges are. I guess you're missing the point though. This isn't for your 0.0 indy types. Lowsec is for corps/alliances that want to do more than that.
My post really wasn't a personal attack, your ad hominem is really presented only because you can't truly refute my points.
The bottom line is that lowsec is not really controllable in any true sense. You can offer people the illusion of safety -- but that's really all it is. It's the same reason that alliances "live" in NPC null, but don't really "own" it. Faction Warfare space and the milita that take part in it are the only thing that comes close to sov null. And even then -- FW provides money far in excess compared to what lowsec can provide otherwise.
Bottom line -- if you're going to rent space, rent it from a legitimate entity that actually holds it.
PS -- I'm sorry we couldn't be friends as well. If you're interested in working together in the future though we have most of Impass that needs renting and I'm sure we could work something out for you and yours. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 07:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
Kimsemus wrote:Since you started off with it -- I really don't care about your standings. The moons are back in N3, so I got what I wanted. Your insistence on trying to contract our diplos is just amusing, along with your comment about talking to vince (lol). Your conversations might be getting ignored because we simply don't care.
Moving the goal posts are we? You specifically wanted us to allow you to grind NARM's old moons to your guy in the area and pretended to be a diplo for your alliance/coalition trying to sabre rattle in a place you can't do jack squat. Unless something changed in the last five minutes, Varc still holds the moons.
Kimsemus wrote:I'll refute your first point again:
1. Actually SYJ is a known mercenary alliance with years of history in wormhole space and a long standing member of the Merc contracts channel. We already have clients. So again you're speaking from vibrant ignorance.
2. Ok, and they can dock up, and that's all they can do. Can they run sites or anoms or mine or put up a pos or poco? No. So their presence is irrelevant.
3. Except when you rent in 0.0 you are perma deced so forget about going to Empire without a network of alts. I've put a few alts in the major 0.0 rental alliances and aside from a handful of roaming frigs/cruisers, nobody protects your assets.
4. I don't think you have much of a clue about the region to be talking about who excercises what control. And the benefits of lowsec have been outlined numerous times in the thread. Go scroll up if you're still having trouble finding them.
Kimsemus wrote:My post really wasn't a personal attack, your ad hominem is really presented only because you can't truly refute my points.
The bottom line is that lowsec is not really controllable in any true sense. You can offer people the illusion of safety -- but that's really all it is. It's the same reason that alliances "live" in NPC null, but don't really "own" it. Faction Warfare space and the milita that take part in it are the only thing that comes close to sov null. And even then -- FW provides money far in excess compared to what lowsec can provide otherwise.
Bottom line -- if you're going to rent space, rent it from a legitimate entity that actually holds it.
Let's just be honest. You're here over personal reasons, not out of some altruistic sentiment. A few nights ago you were all glitter and friendship. You pretended to be someone of leadership in your alliance/coalition yet everyone in NCdot/Nulli/PL I've spoken to, has no idea who you are. You're free to have your opinion but let's not hide behind our fingers and pretend this is anything else. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Kimsemus
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
130
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 07:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Again -- all you can hope to refute me with is your own misguided opinions based entirely out of a sense of unwarranted self importance.
I have pretty effectively demonstrated that what you're attempting to do here lacks merit in almost every regard. If people insist on giving you their isk anyway that's their choice and their mistake to make.
You can attack me personally, based on your own misconceived notions all you wish -- I really don't care.
At the end of the day you're trying to pitch people on the idea of paying you to live in lowsec, while people can see the obvious benefits of null -- which is why tens of thousands already rent there.
I would compare Khanid to EVEnews24, and sov null to TMC. Writers (I mean renters) have a choice in where they live, and they choose TMC (I'm sorry, "nullsec") almost every time, because they know where the quality is.
And with that, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 07:26:00 -
[83] - Quote
k...feel better champ Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Marr21608
Time and all Eternity HumAnnoyeD
23
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Posted - 2014.04.25 14:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Kimsemus wrote:Again -- all you can hope to refute me with is your own misguided opinions based entirely out of a sense of unwarranted self importance.
I have pretty effectively demonstrated that what you're attempting to do here lacks merit in almost every regard. If people insist on giving you their isk anyway that's their choice and their mistake to make.
You can attack me personally, based on your own misconceived notions all you wish -- I really don't care.
At the end of the day you're trying to pitch people on the idea of paying you to live in lowsec, while people can see the obvious benefits of null -- which is why tens of thousands already rent there.
I would compare Khanid to EVEnews24, and sov null to TMC. Writers (I mean renters) have a choice in where they live, and they choose TMC (I'm sorry, "nullsec") almost every time, because they know where the quality is.
And with that, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
You have a good point and you are an idiot. Your good point is renting in Low sec is a stupid idea. You are an idiot because you seem to think that it is fun to rent from the massive hordes of 19 year old kids in N3/PL and CFC.
SOV mechanics in modern eve have made it so a moderate size alliance can no longer hold sov. You have to pay hommage to one of the two guys that run EVE.
NULL SUCKS BALZ! RENTING IS WORSE! There is little content available in player held Null Sec and for what there is available the overlord alliances full of **** lords will milk it for all it is worth.
Renter corporations and alliances will go around 6 months of renting to discover this then cut ties and ditch no richer than they would have been grinding in high sec.
You are right however in that Low sec Renting is a joke. Low sec belongs to the NPC Faction that lives there. You low sec alliances that got booted out of Null or absorbed into one of the big boys need to all man up and start taking SOV.
I know for a fact that if you all cause problems across the borders of N3/PL and CFC space they will stop gloating stop boasting and start losing.
Besides.... Isn't the death of CFC N3 and PL what we all want??? Don't we all wish to see Mittens and Graths posts vanish??? **** Half of their own people including their highest leadership want to see them die, and they cannot maintain a relationship with someone for lng without encouraging threats on each others real lives. I believe that they define the word "**** lord".
If we are all in agreement about this then we should all pick one system and start with the gorilla warfare and make Null sec into the colorful mishmash of incredibly diverse groups of awesome players that it has been many times before.
And to SYJ. If yer gonna do this go to Venal. Much quieter and the constellations are ideal for this stupid idea. |
Marr21608
Time and all Eternity HumAnnoyeD
23
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Posted - 2014.04.25 14:50:00 -
[85] - Quote
Take that back maybe Khanid is better.... Its a really different idea... I may be warming up to it....
BUT N3 PL AND CFC ARE STILL GAY FOR EACH OTHER! And should all choke on each other. |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
I always find it particularly piquant when nullbunnies try to proclaim 0.0 space as some sort of "end game"... especially segments like :
Kimsemus wrote: with vastly less PVP traffic and superior PVE economics in every category.
Because uber-carebearing is what EVE is all about?
Oh, and when is the last time you looked at the NPC station que's in lowsec? They arent short. 30 days to make copies.... yeah..
I know im nobody special, but +1 to SYJ for an innovative idea. If they can keep this going, good on them.
Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
18
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Posted - 2014.04.25 16:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
Kimsemus wrote: At the end of the day you're trying to pitch people on the idea of paying you to live in lowsec, while people can see the obvious benefits of null -- which is why tens of thousands already rent there.
I would compare Khanid to EVEnews24, and sov null to TMC. Writers (I mean renters) have a choice in where they live, and they choose TMC (I'm sorry, "nullsec") almost every time, because they know where the quality is.
And with that, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
I don't think that multiple billions a month renting in nullsec is affordable for any small/tiny casual or not corps that your nullsec alliance, among all the others in null-sec, doesn't care about anyway. Without counting that the rented area can be taken by another alliance one day and your assets locked. I don't even include mandatory "duties".
Lowsec is cool for the thrill, the freedom and the absence of politics. And if it is possible to have some constructive exchange with local low-sec groups by various ways why not? It is obviously not a renting since Low-sec don't belong to any group and yes you don't need any "rent" to go in Low Sec and doing your stuff, I doing it myself without paying anything apart for the POCOs here, but it is more like a cooperation without the need to be allied with them or belongs to another corp.
Finally with this "fabulous" summer expansion that's feels like a good opportunity. You can detest the intiative but hey Eve is a sandbox, to each of us to take the way we want to, that could give others some ideas too. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
268
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
Any time there is a unique or different idea presented, you'll have the "old school crowd" that feel they need to discredit it before it even takes full effect. But again, the motivations for this have been touched upon. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
StarConquer212
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
209
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tldr
Give us "syj" money for living in space that's free.
The neutral alts posting supporting was a nice touch lol |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
604
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:00:00 -
[90] - Quote
StarConquer212 wrote:Tldr
Give us "syj" money for living in space that's free.
The neutral alts posting supporting was a nice touch lol
I support it. Im not an alt.... Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
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