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Quarra Shepard
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.04.11 12:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1916
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 12:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wormholes aren't dangerous; their residents are.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
3581
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 12:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Wormholes aren't dangerous; their residents are.
Wanted to post that first.
But yeah...
WH are a good source of ISK. But the time I spend in WH it felt like I was the only person in it for days. Other times there bubbles and fighting going on 24/7. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
Forumata Altaris
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.04.11 12:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quarra Shepard wrote:I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?
I'd say the risk comes in three main forms:
* Other players. * Entrance closing behind you / not having scanners and being stranded inside. * Sleepers (NPCs).
The NPCs and navigation you can learn and adapt to. Other wormhole dwellers however are a bit more tricky, at least as a "non-permanent resident" if you will (especially as a new player).
Granted, my experience is very limited and based around shorter exploration visits. There are far more knowledgeable players who can, I'm sure, go into more detail.
However, when you talk about whether or not it is worth it - I'd say yes. Both in terms of the ISK you could make, but also just for the adventure itself. Going into a WH chain and just making it out alive has been one of the most exciting things I've done as a new player in this game. Would highly recommend! |
Lemon Nado
Gallentinos
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 12:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just go.... Space pixels.... you can't die... Be adventurous.
Take a ship, scan a wormhole, mark the spot, fly back, grab a shuttle and go sightseeing.
Don't warp to close when you want to check out anomalies (green lines in scanner; rather right lcik and warp to 100km).
And if there is a resident.... they might leave you alone because a shuttle is such an odd thing... Or they are happily giving you a quick ticket home... Where you can start again. Don't forget to write YYYYAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR into the local channel when someone is about to "send you back".
Don't sit in front of a wormhole OR Lowsec OR Nullsec and don;t venture there because it's full of closet monsters.
If you have an anomaly somewhere close and you don't know what it's about... Leave your ship at home, fly your pod right into it. The NPC's don't shoot at pods. You can take fun selfies with NPC pirates...
Go explore....
And visit the wormhole forum. Maybe someone is kind enough to give you a tour. Happened before.
Hmmmm....actually.... noob wormhole tours.... A new business.... I'm onto something...
;) Lemo
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17732
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Posted - 2014.04.11 12:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy
Seriously though, the residents, both NPC and player, of wormholes are fiercely territorial. The NPC AI is brutal, so is their firepower and tank. The players themselves don't take kindly to visitors, wormholes tend to encourage a very specific set of skills, especially ones that involve scanning stuff down very quickly; which they will use to hunt you down and violence your space canoe, and your pod. If you get caught your corpse will end up being a plaything.
The best advice for anyone daytripping into them is to have a probe launcher and probes fitted, and to bookmark everything, especially your exit
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SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
396
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Posted - 2014.04.11 12:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
WH is for the experience, the lifestyle. There is no other area in EVE that can provide the same.
Really theres 3 way of utilising them:
-Live in one, different nabouring systems everyday, no local intel channel - THE POS EXPERIENCE -Use them as gateways from one area to another (i.e. get your heron, drop in a wormhole and find a nullsec exit, go hack some cans and go back to sell your loot in highsec) -Daytripping, take a T1 Battlecruiser and go murder some sleepers (I would only attempt this in a c1/c2, although a drake will probably handle some c3 sites)
The money in a wormhole is from the sleepers, although I hear PI is pretty ludicrous too (I don't know enough about PI to tell you). You salvage the sleepers wrecks for the real $$$.
Just assume you're always being watched in a wormhole, and keep ontop of Dscan like a super paranoid dude and you will be fine.. until one day the proteus whos been watching you from day one thinks you've grown fat enough to eat. I disagree |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17733
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 12:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote:Daytripping, take a T1 Battlecruiser and go murder some sleepers (I would only attempt this in a c1/c2, although a drake will probably handle some c3 sites) You used to be able to solo most C3 sites in a Drake, haven't tried to do it in a couple of years though
Quote:The money in a wormhole is from the sleepers, although I hear PI is pretty ludicrous too (I don't know enough about PI to tell you). You salvage the sleepers wrecks for the real $$$. Melted Nano-Ribbons... yum. The PI is pretty damn good, the corp I was in used to fuel our own POS from it and sell the considerable excess to our alliance; at one stage I think we were fuelling around 5 alliance POS's with everything but ice products (pre fuel block) from our lowly C3.
Quote:Just assume you're always being watched in a wormhole, and keep ontop of Dscan like a super paranoid dude and you will be fine.. until one day the proteus whos been watching you from day one thinks you've grown fat enough to eat. Pretty much this.
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Saulius Adoudel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.11 13:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bull****,get inside wspace,say hi in local and im sure you'll get a warm greeting from the residents |
Quarra Shepard
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.04.11 13:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy
I could have gone the whole day without seeing that, thanks for creeping out my night....
I wast aware that Jovian systems or encounters were possible in Eve. So pretty much every WH is dangerous with players or NPC's? |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17739
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quarra Shepard wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy I could have gone the whole day without seeing that, thanks for creeping out my night.... I wast aware that Jovian systems or encounters were possible in Eve. So pretty much every WH is dangerous with players or NPC's? Sorry about that, it's the Eve version of being Rickrolled
In answer to your question, yes the NPCs are dangerous, the players even more so.
This pic just about sums up the various areas of Eve, it won't require eye/ear/brain bleach either
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Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 15:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quarra Shepard wrote:I wast aware that Jovian systems or encounters were possible in Eve. So pretty much every WH is dangerous with players or NPC's?
Jovians not so much. The danger is not in the wormhole, or in the wormhole systems. It's the mechanics of wormholes. A wormhole system does not have gates and the only way to get in (our out) is through a wormhole. Wormholes will close after a certain amount of time or if a certain amount of mass (ships) traveled through. A wormhole is only warpable when you have a bookmark or if you scanned it with probes. So, if it closes and you don't have scan probes with you, bad luck for you.
Local chat in wormhole systems is in delayed mode. So, you don't know who is in the same system with you. You're only tool to see if you are alone or not is directional scanner. Ofcourse, if someone is cloaked you will not see them on d-scan. Since wspace is -1.0 security, there is no concord to save you from attackers. Usually, every other player you encounter is wspace will shoot you on sight and then call his friends to shoot you to. Be prepared :)
NPC's in wspace (sleepers) are generally smarter then other NPCs, and use more types of ECM such as neuts, but soloable in lower class wh systems. |
Cara Forelli
End-of-Line Sky Syndicate
322
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 15:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wormhole people are people too. They are just people that are likely to kill you first and talk later.
If you're interested I would encourage you to poke your head in with a cheap ship and see what it's all about. You're likely to die, so be prepared for that:
1. Update clone 2. Bring probes (fly a heron, magnate, imicus, or probe) 3. Always bookmark both sides of the wormhole (once you warp away you need a way to get back quickly!)
Don't warp to the sites as the NPCs will murder a scanning frigate (ore sites and data/relic have npcs as well!). If a player murders you, say hello and perhaps they'll give you some tips (private convo - using local in WH space is a no no).
I recently wrote up a Wormholes 101 post which has plenty of info if you are interested in WH diving. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
Forest Archer
Explorer Corps Disavowed.
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
While the previous posts are good if you have a specific question I will be happy to talk in depth with you about being a while dweller and having interactions with wh's on multiple levels since their introduction. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5212
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quarra Shepard wrote:I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?
This is a risky game. Just undocking can get you dead.
The people who tell you to stay out of WH space are not the type of people that should be giving advice. Like anything else in the game it just requires knowledge to partake in any particular mechanic.
Knowledge gained painfully by just jumping on in ( can be fun) or hooking up with someone that can show you the ropes.
As mentioned above the WH forum is a good place to start.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
929
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quarra Shepard wrote:I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?
Step one is learn to scan. If you can't find the way in you will never find the way out. Step two is try and always have probes so you can find a new way out if needed. Step 3 is get a passive tanked drake (sleeper often neut) google the site u want to run (for triggers) Step 4 dscan every 3-5 seconds. Loot and most importantly salvage everything (the melted nano ribbon are salvage). As a new player i lost ships but made a billion in my 1st month doing wormholes. (i did the scanning /looting/ salvaging for the first few weeks) Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
311
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm going to throw my opinion into this mesh too:
1. WH's are not the huge isk / hour that some folk feel they are (with a few notable exceptions). A. Exception: You live in a C5 or C6 wormhole and run capital escalations. B. Exception: You find an awesome for PI, and train 2-3 accounts worth of alts to farm the PI. (There are some impressive C1 holes for this)
I'd like to also elaborate on that: I live in a C2. When I run solo C2 sites, not including POS fuel expense from living in the wormhole, I can make substantially more isk safer running L4 missions. Even when I form a fleet and farm our static we can make more isk / hour independantly running L4s. The teamwork, risk, and interesting fights that happen in wormholes is what keeps me there.
For a daytripper (i.e. you don't live in a wh): If you solo daytrip, your better off planning like you're going to do low null sites, and just jumping into WH's you scan down on the way to your destination. Planning to make money on the WH's that spawn in K-space is not optimal. Day tripping is tough, because you never know whether you're going to find a C1 or a C5 until you're at the entrance of the WH. C2 sites are going to be hard for a new player to solo (combat wise).
2. You can make decent money in a C1 - C4. A. If you live in a C2 or C4 - you make your money 'farming' your static. I.E. you go in, try to make sure no-ones home, and run sites while spastically checking D-scan. B. If you have a low / null C3 (static wh for that wormhole) you could make money by running into low / null doing exploration and running sites. With a Null exit logisitcs can become painful (in my opinion).
3. WH's are dangerous. Because of their residents, and because of the timing and capabilities of the NPCs. I've seen plenty of new explorers warp to our data site in an imicus because they don't realize there's a sleeper spawn waiting for them. They generally leave in their pod if they remembered to bookmark the WH exit. The NPCs are tough, and require either good planning or teamwork. Preferrably both. WH residents are devious and will ancher bubbles, camp system exits, log off and wait for you to attack their miner (then log back in), or spend days cloaked in your system learning your habits and gank a transport ship. WH's are a patience game; a long con.
4. Your life blood is scanning, bookmarks, and warping to other folk in fleet - if you happen to be out of corp. Without a robust set of bookmarks - life is hard.
All that aside, I strongly recommend you jump into WH life. It's the most fun I've had in EvE. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
521
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 04:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Check out this subforum and feel free to start asking questions on threads etc. Usually, so long as you have checked the search function and the stickied threads first people are relatively helpful and always happy to help a new player out.
Alternatively, dive right in, if you lose your ship and pod, find out who did it and private convo them. Most people are happy to talk and answer questions (based on previous experience).
One of the most important things you can do in W-Space is bookmark both sides of the hole. Never forget to do that. Another thing is always carry the following:
- A probe launcher. - Two sets of probes. (This is because if you're scanning and you DC, sometimes the probes tend to disappear completely). - A cloak. Always handy to have one of these.
What with the addition of Mobile Depots in this game, this makes it incrediably easy to refit in space and you should never be left without the ability to scan yourself out. There is no excuse for people to be lost in WH's with that deployable in game.
Get good at scanning. This means train the scanning skills up and get used to using the probe scanner and you'll be able to scan down sigs with relative ease.
As previously stated, it's not the wormholes that are dangerous it's the wormhole inhabbitants who sometimes you don't know are there until it is too late. However that being said you will want to know what type of hole you are in as soon as possible. What class is the hole? (C1-C6) and does it have any effects? (For example taking an armour ship into a Pulsar will reduce your armour tank). So whilst it is the inhabbitants that are the problem, knowing your surrounding is a big thing. There are several sites that you can place the J number into such as Wormhol.es (currently there might be an issue with this site going offline soon), or using tripwire.
Head on over to the Wormhole Subforum (linked above) and check it out.
You also might want to check out some of the following posts too:
FAQ for Wormholes. (read this). Wormhole Fundamentals by Adhocracy. The Complete Unknown. Slightly outdated (by two expansions) but still useful in some aspects. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Ne'Rubis Tanthalas
The Red Circle Inc.
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote: -Daytripping, take a T1 Battlecruiser and go murder some sleepers (I would only attempt this in a c1/c2, although a drake will probably handle some c3 sites)
Some C5 data sites can be cleared in a properly fit drake |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1258
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 12:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
they are fun places to be not all wormholes are the same, they can have an effect that changes how your ship performs what works well in one can be terrible in another
if you don't chat, you don't get listed on 'local' your scanning skills are important
read this
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
511
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wormholes are dangerous for a new player because there are several major points where a single mistake can strand you in them forever, most of them tied to forgetting to set a book-mark, and the only way to get out once you've made that mistake is to be podded.
It's not as big a deal for more experienced players because:
1. They're in the habit of setting bookmarks all the time, everywhere, on everything. If they screw up and can't find their exit it's usually less of a big deal to take another exit and just fly the bajillion jumps back to the system they came from in k-space (something that will quite frequently get a new player killed/podded even if they do have another k-space exit marked).
2. They tend to have the resources that getting podded is more of a "laugh at self because self is stupid, buy new implants, proceed" than the absolutely devastating hit to total resources that implants/clone update can be to someone in the age-range that this forum is pointed at.
3. They are much more used to the fact that everything in Eve is PvP, so w-space is just a minor jump in direct aggression, where for a 3-month character hopping in from high-sec it's a major change in mechanics (no free warp-to points, warp bubbles allowed, NPCs are legitimately dangerous, no local channel, no CONCORD, no sec-status factor in player decisions). And it's even worse if you're a player that went to the shallow end of the pool (Sov 0.0) pvp-wise early in your career and are used to a near-absolute level of safety everywhere but clearly defined areas and the ability to call for backup.
4. They actually have the SP-skills and out-of-game skills to field boats capable of extracting a meaningful profit from w-space (new players CAN run w-space sites, but this is one of the few situations where the difference between a IV and a V in a skill can actually be the difference between profit and ignominious death).
That said, if you are willing to take basically the PvP approach to wormholes (cheap clone, cheap ship, don't care) wormhole diving is pretty entertaining even if you can't usually do anything profitable in there. Give it a go, just pay extra attention to rule #1 in there. |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 11:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Is it worth it? Definitely yes. You can achieve about twice isk/hr in wh than in nullsec (200M/hr/char). You can have your own planets for PI with yield like in best nullsec (-1.0 truesec). You can place as many POS as you can afford for various purposes in your system. You can completely shut off all connections to your systems and farm in safety.
You have to scan your chain to Hi-sec often.
Where to start study? http://eve-survival.org/ search for anmaly dps output and do some fits to withstand this dps.
when you are ready to go you can buy your first wormhole on wormholesales.com it is much much faster than looking for empty hole yourself and mere 500M should be made back in a week when hole is properly utilised |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2568
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
One thing to note is that there is no entry-level PVE content in wormholes. The easiest sites are on par with or a little tougher than level 3 security missions - and that's just the NPCs. Hostile players are much more dangerous again.
Once you can afford to lose a battlecruiser, however, I highly recommend you jump clone into a cheap clone, fit out a battlecruiser with a standard probe, and scan down a wormhole and just explore. Accept that the clone and BC you are taking into the hole are lost, and just see what you can find.
Bonus points if you announce your presence in local in the WH in an annoying way, like typing the lyrics of "Call Me Maybe" into local. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Cara Forelli
End-of-Line Sky Syndicate
324
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Bonus points if you announce your presence in local in the WH in an annoying way, like typing the lyrics of "Call Me Maybe" into local.
There is no surer death.
But to be fair...bringing a drake into a site for 30 minutes amounts to approximately the same thing if anyone's home... www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2570
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Bonus points if you announce your presence in local in the WH in an annoying way, like typing the lyrics of "Call Me Maybe" into local. There is no surer death. But to be fair...bringing a drake into a site for 30 minutes amounts to approximately the same thing if anyone's home...
Hey, I just got here And this is cra-a-a-azy But I'm in your wormhole So fight me maybe?
(yes, I have done this once. Don't play EVE drunk.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
339
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Major fleet battles have been fought with the participants on both sides drunk :P Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
629
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wanna try out wormhole space?
Learn to scan.
Learn to scan.
LEARN TO SCAN.
And get a second monitor, slap your d-scanner on it, and USE IT.
Often. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
512
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 10:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Hey, I just got here And this is cra-a-a-azy But I'm in your wormhole So fight me maybe?
It's hard to scan down your low-sig teeee-three. I'm at your POS now so fight me maybe! |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2578
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 10:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Hey, I just got here And this is cra-a-a-azy But I'm in your wormhole So fight me maybe?
It's hard to scan down your low-sig teeee-three. I'm at your POS now so fight me maybe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lm1FL7gWl4
I win. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2587
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 23:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy
...that video...
please, euthanize the person that made it! Put them out of their misery. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
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