Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Criac
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 14:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tech II or Faction ammo for lvl4's in Raven
Is it worth it ?
Running this fit:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66362-Raven-PVE-Fit-Odyssey.html
DPS w/ Charges 888/1045 w/ Fury Missiles 729/858 w/ Navy 635/747 w/ Standard and Precision
Drone DPS 158 w/ 5*Hammerhead II 129 w/ 5*Valkerie II 126 w/ 2*Ogre II's (+1 backup in bay)
Fury Missiles look nice |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
654
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 14:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
carry both, they all have their uses. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|
Criac
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 15:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:carry both, they all have their uses.
care to expand on that ? |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
205
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Criac wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:carry both, they all have their uses. care to expand on that ?
I almost feel as if it would be easier to just look at the ammo stats... |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bring all of them. Here's graphs of damage output with different ammo types.
Graph 1: Effect of Signature Radius on Damage Output
Graph 2: Effect of Target Velocity on Damage Output
Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
769
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't use faction ammo for level IV's. They cut the value of a level IV mission down in the past year or two. So expensive ammo feels counter productive imo. I use T1 mostly, and just send that extra volley out when needed.
I know that time is money, and all that. I've never done the cost vs time maths on missions. I DO use faction ammo in a Tengu, when in null space. Time has a different value there, where exposure is an issue. The faster you can get in and out = less exposure to hostiles. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
493
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tech I Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
493
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Criac wrote: Drone DPS 158 w/ 5*Hammerhead II 129 w/ 5*Valkerie II 126 w/ 2*Ogre II's (+1 backup in bay)
Um... Yeah... That's noob mistake.
Use t2 sentries. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
244
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
On a Rigor/Flare rigged hull Precision missiles are fairly pointless, except you want to shot a lot of frigs with them(like in Buzz Kill), faction missiles will produce similar or better results on most cruiser and BC sized targets. If you just shoot BS sized targets, Fury missiles are very nice, but they are quite a bit less effective vs cruisers(especially elite ones), but reloading missile types during a mission costs you a lot of dps since you can't shoot stuff during reloads, so you have to chose carefully. The expedition would be if you to spend a lot of ISK on the T2 rigs, implants and 2-3 RF or Domination painters with very good skills, where you can make Fury Missiles also work just as good as faction ones vs most Cruisers and BCs.
Are they worth it? Depends if you can save volleys with them, finish L4s quicker and got a good LP conversion rate, most of the time yeah they are. If you don't save volleys with them, it is just lost isk on the way. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
670
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Criac wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:carry both, they all have their uses. care to expand on that ?
not particularly. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25013
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:carry both, they all have their uses. This.
Use the T2 ammo on the lower class ships and switch to Faction ammo for the larger class ships. You'll definitely complete the missions a lot faster.
Funny how players keep saying time is money, best to blitz, etc but when it comes to munitions, it seems they mostly use T1 ammo which is putting out the lowest amount of DPS available.
DMC
Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Criac
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thanks for the helpful responses , I never knew faction was better against smaller ships
I have been shooting guns for too long |
stoicfaux
4470
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Criac wrote:Thanks for the helpful responses , I never knew faction was better against smaller ships I have been shooting guns for too long If we take T1 as the baseline: T1: 100% damage, 100% Ev, 100% Er, 100% range Precision: 100% damage, 120% Ev, 90% Er, 50% range CN: 115% damage, 100% Ev, 100% Er, 100% range Fury: 140% damage, 84% Ev, 172% Er, 75% range
Ev == missile explosion velocity, higher is better Er == missile explosion radius, lower is better
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Sugar.
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 00:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
sry for derailing the thread abit, but what did u use for these graphs. |
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
201
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 02:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pretty much t1/t1 here. Cost + range. Torps, other than ever loading torps onto a raven/cnr, t2/t2, but cnr mission runner t1/t1 is often my choice. But I'm not overly rushed to missions end, I don't grind them, other ways to make ISK if I need it without falling to sleep at my keyboard. Oh and that counting.. ehhh, let it ride, it's cheap. GÇö+¬GÇö |
Golem Master
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
I know a mision runer ,and for him eve its like the second job He use t1 amo for years never changed to T2 bcoz was to expensive.
Well i just gave him 10k for each dmg tipe i run with a golem and he run with 2CNR
And after 1day he decide and tell me :
I was to fking gready to use t2 amo but now i finish the misions faster and spend half amo per mision and got more dps .
Well my friend just buy 10k of each dmg tipe and you will know for sure if its worthed or not. |
1c3crysta1
Unknown in the unknown The Autonomy
25
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 08:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:sry for derailing the thread abit, but what did u use for these graphs.
Those graphs comes from Pyfa, a ship fitting program. Don't have any links avaliable, but that shouldn't be to hard to find through google. |
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
203
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 08:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Golem Master wrote:Well my friend just buy 10k of each dmg tipe and you will know for sure if its worthed or not. You shoot them from max range, no need for additional flight time fits, fit damage mods.
GÇö+¬GÇö |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Sugar.
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:sry for derailing the thread abit, but what did u use for these graphs. Those graphs comes from Pyfa, a ship fitting program. Don't have any links avaliable, but that shouldn't be to hard to find through google.
thx im using evehq it has a damage calculation which is close but still different enough so that yours is giving the better info in this case |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
314
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how players keep saying time is money, best to blitz, etc but when it comes to munitions, it seems they mostly use T1 ammo which is putting out the lowest amount of DPS available.
That's quite simple. If switching to a higher DPS ammo increases your income by 10 million an hour, but increases your ammo cost by 11 million per hour, the higher DPS ammo is a bad idea. The mission runners understand that. But they don't run the numbers themselves, they rely on other people who say the ammo is too expensive instead of thinking for themselves.
|
|
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Sugar.
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Funny how players keep saying time is money, best to blitz, etc but when it comes to munitions, it seems they mostly use T1 ammo which is putting out the lowest amount of DPS available.
That's quite simple. If switching to a higher DPS ammo increases your income by 10 million an hour, but increases your ammo cost by 11 million per hour, the higher DPS ammo is a bad idea. The mission runners understand that. But they don't run the numbers themselves, they rely on other people who say the ammo is too expensive instead of thinking for themselves.
actually im currently comparing them as i started relatively early to use t2 ammo in missions. Applied damage between 2 equally fitted raven navies. This was the result short t1 are better for frigs, t2 are on equal terms with cruisers and much better at everything bigger. Actually i didnt save the damage graph but on a bs i get around 30 to 40% more damage out of furies. For me that seals the deal to stay with t2 cruise, they may be more expansive but it clears the room alot faster.
EDIT: The pic shows the applied damage for 150m sig radius and the targeted speed to be between 0 and 500. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 13:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Depends. If you have your own cruise missile BPO and make your own ammo, and have a lot of LP with a Caldari NPC corp; then I would say use faction ammo. The only T2 cruise missile ammo I would use is the precision, and that is only for the smaller targets when your drones have gone ka-boom because of bad drone management. |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Sugar.
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 14:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Depends. If you have your own cruise missile BPO and make your own ammo, and have a lot of LP with a Caldari NPC corp; then I would say use faction ammo. The only T2 cruise missile ammo I would use is the precision, and that is only for the smaller targets when your drones have gone ka-boom because of bad drone management.
sry but no, if u have lp or buy it on market the cost is the same. t1 ammo is around 100 isk per missile, t2 around 550 per missile faction 1700 per missile. Summa Summarum t1 is cheaper but u get less damage for cruiser upwards. Which means on my raven navy i could probably not alpha a t1 bc of the field which would mean i need a 2nd salvo. Which means i spend double the missiles on one target and double the time on one target. Faction Cruise actually do more damage at anything below bc, equal on bc to fury and do less at bs sized targets. But they cost 3 times the money of fury and u still need the same amount of salvos to kill a cruiser. |
Ole' McDolan
Vastly Intellectual Tall Tax Union
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 19:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
dont know if it will still help you or if you already made up your mind, but I also use Raven for L4 missions and I use almost exclusively fury missiles. I kill the smaller stuff with hob 2's.
But if there is a mission when there are a lot of smaller ships that may pose significant threat (like jammers or scrambles) I will pack some precision missiles to get rid of them fast.
But I also did not calculate if it is actually worth it ISK/hour wise, simply because in order to test that I would probably have to run a very long test to have at least some accuracy in the results due to the great amount of different missions. Not to mention that loot and salvage price will also play a big factor in that, so luck would be involved as well. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 19:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Depends. If you have your own cruise missile BPO and make your own ammo, and have a lot of LP with a Caldari NPC corp; then I would say use faction ammo. The only T2 cruise missile ammo I would use is the precision, and that is only for the smaller targets when your drones have gone ka-boom because of bad drone management. sry but no, if u have lp or buy it on market the cost is the same. t1 ammo is around 100 isk per missile, t2 around 550 per missile faction 1700 per missile. Summa Summarum t1 is cheaper but u get less damage for cruiser upwards. Which means on my raven navy i could probably not alpha a t1 bc of the field which would mean i need a 2nd salvo. Which means i spend double the missiles on one target and double the time on one target. Faction Cruise actually do more damage at anything below bc, equal on bc to fury and do less at bs sized targets. But they cost 3 times the money of fury and u still need the same amount of salvos to kill a cruiser.
I make my own ammo using materials gained from reprocessing mods I have looted from salvaging mission sites over time. Producing 20000 T1 missiles costs me about 3300 isk with my skills and standings. I can then use the crap-ton of LP I have accumulated to convert those into faction ammo. The cost is relatively cheap in my opinion. Better than buying it on market. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
379
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 01:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Depends. If you have your own cruise missile BPO and make your own ammo, and have a lot of LP with a Caldari NPC corp; then I would say use faction ammo. The only T2 cruise missile ammo I would use is the precision, and that is only for the smaller targets when your drones have gone ka-boom because of bad drone management. sry but no, if u have lp or buy it on market the cost is the same. t1 ammo is around 100 isk per missile, t2 around 550 per missile faction 1700 per missile. Summa Summarum t1 is cheaper but u get less damage for cruiser upwards. Which means on my raven navy i could probably not alpha a t1 bc of the field which would mean i need a 2nd salvo. Which means i spend double the missiles on one target and double the time on one target. Faction Cruise actually do more damage at anything below bc, equal on bc to fury and do less at bs sized targets. But they cost 3 times the money of fury and u still need the same amount of salvos to kill a cruiser. I make my own ammo using materials gained from reprocessing mods I have looted from salvaging mission sites over time. Producing 20000 T1 missiles costs me about 3300 isk with my skills and standings. I can then use the crap-ton of LP I have accumulated to convert those into faction ammo. The cost is relatively cheap in my opinion. Better than buying it on market. Minerals you mine aren't free.
You could just as easily sell the faction missiles you're making for 1700 each and buy 3 times as many Fury missiles at 550 each. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yes, I could. However, that would entail me going all the way to highsec to buy from one of the market hubs. I just can't be bothered to do that. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |