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Ben ReVerT
Vengance Inc. Dirt Nap Squad.
11
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Players/characters after a certain ingame age should not be allowed to "hide" in NPC corps. I think the NPC corps should be a starting ground for players but not a home for players to live and stay in for years.
Players use this to their advantage making them immune for all sorts of PvP aspects. Some use this to their advantage I.E sitting in Jita stealing loot from other players without reprecussions.
I think to fix this, their should either be two types of NPC corps.
One, that is immune from war decs, for the newer players to get a feel for the game allow them freedom to roam and do as they please.
Two, one that isnt immune from war decs, this one would be for players that are over a cetain age, say 6 months of active clone time.
Open to ideas/feedback. |
Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys AAA Citizens
68
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5020
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Give me a war dec system that makes sense and then, MAYBE, I would consider your idea. . |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1328
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote: Players use this to their advantage making them immune for all sorts of PvP aspects. Some use this to their advantage I.E sitting in Jita stealing loot from other players without reprecussions.
being in an NPC corp protects u from war decs...nothing else. and the price they pay for that is 11% tax, no outgoing decs, no corp structure, and the most annoying corp chat in the game.
they are subject to ALL other forms of PvP just like everyone else. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
140
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
NPC corps should war-dec each other once a year, because that would be hilarious. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
369
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, the Starting Ground are the School NPC Corps. So that's covered. The other NPC corps are there to escape the general stupidity, ignorance, bullying and other lesser aspects of the human mind. No need to take that away from the people.
Besides, are you afraid of engaging pilots in NPC corps with Duells or by tricking people into attacking you? Or you need the wardec as a safety net so that you can just shoot without thinking? That's what players abuse wardecs to their advantage. |
Ix Method
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
126
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Put them at war with the opposing FW corps so they have Navy NPCs protecting them and just set it going. Motsu would suddenly have 3000 in local, I'd enjoy that. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote:Players/characters after a certain ingame age should not be allowed to "hide" in NPC corps. I think the NPC corps should be a starting ground for players but not a home for players to live and stay in for years.
Players use this to their advantage making them immune for all sorts of PvP aspects. Some use this to their advantage I.E sitting in Jita stealing loot from other players without reprecussions. Wardeccer tears = fourth best tears.
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sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
20
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote:Players use this to their advantage making them immune for all sorts of PvP aspects. Some use this to their advantage I.E sitting in Jita stealing loot from other players without reprecussions
suiciding? duelling? low sec ganking? null sec ganking?
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1990
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP has already stated quite flatly that they cannot force people out of NPC corps, nor are they willing to try.
Go read the CSM8 Winter Summit minutes. They talk about this exact issue, and none of it's even NDA'd. |
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stoicfaux
4467
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote:Players use this to their advantage making them immune for all sorts of PvP aspects. Some use this to their advantage I.E sitting in Jita stealing loot from other players without reprecussions. People in PC corps can sit in Jita stealing loot from other players without repercussions while being completely safe from PvP.
Either you need a better example/scenario to justify your idea, or you need to answer the question: why is it okay for people in player corps to sit in Jita but not for players in NPC corps? WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1990
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Who's "stealing loot"? If it's in a wreck, it's fair game. No stealing involved. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
182
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:Ben ReVerT wrote:Players/characters after a certain ingame age should not be allowed to "hide" in NPC corps. I think the NPC corps should be a starting ground for players but not a home for players to live and stay in for years.
Players use this to their advantage making them immune for all sorts of PvP aspects. Some use this to their advantage I.E sitting in Jita stealing loot from other players without reprecussions. Wardeccer tears = fourth best tears.
Yea, I see those hisec km's posted in local, like they've accomplished something, and all I can think is how pathetic is that.
hisec km == lamer |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1257
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Posted - 2014.04.11 18:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec.
He already has that. You can aggress anyone at anytime, at any location.
What he wants is ganking without concord intervention, but doesn't have the common decency to admit it.
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Ben ReVerT
Vengance Inc. Dirt Nap Squad.
11
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec. He already has that. You can aggress anyone at anytime, at any location. What he wants is ganking without concord intervention, but doesn't have the common decency to admit it.
Not at all, i freely gank people with concord shooting me, i dont care.
I want to be able to war dec people and not have them run away to a NPC corp to escape from it. |
Rendiff
Funk Soul Brothers Bloodline.
66
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Posted - 2014.04.11 23:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nam Dnilb wrote:NPC corps should war-dec each other once a year, because that would be hilarious.
This ^ |
PrettyMuch Always Right
University of Caille Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2014.04.11 23:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec. He already has that. You can aggress anyone at anytime, at any location. What he wants is ganking without concord intervention, but doesn't have the common decency to admit it. Not at all, i freely gank people with concord shooting me, i dont care. I want to be able to war dec people and not have them run away to a NPC corp to escape from it. I want to be able to play in high-sec with CONCORD still protecting me.
No one is right or wrong here, it comes down to consensus. Most players - from carebears to gankers to nullbears to elite PVPers - enjoy knowing that they have this option if **** ever hits the fan.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
408
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec. He already has that. You can aggress anyone at anytime, at any location. What he wants is ganking without concord intervention, but doesn't have the common decency to admit it. Not at all, i freely gank people with concord shooting me, i dont care. I want to be able to war dec people and not have them run away to a NPC corp to escape from it.
First of all you dec the corp not the players. This is ccp's stance on this.
Based on that if you war dec has scared players to leave corp and join NPC....gratz...you won the war. You caused massive internal failscade. This is how most corps/alliances "die" in this game now. You break them until most leave or threatens it, leadership says screw it and the they move on to other things and leave the placeholder in the corp to keep the name.
And lastly...if you don' tike the setup find a corp that will fight back and dec it. I am sure any major alliances empire based corps would love to be decced by you. I am sure they would even undock for you and engage even. I know....its only fun when you jump a bear with 6 ships. Its not fun when the its your 6 ships jumped by 20 blobbers. Karma is a mofo when it comes full circle ain't it. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
183
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Posted - 2014.04.12 20:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ben ReVerT wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec. He already has that. You can aggress anyone at anytime, at any location. What he wants is ganking without concord intervention, but doesn't have the common decency to admit it. Not at all, i freely gank people with concord shooting me, i dont care. I want to be able to war dec people and not have them run away to a NPC corp to escape from it.
To pansy to come to low sec? Oh, wait, the answer is right here. |
Ben ReVerT
Vengance Inc. Dirt Nap Squad.
12
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Posted - 2014.04.12 23:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Ben ReVerT wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Every should be aible to play as they want. What you just basically want is a free ticket to kill every pilot in highsec. He already has that. You can aggress anyone at anytime, at any location. What he wants is ganking without concord intervention, but doesn't have the common decency to admit it. Not at all, i freely gank people with concord shooting me, i dont care. I want to be able to war dec people and not have them run away to a NPC corp to escape from it. To pansy to come to low sec? Oh, wait, the answer is right here.
And you expect the people you want to war dec to go to low sec?
Thats what i thought. |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2006
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Posted - 2014.04.12 23:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm not sure people in lowsec actually use the wardec system. |
nia starstryder
Blitzkrieg.
12
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Posted - 2014.04.13 01:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm a merchant, pure and simple. I use the market of skill books to pay for my plexes. A while back my corp was wardeced. a second corp, pure mercenaries jumped into the fray. These guys do NOT fight pvp normally. what they do is set outside one of the hubs and shoot at anything that is red to them, which is a lot. They don't fight fair battles, as they have six of so ships that attack as one. IF anything comes in they cant handle, they dock and remain docked as long as its outside the station. This means merchants can not leave the station.
The only way to get around them is to leave your corp until they stop attacking your corp.
What you are saying is that you want to make it where merchants can no exist. You are saying that people that don't play your way cant play the game.
THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG. I have the right to play the game the way I want to and you cant stop it. Get over yourself. IF your such a scardy cat that you cant face righting things that can actually hurt you, you don't deserve the easy kills. |
Dalto Bane
V I R I I Ineluctable.
64
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 for OP's suggestion. NPC corps loopholes have been abused for far too long. If not OP's suggestion, perhaps have certain NPC Corps be in "forever" wars against each other, or maybe give me an option to declare war on an individual, no matter their corp affiliation, to prevent dropping Corps to dodge wardecs. Another solution is to raise tax to something like 50%. "Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep." |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
362
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nam Dnilb wrote:NPC corps should war-dec each other once a year, because that would be hilarious.
I would take this idea a step further.
All players start in a starter corp appropriate to their chosen faction. So, if I start an Amarr pilot, he is automatically a member of either Hedion University, Imperial Academy, or Royal Amarr Institute.
After 3 months in the starter corp, players are forced to pay the 11% tax so long as they remain in that corp.
After six months in the starter corp, they are automatically kicked to another NPC corp. The player gets to choose which NPC corp to join. So, for our Amarr player, he can choose from any of the many NPC corporations. Or, he can join a player corporation. A player could, of course, choose to join another corp at any time (he doesn't have to wait six months to leave the starter corp).
All NPC corp members get 1 share of stock in the first non-starter NPC corp they join. Stock in NPC corporations takes the form of actual in game certificates, that can be transported in ships and destroyed (like plex). NPC stock can be bought and sold on the market. Trial accounts do not get shares of stock.
So, our hypothetical Amarr player decides to join Carthum Conglomerate. He earns one share of Carthum Conglomerate stock. If he then switches over to Viziam, he does not earn Viziam stock, but he could purchase Viziam stock on the market, or he could trade his Carthum stock to another player for some Viziam stock. If he joins a player corporation, he retains his Carthum Conglomerate stock, unless he decides to sell or trade it.
Shareholders can vote on which opposing NPC corps that corporation should go to war with for the next month. Each share of stock gets one vote. Eligible targets for the war dec follow factional warfare lines. So, our shareholders can declare war on any Minmatar or Gallente NPC corp. Faction navies/police will not get involved in these inter-corporation wars.
All non-starter NPC corporations have a base tax rate of 50% - unless the have at least one active war - in which case it lowers to 25%. All NPC war decs automatically last at least one week. Shareholders vote at the end of each month for who the corp should go to war with the next month, and which week it should begin. The shareholders could choose to not declare war, but then they suffer 50% tax rates.
At the end of each month, NPC corporations refund 40% of the base tax amount on a per share basis to all shareholders with active accounts. Shareholders with active accounts in the corp for the entire month earn an additional 20% of the base tax amount back, on a per share basis.
For each faction, the corp with the most damage done to war targets gets an additional 40% tax paid back to shareholders with active accounts in the corporation. Thus, for that corp, all the taxes collected are paid back to shareholders.
For example, assume Carthum Conglomerate taxes 1 billion ISK this month. Carthum pays back 400 million on a per share basis to all active players who own shares.
Carthum pays an additional 200 million, on a per share basis, to all active shareholder members of Carthum for that entire month (i.e. if I own Carthum stock but am a member of Viziam, I do not get any from this pot).
Carthum, being well-organized and very active, does more damage to other corporations than any other Amarr corporation. Carthum shareholders, who are also members for that entire month, therefore earn another 400 million divided on a per share basis.
Members of NPC corps cannot attack members of their own corporation in high security space without incurring the wrath of Concord, absent duel situations.
Actions against fellow corp members also results in loss of standings towards that corporation, no matter what part of space in which this action occurs.
Members gain standings for positive actions on behalf of their corporation. Thus, players earn a corporation standings bonus for each war target they kill, based upon the killboard value of the target (i.e. killing a war target freighter is worth more than killing a T1 frigate).
Corp members also earn an extra 5% standings on missions they run for their parent corporation.
All other war dec mechanics are the same as for player corporations (e.g. flagging for neutral logistics assistance).
I don't know whether anything like this has been proposed before, and there may be exploits I have not foreseen (e.g. the kinds of things Mynna would spot). Please point those out to me and provide refinements as you see fit. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Tragot Gomndor
Krautz WH Exploration and Production Cerberus Unleashed
30
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Posted - 2014.04.13 08:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
tl;dr most posts... but hey... i have an idea...
we do that second grade npc corp thing, but they still belong to a faction, like amarr or caldari, and when you wardec them, you actually wardec the whole npc faction, disallowing you to dock in all of their stations in empire including jita and amarr...
this even would make sense, cuz i dont think that Jamyl the first would be pleasent, if you lowlife capsuleer would actually wardec one of her belongings... she would come and judgement your face...
bad idea, like 99% of this forum ^^ why i am here then??? cuz i wait for some stuff from CCP Fozzy and CCP UsedToPlayEve :D 0.0 = GOONS = SAAAMMMMEEE!!!!1111222 |
Iudicium Vastus
Incognito Holdings and Savings
256
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Posted - 2014.04.13 09:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:+1 for OP's suggestion. NPC corps loopholes have been abused for far too long. If not OP's suggestion, perhaps have certain NPC Corps be in "forever" wars against each other, or maybe give me an option to declare war on an individual, no matter their corp affiliation, to prevent dropping Corps to dodge wardecs. Another solution is to raise tax to something like 50%.
Yeah, because that won't be abused to high hell. As stated firmly by CCP in previous times when wardec changes are asked, you wardec a corp, not the players. Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
374
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Posted - 2014.04.13 10:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:+1 for OP's suggestion. NPC corps loopholes have been abused for far too long. If not OP's suggestion, perhaps have certain NPC Corps be in "forever" wars against each other, or maybe give me an option to declare war on an individual, no matter their corp affiliation, to prevent dropping Corps to dodge wardecs. Another solution is to raise tax to something like 50%.
And because of people like you, NPC corps exist and should continue to exist in their current way. If you want NPC corps at war, go to FW; if you want to have high taxes, join a communist PC.
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1270
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Posted - 2014.04.13 11:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
The right way to deal with this is to have a base tax rate of 10% for npc corps that increases by 1% for every additional week of player retention. This encourages players to leave and spread their wings within the eve universe and join or form their own corps, also it also allows people like recruiters to stay within the npc corps forever as long as they are not economically active (mission rewards, rat bounties etc).
The second a character leaves a player corp however they should be put in a special class of npc corp that is war deccable and has a fixed tax rate of 10% forever.
Characters can of course join player corps to escape war decs or make their own corps etc as normal as I imagine war-deccable npc corps would be under permanent war dec.
Being at war is an important part of eve online but hiding out in npc corps is an abuse of the game mechanics, hence the need to have some pressure to leave over time. Likewise an NPC corp that is only open to people that have left their starter corp, joined a player corporation then have left the said corporation but is wardeccable in the normal way ensures that seasoned players cannot escape the threat of war by jumping ship and leaving a corp that is under war-dec.
I also favor another idea in which all NPC corps are under perma-wardec from known NPC enemies such as rival corps from a different empire as per their npc standings etc. This would ensure that new characters are under some measure of protection in starter systems as they will be surrounded by seasoned veterans and they would also be aware of combat going in within the background in game etc.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
374
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 12:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
And which problems does this solve?
Cyno alts stay in the NPC corps regardless of taxes or war. Ganking pilots will also stay in NPC corps regardless of taxes and wars. The only people you drive out of the game and annoy them are as follows: You drive mission runners, miners and other PVEers out of the NPC corp into player corps which inherit the wardec from the NPC corp. You also punish haulers who want to play the game, but cannot because they are under constant wardecs (not including those who are in 00 alliances). You drive mission runners, miners and other PVEers into Player Corps which can be wardeced all the time to grief them, so no escape of wardecs in all cases, no playing for players in all cases, no logging in and no continuing of the subscription.
Why should it not possible to leave the ship? First of, there are dozens of not hundreds of people abusing NPC corps for ganking activities, who are in NPC corps to avoid war decs for their main player corps. this is abuse of game mechanics, not leaving a corp that gets wardecd for no reason. It is also not like you are asked to participate in a war or are a member in a corp to participate in a fight that you neither want to fight nor have signed up for one you cannot win. Sitting in station is lovely for 00 dwellers, because they don't know what else to do with their time, but not everyone aspires this kind of game play.
So, whatever you propose, it never hurts those who really abuse NPC corps nor those who simply don't care; it only annoys and drives those out of the game who actually play the game. Good plan. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
408
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 14:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:And which problems does this solve?
Cyno alts stay in the NPC corps regardless of taxes or war. Ganking pilots will also stay in NPC corps regardless of taxes and wars. The only people you drive out of the game and annoy them are as follows: You drive mission runners, miners and other PVEers out of the NPC corp into player corps which inherit the wardec from the NPC corp. You also punish haulers who want to play the game, but cannot because they are under constant wardecs (not including those who are in 00 alliances). You drive mission runners, miners and other PVEers into Player Corps which can be wardeced all the time to grief them, so no escape of wardecs in all cases, no playing for players in all cases, no logging in and no continuing of the subscription.
Why should it not possible to leave the ship? First of, there are dozens of not hundreds of people abusing NPC corps for ganking activities, who are in NPC corps to avoid war decs for their main player corps. this is abuse of game mechanics, not leaving a corp that gets wardecd for no reason. It is also not like you are asked to participate in a war or are a member in a corp to participate in a fight that you neither want to fight nor have signed up for one you cannot win. Sitting in station is lovely for 00 dwellers, because they don't know what else to do with their time, but not everyone aspires this kind of game play.
So, whatever you propose, it never hurts those who really abuse NPC corps nor those who simply don't care; it only annoys and drives those out of the game who actually play the game. Good plan.
This basically.
Like it or hate it, a key ingredient for a successful mmo is you have to provide some room to the bears. PVE is an expected component of an mmo. Generally in a mmo here are your server population rankings
1. PVE 2. PVP 3. Roleplay
Yay pvp....it beats out role-play. The servers that only see population spikes when you get really bored (and/or drunk) and you figure wtf, lets go play with some neckbeards' heads. And even that fun wears off, so back to the low numbers they go lol.
Also in the big picture I don't see bears avoiding pvp in empire as all that bad. If these people would wander out to 0.0 they'd empire bears are just doing the same crap many "real" player corp members do. Don't know how many 0.0 roams saw peeps safe up'ed in POS. As a commandment of 0.0 tends to be thou shall not pvp in pve fit ships.
And you get the null bears who never quite seem to make ops/roams unless you put a gun to their head, in game ofc. Either the threat of be on cta or else or as I have seen the flat out 100% corp tax as an oh so subtle hint to get on the damn op running for the night.
Gank or go 0.0. That bloodthirsty I'd say NBSI 0.0. More targets than you can shake a stick at. And you'd learn to appreciate the bears more. I like bears, they bought many of my faction drops to include an officer spawn drop I had once. PVE oriented fitting as it be a waste on a pvp ship that could go boom. And offered nothing much over t2. Bear had the isk, bear had me 1 bill richer era quick....they were okay in my book.
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