Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 15:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not making a judgement -- just trying to understand how it improves the Eve economy. Is it a way to control the amount of overall isk, or is there an advantage to better controlling the source of minerals? Is it a reaction to the MTU encouraging too much salvaging?
p.s. I'm basing this assumption on the loot refining changes coming this summer, nerfing loot drops in past releases, and dev's saying that blitzing missions is the best approach for Lvl 4's. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
205
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't know why CCP would want to prevent you from mining with guns |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mineral compression via module refining hampers their ability to introduce new modules (see bastion module) and is broken such that a feature of the game (and rorquals specialize in), ore compression, is not used. |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
The reason why CCP is nerfing reprocessing is because of a common practice used for capital ship manufacturing that is called "Mineral Compression." By manufaccturing certain modules, you can "compress" a very large volume of minerals into a fairly small space with relatively low losses.
Example: A 425mm Railgun 1 is 50 m3. The minerals used to manufacture it are 1,403.64 m3. So by manufacturing that item, you've compressed minerals with a 28:1 ratio. This means that 28 freighter loads of minerals will now fit into 1 freighter. The waste upon refining is very low if you research the Blueprint to a high ME level. CCP is trying to curb this practice and encourage people to compress ore instead. Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
Wulfgar WarHammer
Imperium Research Inc
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Am I the only person who read the title and thought the thread was going to be about salvaging? |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:Am I the only person who read the title and thought the thread was going to be about salvaging?
I also thought the same thing. It's not directly related, but instead it should be titled something like, "Why is CCP discouraging the reprocessing of salvage loot" Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
stoicfaux
4467
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:I don't know why CCP would want to prevent you from mining with guns I'm just going to point out that mining lasers require gun hardpoints to fit and that there are no gun hardpoints on mining barges and exhumers.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:I don't know why CCP would want to prevent you from mining with guns I'm just going to point out that mining lasers require gun hardpoints to fit and that there are no gun hardpoints on mining barges and exhumers.
Thankfully there are strip miners then. |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Strip miners don't require turret hardpoints. Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 01:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:Am I the only person who read the title and thought the thread was going to be about salvaging? The thread didn't end up there, but it was my intention. I currently salvage my missions - pick out the high value items that are worth more than the minerals -- and then refine the rest for the simplicity of selling it. I expect I'll shift towards blitzing for LP after the expansion.
The 425 railgun explanation seems plausible. I guess if mission salvaging becomes not worth the effort to most people we'll see the Noctis price nosedive (it's back down to the baseline price of last fall).
|
|
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1328
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 03:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
well, salvage is always in demand. you make rigs out of it. please stop mixing up salvage and loot.
also please don't forget that some loot has very high demand (meta 4 items). less looting in general means higher prices for those items GRRR Goons |
WaterMarks
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Another. Perosn who seems to think salvaging generates isk... -Fly Reckless- |
Chaotix Morwen
Ugly Duckling Inc
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 13:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dont understand why everybody is kicking up such a huge fuss over the reprocessing changes and missions. In my lvl 4's i pull about 2 mil in junk modules that i reprocess in each mission...so id "lose" 1 mil of value every mission. Such a massively devastating loss To me the changes that are coming are going to be great for the game all around, and its sad so many people cant look into the longer term ramifications it will bring. |
Adunh Slavy
1356
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 13:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:just trying to understand how it improves the Eve economy.
CCP's primary motivation seems to be an attempt to encourage more industrial activity in Null space. This has been one of their talking points for about two and a half, three years now. Getting more people into null space has been a theme even longer. I would argue that this particular motivation, on CCP's part, does not help or hurt the economy, so much as change the risk/reward landscape.
Where these changes do help the economy is by making the divisions of labor more distinct, and creates opportunities for specialization, from both a game design perspective, and also more subtlety, emergent entrepreneurial activity.
Regarding the division of labor: Shooting rats, be it from missions, ratting and what not, creates too many kinds of rewards. ISK, LP, Security and Faction Standings, Salvage and Minerals. As such, the value of any other activity that generates any one of those rewards is decreased. If shooting rats generates minerals, then the value of a miner is less. If a rat generates high end minerals in high sec, then the value of the transportation, of those more rare minerals from less secure space, is decreased.
For example, if a baker could bake shoes and bread, in the same oven, then the maker of cobbler work benches would have less opportunity, not too mention no need for the poor cobbler.
As to specialization, the game design perspective is easy to see, CCP made a reference to it in recent dev blogs, so no need to address that. The more subtle aspect is what players do with it and how they relate to one another.
Each reward should have its own activity, and each and every activity should have a dependency on the rewards from all the other activities. This creates a mesh of economic relationships, where everyone is dependent upon the activity of everyone else.
The empire builder can't survive with out the miner mining, the miner can't survive with out the empire builder watching his back. The pirate can't shoot the miner if the miner is not mining. The PI guy can't supply the POS builder if the miner does not need a POS to get a better yield. The trader can't move ice blocks if the POS builders are not selling more POSes to the miners. The pirate can't shoot the traders if the traders aren't moving anything. The traders can't make a profit if there are not pirates making it more risky to move things.
All of these relationships exist because no one person can do everything them selves. The more things there are to do, and the more dependencies that exist, then the more robust, interesting and dynamic the economy will be. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 00:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:CCP's primary motivation seems to be an attempt to encourage more industrial activity in Null space.
No one person can do everything them selves. The more things there are to do, and the more dependencies that exist, then the more robust, interesting and dynamic the economy will be. Makes sense -- thanks. |
Adunh Slavy
1358
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:Makes sense -- thanks.
You're welcome Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
683
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 17:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:Am I the only person who read the title and thought the thread was going to be about salvaging? The thread didn't end up there, but it was my intention. I currently salvage my missions - pick out the high value items that are worth more than the minerals -- and then refine the rest for the simplicity of selling it. I expect I'll shift towards blitzing for LP after the expansion.
Why not just sell EVERYTHING after this?
Especially if there wont be an issue with sell worth vs mineral worth as the minerals will always be lower?
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
165
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 18:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:Am I the only person who read the title and thought the thread was going to be about salvaging? The thread didn't end up there, but it was my intention. I currently salvage my missions - pick out the high value items that are worth more than the minerals -- and then refine the rest for the simplicity of selling it. I expect I'll shift towards blitzing for LP after the expansion. Why not just sell EVERYTHING after this? Especially if there wont be an issue with sell worth vs mineral worth as the minerals will always be lower? If EVERYONE is selling EVERYTHING, prices will drop for the modules that people used to reprocess. Income from salvage will decrease overall. Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
686
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nolen Cadmar wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:Am I the only person who read the title and thought the thread was going to be about salvaging? The thread didn't end up there, but it was my intention. I currently salvage my missions - pick out the high value items that are worth more than the minerals -- and then refine the rest for the simplicity of selling it. I expect I'll shift towards blitzing for LP after the expansion. Why not just sell EVERYTHING after this? Especially if there wont be an issue with sell worth vs mineral worth as the minerals will always be lower? If EVERYONE is selling EVERYTHING, prices will drop for the modules that people used to reprocess. Income from salvage will decrease overall.
Ah, mission nerf.
Yeah needed that.
Quote:CCP's primary motivation seems to be an attempt to encourage more industrial activity in Null space. This has been one of their talking points for about two and a half, three years now. Getting more people into null space has been a theme even longer. I would argue that this particular motivation, on CCP's part, does not help or hurt the economy, so much as change the risk/reward landscape.
They should talk to the corps out there then and make THEM make it more rewarding/friendly for new ppl cause thats the main reason not to go from what Ive seen. Null corps that are complete dbags to new to null ppl (not necessarily noobs in game tho).
That and there being no reason to. Ive been out there five or so times in my seven years playing, and Ive always netted a loss for doing it. Theres no market in any of the places Ive been out there, transporting to where there ARE markets is a pain in the ass, all kinds of stuff that just makes it completely uninteresting to ppl like me.
Dunno what they could do to make me go out there, but nerfing high sec mission income wont do it, Ill just start incursions, or mining lol
Id really like a mass select, sell all button PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2568
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
The salvaging side was killed by Odyssey adding more salvage to the economy through exploration.
Mission loot reprocessing probably won't change much. 800mm and 1600mm meta armor plates will fall 25-30% in price (because the people buying them are reprocessing them into Mexallon), meta 1-2 guns will fall, but blitzing will still be significantly more efficient than looting except for the very lowest skillpoint pilots.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |