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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
573
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:02:00 -
[151] - Quote
Weekend over ... PLEX is under 700 mill and dropping.
See you all here next weekend for the next installment of the "PLEX is too high I am quitting" saga. |
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
122
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Posted - 2014.04.14 01:25:00 -
[152] - Quote
seller1122 wrote:I think the increase in PLEX prices will definitely lead to people quitting the game. Regardless of whenever its right or wrong i would bet there are some people who have played via PLEX for so long that they deem it a waste to suddenly start paying real life $$ for this game. I imagine then if PLEX price keeps rising it will result in these people just quitting or un-subbing accounts rather than shelling out $$
A few might outright quit, but the most likely result will be in dropping of alts, but the mains will stay. |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1669
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Posted - 2014.04.14 01:39:00 -
[153] - Quote
... tends to think of rising PLEX prices as just another player-driven method that creates oddly familiar social strata... EVE is real, it's a proper "New World Order"... so go figure that it was only a matter of time before certain commodity prices dictate what class someone can't rise to or rise above.
... glares at the peons to get back to work... Schnell ! ! !
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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IDGAD
The Scope Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Belt Scout wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:Just ban ISBoxing and PLEX prices will drop VERY quickly. awwww, did I mine your fresh ice asteroid wiff all my bad Procurers in under 3 minutes? I Sorry. Nope. I live in w-space. We don't have ice belts here. (Also I could just shoot you) Still, ISBoxers are a major reason for high PLEX prices and thus banning them would cause PLEX prices to drop a lot. Of course CCP would never do that, because dropping PLEX prices would be bad for business.
Actually this is a very stupid idea. ISboxers 1: are not against the EULA and 2: provide CCP with extra subscription money. Anyone can ISbox if they have the time..... which is why this is actually not an issue about ISboxer but is actually about a much older issue. You are just mad because there are people who have a lot more free time than you or me and can spend the time to farm the isk, start 10 accounts, train them for a few months, then ISbox them for enough time to make the money back. Normal players usually can't get the initial capital or expend the time it takes to break even or run them well, so it becomes the old story of "That guy has more stuff than I do from playing 2 hours a week and I hate that".
As for plex prices, if you got rid of all ISboxing accounts that would not take out NEARLY as much plex demand as ya think. It would take out some, but not a lot. Now let's ask what happens when you do this? By removing bring less revenue to CCP and at the same time introduce a lot less minerals into the market because there are less people farming. That would cause all commodity costs to raise and your plex prices would not budge enough to justify the difference. As it has been for the past 5 years, mining profits are **** isk/hour and if they are put on par with other activities by eliminating massive amounts of miners or by reducing ore yields, it will skyrocket the price of all the precious ships you fly.
TL;DR : HTFU, learn to market. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1246
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:20:00 -
[155] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:ISboxers 1: are not against the EULA Actually ISBoxing always has been a grey area of the EULA. CCP let it slide but have never officially said ISBoxer is legit 3rd party software. Certain functions the software can do (Macro's) do violate the EULA obviously. Other functions it depends on how you interpret it. As the EULA forbids doing anything faster than if you were operating the mouse manually. And it can be argued that clicking once and it being broadcast to 100 clients is faster than doing it manually.
So.... Claiming ISboxer isn't against the EULA is not accurate. It's simply something they let slide. |
IDGAD
The Scope Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:35:00 -
[156] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:IDGAD wrote:ISboxers 1: are not against the EULA Actually ISBoxing always has been a grey area of the EULA. CCP let it slide but have never officially said ISBoxer is legit 3rd party software. Certain functions the software can do (Macro's) do violate the EULA obviously. Other functions it depends on how you interpret it. As the EULA forbids doing anything faster than if you were operating the mouse manually. And it can be argued that clicking once and it being broadcast to 100 clients is faster than doing it manually. So.... Claiming ISboxer isn't against the EULA is not accurate. It's simply something they let slide.
Actually CCP devs and GMs have both DIRECTLY said ISboxer is not against the EULA. The only people who claim "it's against the EULA" are just mad that it's actually not and are just trying to spread doubt. You sir, either need to educate yourself in case you are ignorant, or kill someone that may or may not be yourself for trying to advance such propaganda :P
- Edit for you lazy guys.
"Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA."
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2965
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:16:00 -
[157] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts. Keep it on topic and civil. Thank you. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1246
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:23:00 -
[158] - Quote
You mean the part of the post the GM specifically listed as 'Old, out of date' is what you are trying to base your argument on.... That post specifically agrees with my statement that ISBoxers ability to propagate clicks is something they let slide but they do not explicitly say that ISBoxer as an entire program is legit.
Seriously, reading comprehension. Read the whole post, not just quote the one line that supports you while ignoring the fact that is has just been declared officially out of date.
To quote a more relevant up to date part of that same post you tried to use badly. "Our general stance towards the concept of multiboxing has not changed but we cannot guarantee that the EULA is being upheld should you use any of the software/hardware mentioned by name in this post, nor will we at EVE customer support be able to officially endorse or sanction specific third party multiboxing programs." I.E. Multiboxing is allowed, Multiboxing programs may not be. |
Dave Stark
4881
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:36:00 -
[159] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:IDGAD wrote:ISboxers 1: are not against the EULA Actually ISBoxing always has been a grey area of the EULA. CCP let it slide but have never officially said ISBoxer is legit 3rd party software. Certain functions the software can do (Macro's) do violate the EULA obviously. Other functions it depends on how you interpret it. As the EULA forbids doing anything faster than if you were operating the mouse manually. And it can be argued that clicking once and it being broadcast to 100 clients is faster than doing it manually. So.... Claiming ISboxer isn't against the EULA is not accurate. It's simply something they let slide.
they don't ban you for it; it's allowed. deal with it. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2575
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
PLEX will continue to rise as long as incursions, null ratting and insurance continue to vomit currency into the game economy faster than it can be consumed.
Remove insurance (and give newbies some alternate way to recover from ship losses, like awarding cruiser hulls for L2 storyline missions), go further with the ESS-style 'more LP, less ISK' on null ratting, and change incursions to pay out more LP and less ISK, and watch PLEX prices fall over time. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
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Belt Scout
Forum alts make you mad
131
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:11:00 -
[161] - Quote
Seriously, you guys need to stop beating the 'ISBoxer is bad' horse. For the 5,000,000,000th time, it's allowed because it isn't botting. Why can't you seem to get that through your thick heads. Your complete lack of understanding of the EULA makes me wonder what other parts of the EULA you violate because of poor reading comprehension. The EULA isn't pure grain 100 proof "lawyer speak" by any means. It's basically written, completely on purpose I might add, so that an idiot can understand it.
It's time to put away your ISBoxer horse whip and move onto whining about something else. How many times do you need to be told by other players, by Devs, BY GM's, that ISB is fine, and you are wrong?
Enough's enough already. While most of us enjoy your tears, Ive had my fill. With enough left over to wash my cars, the house, and keep the pool topped off.
. EVE's only legitimate ISK halving service. I have 50Billion to not give away. It's easy for you to double my money. Just send me some isk, has to be 100Mil or higher, and I will send you back half. I can't lose. One guaranteed winner every round. Do it now. |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:30:00 -
[162] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:Actually this is a very stupid idea. ISboxers 1: are not against the EULA and 2: provide CCP with extra subscription money. I never said that it would be a good idea to do that. Also I don't buy PLEX. Why would I grind several hours for a PLEX, when I can just go to work for ~30minutes and afterwards have fun in the game? |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
17053
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Posted - 2014.04.14 08:09:00 -
[163] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Belt Scout wrote: It's time to put away your ISBoxer horse whip and move onto whining about something else. How many times do you need to be told by other players, by Devs, BY GM's, that ISB is fine, and you are wrong?
Uhm... I don't care what players say about it's legality and the last statement I read from a GM stated that certain parts of it are illegal. :Citation needed:
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
881
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Posted - 2014.04.14 08:18:00 -
[164] - Quote
Yeah, just wait until they get to 980 mil |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
45
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Posted - 2014.04.15 09:27:00 -
[165] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:PLEX will continue to rise as long as incursions, null ratting and insurance continue to vomit currency into the game economy faster than it can be consumed.
Remove insurance (and give newbies some alternate way to recover from ship losses, like awarding cruiser hulls for L2 storyline missions), go further with the ESS-style 'more LP, less ISK' on null ratting, and change incursions to pay out more LP and less ISK, and watch PLEX prices fall over time.
I have a flu so I might not think straight but if you lessen the amount of isk generated you will pay less for plex by almost exact proportion. So you kinda spend the same time farming. Sure - there will be time interval in which the economy will be adjusting but it's going to stabilize at, let's say, 80% the plex price for 80% the isk income. LP income you propose will make the lps cost less isk, also, so you are still farming approximately the same time for the same plex.
Not saying it's bad or anything, but inflation is most bothering for people with accumulated large amounts of isk. They see their storage declining in value and call it bad. Generating more LPs instead of isk will cause the players retaining the LPs to be hurt more, and guys retaining the isk to be slightly better off. It's a trade off that could work, but will not make farming for plex easier.
Plex goes higher in price because more people can afford it thru isk faucets or making a lot of isk from isk sinks (like LP exchange). So it's a question of more people earning more money and not the question of them making the said money by isk/lp farming. You would need to hurt general income the players have and force them to actually pay $$$ for plex if you want the price to decline. Or attract more newbies with fat wallets that will sell plexes on market in order to buy these battleships they want.
TL;DR - more people got better in eve and started to buy plexes, so the price goes higher. General inflation is not an issue here, since then the guys buying plex with isk gained from LP would see no change in the value of plex. It is not true. Singature Radius 48 m |
Salvos Rhoska
1054
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Posted - 2014.04.15 10:16:00 -
[166] - Quote
ISBoxers, especially miners, are the primary consumers of PLEX, in proportion to the rest of the playerbase. These are single individuals with 3-6 accounts dedicated to that function, IN ADDITION TO THEIR OTHER ACCOUNTS, and as such, outweigh the influx of new PLEX,as bought with currency, into the game.
Currently, 1hr of ice mining per day for a month, is roughly sufficient to PLEX the account. If you have 6 mining accounts, with 2hrs of ice mining per day, you can PLEX a total of 12 (twelve) accounts. That is an enormous PLEX sink.
That is, imo, primarily why PLEX is rising. More ISBox miners competing for PLEX that is purchased by an entirely different part of the community.
I strongly believe, that if for example Ice Anomalies became random as other Ore Anomalies are, there would be a marked reduction both in number of accounts, and PLEX consumption, as ISBox mining fleets struggled to deal with the added effort of PLEXing themselves.
The influx of PLEX the market received as a flood of new players brought PLEX to it in the aftermath of the media hit battle, has been exhausted.
Anticipation of more AUR options has contributed a bit to PLEX demand increasing, but not much.
The upcoming Fanfest will also drain PLEX from the market, for the live feed, raising demand even higher, as well as the Timecapsule option and other PLEXable functions related to the Fest.
I expect PLEX to climb to just under a billion in the next 6 months, unless the next expansion is sensational enough to bring in a notable flood of new players purchasing PLEX. Infact, the expansion will probabaly bring back old players, who will liquidate assets to ISK to buy PLEX to check the new content, and drive the price up even faster.
Make no mistake though, it is ISBOX miners who constitute the majority of the PLEX market. As PLEX rises, expect enormous whine from those players, and a big reduction in active accounts. I suggest that a big indicator of PLEX price and sustainability, is around the 2hrs ice mining per day mark. The previous psycnological threshold was at 1hr, which was required inorder to PLEX, has already been exceeded.
Im uncertain of how the ore/ice compression changes will affect material prices, and hence ISBoxer miner profits, but I would expect that it will reduce them, as compression agents take their profits as new middlemen in the chain.
Furthermore, the null sec refining bonus may suppress High sec market ore/ice prices, if, hopefully, null seccers take advantage of the bonus and move their mining accounts which currently operate in highsec, back to their domestic null markets. ------------ |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2216
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Posted - 2014.04.15 10:25:00 -
[167] - Quote
I blame hi-sec care-bears for the rise in the price of PLEX.
Man, it is so easy and so much fun impersonating Baltec 1 This is not a signature. |
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
62
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Posted - 2014.04.15 10:32:00 -
[168] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Make no mistake though, it is ISBOX miners who constitute the majority of the PLEX market.
Evidence?
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Salvos Rhoska
1054
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Posted - 2014.04.15 10:42:00 -
[169] - Quote
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Make no mistake though, it is ISBOX miners who constitute the majority of the PLEX market.
Evidence? I don't have concrete evidence, because I'm not CCP. Ask them if you want concrete figures.
Are you aware that an ice mining alt can plex itself with 1hr/day for a month? Now multiply that to 3-6 mining alts. The result is that for 2hrs of mining/day for a month, you can PLEX double the amount of accounts.
This can be used to PLEX the remainder of your non-mining accounts, with very little effort involved, since mining is largely an AFK activity once you are on-site. ------------ |
Wulfgar WarHammer
Imperium Research Inc
97
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Posted - 2014.04.15 12:20:00 -
[170] - Quote
I agree, ban ISBoxing/change ice mechanic. |
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3176
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Posted - 2014.04.15 12:58:00 -
[171] - Quote
Nonsense, the recent drive in plex has been from people buying it up for fanfest tickets and the like. Isboxer accounts will drive a small demand, but not much. There's only a few people with large scale isboxer operations, and the rest would plex isboxer or not. Plex prices rose before isboxer you know...
A huge amount prior to fanfest was investors buying it up in preparation for the usual increase, and because plex is only likely to increase in price going forward as people will always want to get more for their money. If last week you sold a plex for 700m, you aren't likely to spend the same amount of money this week to get 600m, so you don't buy. Supply dips and the price increases back to what it was. Then as CCP add more ways to spend plex, the base prices step up and the cycle repeats keeping it at it's new level, and so plex prices will continue to rise. People with large amounts of isk are generally better keeping their isk as plex for this very reason. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4700
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Posted - 2014.04.15 13:33:00 -
[172] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Nonsense, the recent drive in plex has been from people buying it up for fanfest tickets and the like. Isboxer accounts will drive a small demand, but not much. There's only a few people with large scale isboxer operations, and the rest would plex isboxer or not. Plex prices rose before isboxer you know...
A huge amount prior to fanfest was investors buying it up in preparation for the usual increase, and because plex is only likely to increase in price going forward as people will always want to get more for their money. If last week you sold a plex for 700m, you aren't likely to spend the same amount of money this week to get 600m, so you don't buy. Supply dips and the price increases back to what it was. Then as CCP add more ways to spend plex, the base prices step up and the cycle repeats keeping it at it's new level, and so plex prices will continue to rise. People with large amounts of isk are generally better keeping their isk as plex for this very reason.
This is a good point.
Myself, I tend to have much less liquid isk than I do assets. Isk never appreciates, it can only depreciate relative to the value of goods. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5344
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Posted - 2014.04.15 13:56:00 -
[173] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Nonsense, the recent drive in plex has been from people buying it up for fanfest tickets and the like. Isboxer accounts will drive a small demand, but not much. There's only a few people with large scale isboxer operations, and the rest would plex isboxer or not. Plex prices rose before isboxer you know...
A huge amount prior to fanfest was investors buying it up in preparation for the usual increase, and because plex is only likely to increase in price going forward as people will always want to get more for their money. If last week you sold a plex for 700m, you aren't likely to spend the same amount of money this week to get 600m, so you don't buy. Supply dips and the price increases back to what it was. Then as CCP add more ways to spend plex, the base prices step up and the cycle repeats keeping it at it's new level, and so plex prices will continue to rise. People with large amounts of isk are generally better keeping their isk as plex for this very reason. This is a good point. Myself, I tend to have much less liquid isk than I do assets. Isk never appreciates, it can only depreciate relative to the value of goods.
Actually, assets may lose value as well. Many put a lot of billions into BPOs, those BPOs are tied 1:1 with the value of ISK so they are also losing in value.
In general you want to differentiate your portfolio taking into account opposing trends markets.
Already seeing how things would go these days, long ago I have posted one rather interesting thread about correlation (direct and inverse) in the markets.
This sprung a very interesting study by a fellow trader who experimented with the concepts and put them in practice. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
1056
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Posted - 2014.04.15 14:11:00 -
[174] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Myself, I tend to have much less liquid isk than I do assets. Isk never appreciates, it can only depreciate relative to the value of goods.
Isk creates more Isk, but not if it's locked in a wallet, only if (wisely) invested.
Vote for Fuzzy Steve! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4700
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Posted - 2014.04.15 14:17:00 -
[175] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Actually, assets may lose value as well. Many put a lot of billions into BPOs, those BPOs are tied 1:1 with the value of ISK so they are also losing in value. In general you want to differentiate your portfolio taking into account opposing trends markets. Already seeing how things would go these days, long ago I have posted one rather interesting thread about correlation (direct and inverse) in the markets. This sprung a very interesting study by a fellow trader who experimented with the concepts and put them in practice.
I am aware of this.
I didn't say that assets do not depreciate. I merely said that isk always does, and assets do so to a much lesser degree. Especially certain items, people will always need POS fuel, for example. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5344
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Posted - 2014.04.15 15:13:00 -
[176] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Actually, assets may lose value as well. Many put a lot of billions into BPOs, those BPOs are tied 1:1 with the value of ISK so they are also losing in value. In general you want to differentiate your portfolio taking into account opposing trends markets. Already seeing how things would go these days, long ago I have posted one rather interesting thread about correlation (direct and inverse) in the markets. This sprung a very interesting study by a fellow trader who experimented with the concepts and put them in practice. I am aware of this. I didn't say that assets do not depreciate. I merely said that isk always does, and assets do so to a much lesser degree. Especially certain items, people will always need POS fuel, for example.
Yes but look at the current nitrogen isotopes chart... Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
292
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Posted - 2014.04.15 15:18:00 -
[177] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Actually, assets may lose value as well. Many put a lot of billions into BPOs, those BPOs are tied 1:1 with the value of ISK so they are also losing in value. In general you want to differentiate your portfolio taking into account opposing trends markets. Already seeing how things would go these days, long ago I have posted one rather interesting thread about correlation (direct and inverse) in the markets. This sprung a very interesting study by a fellow trader who experimented with the concepts and put them in practice. I am aware of this. I didn't say that assets do not depreciate. I merely said that isk always does, and assets do so to a much lesser degree. Especially certain items, people will always need POS fuel, for example. Yes but look at the current nitrogen isotopes chart... VV!
Glad I found you!
Would you be interested in investing in change? :D
And I'm not referring to my ugly face! ^^ |
Amyclas Amatin
xX-Crusader-Xx Li3 Federation
229
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Posted - 2014.04.15 15:27:00 -
[178] - Quote
It's all a goon conspiracy.
https://soundcloud.com/eve-offline/mittani-april-sotg-link
Because that was posted on April 2nd, it's totally not an April Fool's joke! For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Dave Stark
4889
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:22:00 -
[179] - Quote
Doireen Kaundur wrote:inflation?
inflation is like lupus.
it's never lupus. |
Daerrol
Lumen et Umbra
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:56:00 -
[180] - Quote
IDK this level is not terribly unaffordable. I made 500m half-assing PVE last weekend. I don't plex my account, but it's really not that hard even at this level. Much rather would buy more T3 to get exploded in Null. |
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