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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
600
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
EVE is pretty unique in the sense that we are all sharing one big world. It's the biggest and most open sandbox game available. And unlike other MMOs we only pay for our monthly playtime and all additional content that gets added to the game is always completely free of charge and available to everyone.
But for how long will a business model like this be sustainable? The expectancy of receiving free expansions twice a year is already showing a few downsides, most notably that new content is making way for much needed bug fixing and improvements. The direct cause for that is the age of the engine and the poor coding from the early 2000's that is still part of EVE today.
This is the point where other MMO's reach the natural end of their lifecycle. The game is old, the code is old and updating everything to current standards is too much of an effort for the return. So instead of investing many hours in maintaining old code, the choice is made to simply build a sequel from the ground up and be done with it.
While I'm sure we're all thankful this isn't happening with EVE, one has to wonder for how long we can keep going like this? How long are we going to put up with the truly ancient code before it absolutely needs to be updated? Is it even viable for CCP to keep EVE fresh and modern while also rebuilding the entire game bit by bit from the ground up behind the scenes?
In the CSM 8 minutes a mention was made on how the current growth of fleet fights, as it stands right now, would be completely unsustainable. Fixing it would require constant optimization of old game code. Everything from weapons, damage, drones, navigation is in dire need of an under the hood touch up just to make a node cope with what passes as 'a huge fleet' these days. And what is a huge fleet today is tiny in comparison tomorrow. On top of that there are tons of game mechanics that need fixing as well. The entire sov system, which in turn includes outposts and starbases, all of it needs an update. Either the coding is old or the mechanic doesn't work. In a lot of cases it's both.
CCP, like any game developer, has limited resources to spend on all these things that need fixing. Limited personnel, limited hours in a day, limited budget. So how long can we go on adding new content on top of an already crumbling foundation before the entire thing collapses in on itself?
Would it, for the sake of discussion, not be a better plan for Devs to spend minimal time on EVE Online currently and spend the next 2 or 3 years on building a completely new engine from scratch? And I don't mean a completely new game where we all start from scratch, just a new engine to which all current game information can be ported over. Sure we'd have to live without major expansions for a long time. But after that we'd have a rock solid new foundation that EVE can thrive on for the next 10 -15 years.
Which leads me back to the original question. Is the current business model of releasing new content twice a year by default sustainable in the long term? I don't think it is, because CCP simply doesn't have the resources to do so in conjunction with updating, fixing and modernizing the underlying code. It has to be one or the other and currently they're building on broken support columns that are going to give way at one point or another.
Would be interesting to hear some other opinions on this. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
686
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
yes Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Doireen Kaundur
633
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:yes
See, even the blind man can see it.
Well it's been going on for 10 years so I say, yes.
F2P is overrated. I leave games when they go F2P. A great American humorist and author recently said: "The one unintentional flaw of the internet generation is its ability to give the stupidest segments of our population the loudest voices." I have a tendency to agree with his statement.-á |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11129
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
10 years of growth says yes. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Posting in stealth "EvE is dying" thread.
No it's not. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
600
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:10 years of growth says yes.
10 years of growth is what is causing the problems the old engine is causing today. Besides that 10 years of growth in the past says absolutely nothing about the next 10 years to come.
And nowhere have I said that EVE is dying, it certainly isn't. But it's starting to get sick. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11131
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:baltec1 wrote:10 years of growth says yes. 10 years of growth is what is causing the problems the old engine is causing today. Besides that 10 years of growth in the past says absolutely nothing about the next 10 years to come. And nowhere have I said that EVE is dying, it certainly isn't. But it's starting to get sick.
You base this on what?
EVE is not stuggling to host the masses now that drones have been sorted. Simple fact remains, EVE is growing after 10 years while all of the other MMOs are not. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4400
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Eve Online. Dying since 2003Gäó
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
241
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Your thread is worse than mine.
While my ugly face is a fact, your post is full of stupid assumptions and guesses.
DO YOU SEE THIS FACE?
DOES IT LOOK LIKE IT'S JOKING??
WHY ARE YOU LAUGHING???????
*runs away crying* D: |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
91
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grr goons? |
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Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1846
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
In my experience, complete rewrites of something never work as smoothly as everyone seems to imagine. While it's true that it is easier to lay a more stable foundation for the "big picture", there are often many intricacies and details with little problems and features which are already solved in the current implementation, which will cost more time and effort to solve anew in rewritten code than often is suspected.
As such, a complete rewrite is almost always a bad idea business-wise. Customers are mostly not tolerant enough to give up short-term improvements and updates for the few years a proper rewrite needs. And of those that are patient enough, many will be upset about new bugs, which will inevitably be contained in the new code.
On the other hand it is possible to maintain and improve even a rather bad code base to become and stay viable, and even replace parts of the code with completely new ones on a bit by bit basis. It'll still be a lot of effort, but it's way easier to plan for than a huge "all in one" approach, and you won't have to neglect the current game as much in the meantime.
Of course I don't know how things really are in the case of EVE, and maybe this is a case where a rewrite would make sense. I just wanted to say that it's never as easy as most think, even if they think it'll be hard.
Given the history of CCP I know of, they care for their game long-term, thus they'll have thought about all of this and have made, or will make, a decision with that in mind. |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
245
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Advertising is fine, however once playing the game there is much to be desired. It's like playing Microsoft Office online. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4402
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:Advertising is fine, however once playing the game there is much to be desired. It's like playing Microsoft Office online.
http://office.microsoft.com/
Where do i activate my guns?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
245
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:RAIN Arthie wrote:Advertising is fine, however once playing the game there is much to be desired. It's like playing Microsoft Office online. http://office.microsoft.com/Where do i activate my guns?
Hodor! |
Jallukola
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
The business model is sustainable, to a very large degree in fact.
The question you should be asking is the growth enough to sustain the business model, and like many said it already, EVE's rocky road has been only growth, even more prominent during these past few years.
If you're looking for factors that sustain the growth, one thing is clear; No matter what angle you look it from, EVE is aesthetically pleasing game. There's alot of effort put to audiovisual work and that is what catches the eye of a new customer at first.
The business model itself helps keeping the pocketbooks filled till the laces break. A tad bit more expensive per month than other subscription based MMOs are a tiny price to pay for the full arsenal of free expansions. Not to mention the option to pay with a currency that's merely ones and zeroes, though I have personally advetised it needs actual effort to work it.
What is holding EVE's growth back a bit is not EVE or CCP itself, it's the relationship of the product and the customer. EVE is a verey niche game, a specialized product of entertainment for very special kind of nutty customers. As long as the player is willingly to invest to such product which quite clearly explains its own workings, the growth is, and will remain there. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
211
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:
Would be interesting to hear some other opinions on this.
My opinion is that your post is about 2.5 years late (29. Nov 2011 to be more accurate). It's time: Disconnect PLEX to AUR conversion.You can read more details at the "Features & Ideas" forum thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4439504#post4439504Please support if you like the idea or post the downsides if you don't. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
331
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Posted - 2014.04.12 14:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
News alert!
Eve is dying. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Doris Dents
Doobie's Dog House Goonswarm Federation
382
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Posted - 2014.04.12 15:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Given that CCP can afford to keep the lights on and **** away money on enormous failures like DUST and Word of Darkness funded entirely by EVE I'm going to say yes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20678
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 15:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Doris Dents wrote:Given that CCP can afford to keep the lights on and **** away money on enormous failures like DUST and Word of Darkness funded entirely by EVE I'm going to say yes. GǪalthough the rumour mill on the latter is interesting right now. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Xavier Holtzman
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension
119
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Posted - 2014.04.12 15:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doris Dents wrote:Given that CCP can afford to keep the lights on and **** away money on enormous failures like DUST and Word of Darkness funded entirely by EVE I'm going to say yes. GǪalthough the rumour mill on the latter is interesting right now.
What is the rumour mill saying about World of Darkness online? Very curious. -x |
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Thead Enco
47th Ronin
131
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Posted - 2014.04.12 15:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
This ******* thread again....
p.s. HODOR
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
690
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xavier Holtzman wrote:Tippia wrote:Doris Dents wrote:Given that CCP can afford to keep the lights on and **** away money on enormous failures like DUST and Word of Darkness funded entirely by EVE I'm going to say yes. GǪalthough the rumour mill on the latter is interesting right now. What is the rumour mill saying about World of Darkness online? Very curious. Hopefully its cannibalised and used for wisi, that way no potential spaceship dev time gets wasted on it and we get avatar related content. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20680
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Posted - 2014.04.12 16:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xavier Holtzman wrote:What is the rumour mill saying about World of Darkness online? Very curious. Yesterday, scuttlebutt had it that the Atlanta office was being reduced to only EVE-related personnel and that people were being poached by (or reaching out to) former colleagues elsewhere, but this was later semi-officially described as having GÇ£no basis in factsGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
682
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Posted - 2014.04.12 16:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Xavier Holtzman wrote:What is the rumour mill saying about World of Darkness online? Very curious. Yesterday, scuttlebutt had it that the Atlanta office was being reduced to only EVE-related personnel and that people were being poached by (or reaching out to) former colleagues elsewhere, but this was later semi-officially described as having GÇ£no basis in factsGÇ¥.
I thought that when they had to fire their 20% they took it mostly from the WW Atlanta staff? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2014.04.12 18:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
No, in the sense of "where do we go now" because the game is largely stagnant...
Let's see what Fanfest and summer expansion bring, I'm prepared to change my mind but CCP need to do more to boost (all) player rentention. |
Prince Kobol
1646
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Posted - 2014.04.12 18:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:No, in the sense of "where do we go now?" because the game is largely stagnant...
Let's see what Fanfest and the summer expansion brings, I'm prepared to change my mind but CCP need to do more to boost (all) player rentention.
Fanfest will bring what it always brings.. A Vision and a x year Plan with a cool video that will have everybody shouting "Cooooool"
Then for the next week or so people will be talking about how great x, y and z was.
About a month or so after people will see past the cool vids and fun stuff and actually realise nothing of any note was said and we are stiull stuck with teh ****** Sov system we have, pos's will not be fixed and things like corp interface management and S&I interface will still suck balls |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1434
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Posted - 2014.04.12 18:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:10 years of growth says yes. USSR had 70 years of growth by 1990..... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Lugia3
Emerald Inc. Easily Excited
937
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Posted - 2014.04.12 20:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
It's been stable for 10 years now. Why would it suddenly change? This isn't your 3 month old wannabe WoW clone which decides to go f2p and sell hats. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Prince Kobol
1647
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Posted - 2014.04.12 20:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
It is stable at the moment but for how much longer are people going to wait for CCP to fix Sov Mechanics, PoS, Corp Roles, Corp Management Interface, S&I etc..
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Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2569
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Posted - 2014.04.12 20:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:10 years of growth says yes.
Your own boss says no. Aaaaaaand relax. |
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