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Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
814
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Teh wat? This engine isn't 10yrs old... don't follow development? Does it look 10yrs old to to you? You think it's DX8 or something?? Maybe time to throw out that 12yr old computer? Old code lol
EVE is dieingGäó |
Prince Kobol
1648
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Teh wat? This engine isn't 10yrs old... don't follow development? Does it look 10yrs old to to you? You think it's DX8 or something?? Maybe time to throw out that 12yr old computer? Old code lol
EVE is dieingGäó
I think he was referring to PoS code being old and **** |
Lugia3
Emerald Inc. Easily Excited
938
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
What was written by Sion Kumitomo, not Mittens. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
294
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Before EVE dies she will give birth to her son, Cain. The envious one whom slew his brother whom walked in stations and flew Valkyries in first person. He will be more self absorbed and personalize his conflicts rather than objectifying them as his mother did to the apple. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2571
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Teh wat? This engine isn't 10yrs old... don't follow development? Does it look 10yrs old to to you? You think it's DX8 or something?? Maybe time to throw out that 12yr old computer? Old code lol
EVE is dieingGäó
Fascinating distraction. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2571
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Posted - 2014.04.12 20:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:What was written by Sion Kumitomo, not Mittens.
Read it. The guy is the guiding political hand.
Not for me to judge - was just pointing it out. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15052
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:
Would it, for the sake of discussion, not be a better plan for Devs to spend minimal time on EVE Online currently and spend the next 2 or 3 years on building a completely new engine from scratch? And I don't mean a completely new game where we all start from scratch, just a new engine to which all current game information can be ported over. Sure we'd have to live without major expansions for a long time. But after that we'd have a rock solid new foundation that EVE can thrive on for the next 10 -15 years.
This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind.
CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was.
This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2571
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think most of the sensible player-base knows that - it's just the tards that think it is easy. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2571
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Would it, for the sake of discussion, not be a better plan for Devs to spend minimal time on EVE Online currently and spend the next 2 or 3 years on building a completely new engine from scratch? And I don't mean a completely new game where we all start from scratch, just a new engine to which all current game information can be ported over. Sure we'd have to live without major expansions for a long time. But after that we'd have a rock solid new foundation that EVE can thrive on for the next 10 -15 years.
This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind. CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was. This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development.
Malc - within the limits of your NDA would you say that CCP is devoting enough resource into refactoring their code vs introducing new stuff? Aaaaaaand relax. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
698
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
I'm going to guess , yes. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
815
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind.
CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was.
This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development.
Yep, new dev tools, re-written client, cutting-edge server technology, the only "end of their lifecycle" games are typically from the huge assortment of get-rich-quick WoW clones you see dropping out on a weekly basis.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15052
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Malcanis wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Would it, for the sake of discussion, not be a better plan for Devs to spend minimal time on EVE Online currently and spend the next 2 or 3 years on building a completely new engine from scratch? And I don't mean a completely new game where we all start from scratch, just a new engine to which all current game information can be ported over. Sure we'd have to live without major expansions for a long time. But after that we'd have a rock solid new foundation that EVE can thrive on for the next 10 -15 years.
This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind. CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was. This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development. Malc - within the limits of your NDA would you say that CCP is devoting enough resource into refactoring their code vs introducing new stuff? Ed - you prob can't answer that - be interesting to hear your thoughts on how you feel the balance is being achieved.
My knowledge of software development pretty much stops at
10 PRINT "Christ, computers are SO boring"
So NDA or no NDA, I simply lack the competence to even understand the answer I'd get even if CCP were to give it me and even if I were able to pass it on. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
682
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jayem See wrote:Malcanis wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Would it, for the sake of discussion, not be a better plan for Devs to spend minimal time on EVE Online currently and spend the next 2 or 3 years on building a completely new engine from scratch? And I don't mean a completely new game where we all start from scratch, just a new engine to which all current game information can be ported over. Sure we'd have to live without major expansions for a long time. But after that we'd have a rock solid new foundation that EVE can thrive on for the next 10 -15 years.
This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind. CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was. This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development. Malc - within the limits of your NDA would you say that CCP is devoting enough resource into refactoring their code vs introducing new stuff? Ed - you prob can't answer that - be interesting to hear your thoughts on how you feel the balance is being achieved. My knowledge of software development pretty much stops at 10 PRINT "Christ, computers are SO boring"
HA, me too. My biggest accomplishment was scaring the **** out of a substitute teacher in high school with a program simulating "hacking the US Global defense grid" in QBasic lol. Ppl shouldnt substitute teacher a subject they know nothing about
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Yarda Black
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
123
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'm gonna let you in a little secret: My laptop's current graphicsdrivers are so botched up, the old lightversion of EVE would look absolutely incredible compared to it. I almost literally play EVE by overview. I still consider a minor patch that solved a few glitches for the DX9 drivers the best ever. Made my day. Week even.
Then again, I played stuff like Pong...
If their current businessmodel is to improve on what is here now, then I'll be here for a while. I will choose less TiDi over cooler graphics any day (for fairness lets assume I would have a properly working computer).
I'm not against wormholes, incursions, faction warfare or any of that. Nor do I hate new stuff in general. I usually try all that at least once. But I played long before any of that came to be and fell in love with EVE nonetheless. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
819
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Malc - within the limits of your NDA would you say that CCP is devoting enough resource into refactoring their code vs introducing new stuff? As such things as new dev tools roll out, I would guess to say that content development would increase over time. As tools become more efficient, turnout increases. Such as my modeling app today is 20x faster/intuitive than the one I used 10 years ago, for example. As well, with all the bug squashing that has happened over the past couple years, new content additions should become less problematic as it had been in the past. Anyway, as a community we rose up and demanded reiteration rather than new content, and CCP has done a good job with that imo, and in time those final milestones will be reached and a focus on new content will probably become more center stage. After all, as it stands, EVE already has so much content, the OP would be kidding himself if he thought he covered it all compared to your typical level progression mmo. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 22:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind.
CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was.
This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development.
While I don't imagine CCP sitting on their asses being slow all day, there are truly some areas currently in the game where I'm wondering how long it can possibly take to fix. POS's being a good example, people have been asking for a fix for these since I started playing in 2006. We've all noticed they were REALLY up for a major overhaul very soon in 2009 and should be near the top of the priority list. You'd expect that at least someone somewhere is working on at least creating some basic outlines or concepts. But then you read the CSM minutes and come to the stunning conclusion that no-one has even bothered looking at POSes for the last 8 years, let alone come up with a plan to fix them. Same goes for simple things like a log-off button which can't be done because of old nested code. Okay it's a hard thing to fix, but aside from taking a glance at it and coming to that conclusion, I think it's safe to say that no further effort has gone into actually attempting to solve the issue.
What I'm getting at, sometimes it feels as if CCP looks at hard to fix code and just puts it on the pile of other things that are hard to fix and then covers it up with a sheet to pretend it isn't there. Then they proceed to fix all the relatively easy stuff, even though those things aren't very high on anyone's priority list. That is not the right course to take. All that happens when the community brings up something important is CCP saying "yes, we know. It needs to be fixed." and then not doing anything except fix some unimportant stuff.
I know I'm sounding like some bitter 'EVE is dying' bittervet or something. That's not my intention, just frustrated at the apparent lack of priority with the devs. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15059
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 23:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Malcanis wrote: This is already happening, and in fact has been going on continuously for several years, except with perhaps a different balance between feature expansion and core code rewrite than you seem to have in mind.
CCP have been putting a large amount of resources into "refactoring" their code base and upgrading their inadequate or in some cases simply non-existent dev tools, and they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Team Gridlock was an example of this: A large amount of resources expended, but virtually no new features added: just everything working better and smoother than it was.
This low-level development work is one reason why the pace of visible change of EVE sometimes seems inexplicably slow. As the new dev tools come online, they will make some of the frustratingly neglected areas ripe for more efficient development.
While I don't imagine CCP sitting on their asses being slow all day, there are truly some areas currently in the game where I'm wondering how long it can possibly take to fix. POS's being a good example, people have been asking for a fix for these since I started playing in 2006. We've all noticed they were REALLY up for a major overhaul very soon in 2009 and should be near the top of the priority list. You'd expect that at least someone somewhere is working on at least creating some basic outlines or concepts. But then you read the CSM minutes and come to the stunning conclusion that no-one has even bothered looking at POSes for the last 8 years, let alone come up with a plan to fix them. Same goes for simple things like a log-off button which can't be done because of old nested code. Okay it's a hard thing to fix, but aside from taking a glance at it and coming to that conclusion, I think it's safe to say that no further effort has gone into actually attempting to solve the issue. What I'm getting at, sometimes it feels as if CCP looks at hard to fix code and just puts it on the pile of other things that are hard to fix and then covers it up with a sheet to pretend it isn't there. Then they proceed to fix all the relatively easy stuff, even though those things aren't very high on anyone's priority list. That is not the right course to take. All that happens when the community brings up something important is CCP saying "yes, we know. It needs to be fixed." and then not doing anything except fix some unimportant stuff. I know I'm sounding like some bitter 'EVE is dying' bittervet or something. That's not my intention, just frustrated at the apparent lack of priority with the devs.
Well another problem with EVE is just that there's so god damb much of it.
Sure, yes POS. But what about hi-sec concepts, lo-sec concepts, W-space concepts, sov, NPC 0.0, industry, missions, plexes, Faction Warfare, Invention, R&D, mining, UI development, sound/music, server performance, corp management, New Player Experience, wardecs, bounties, capitals, supercapitals, new tech 3s, Jove, new types of space, environmental effects, Incursions, COSMOS, veteran rewards, drugs/boosters, DUST interaction, the contract system, CREST/API, 3rd party development, and eleventeen other things I can't think of right now but I've just given you about 20 examples of gameplay areas each of which could definitely do with a 6 month expansion sized development project.
Oh and of course WiS.
Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1633
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 23:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
EVE is going to be around long after all other current MMOs are ancient history. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Wooly Akachi
Capital Storm. Black Flag Society
41
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 00:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
From all the little deployable structures being released, CCP is working towrads new POS structures.
I'm guessing they are using these small structures to iron out the code before anouncing the new POS code. |
Serene Repose
1254
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 01:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP can use this current engine indefinitely, I imagine. Who but they know how they've structured their corporation, and which Peter is being robbed to pay which Paul. Yet, even they (and their blindly loyal following) must admit (and quite possibly accept the fact that) obsolescence will catch up to them just like it does everyone else.
Unless, of course, their plan is to sell tickets to view antiquated gaming. Then of course this present method is eternal. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
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Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
827
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 02:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:CCP can use this current engine indefinitely, I imagine. Who but they know how they've structured their corporation, and which Peter is being robbed to pay which Paul. Yet, even they (and their blindly loyal following) must admit (and quite possibly accept the fact that) obsolescence will catch up to them just like it does everyone else.
Unless, of course, their plan is to sell tickets to view antiquated gaming. Then of course this present method is eternal. What if's. But if you backtrack through the development history of EVE, it's a different story, historically. You mean what if they suddenly stop improving EVE after a decade of constant improvements, expansion and growth. What if EVE is dieingGäó
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20734
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 16:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Xavier Holtzman wrote:What is the rumour mill saying about World of Darkness online? Very curious. Yesterday, scuttlebutt had it that the Atlanta office was being reduced to only EVE-related personnel and that people were being poached by (or reaching out to) former colleagues elsewhere, but this was later semi-officially described as having GÇ£no basis in factsGÇ¥. Scuttlebutt gets it right for once. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 17:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Most MMOs of the last decade with a sub have a massive initial influx of players that slowly peters off and dwindles over time. EVE has done the converse of starting with 3k peak users and gone to the 10s of thousands at any one time. With the odd plateau or dip here and there. If they can work on new player retention whilst staying true to the sandbox back-stabbery and double dealings that makes eve so fun. I can't see any reason why it won't last another 10+ years. |
PrettyMuch Always Right
University of Caille Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2014.04.14 18:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't think it's very sustainable.
If you think CCP makes close to the kinds of profits other MMOs make you are mistaken. Their subscription numbers that actually pay are far less than their real subscription numbers.
For the longest time I had 18 active accounts "subscribed". I was PLEXing all of them manually none the less.
With how easy it's become to make ISK, I don't think the business model is sustainable in the long run. They should be charging a base subscription fee IMO; if you can make enough ISK you can then PLEX secondary, etc. accounts |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
746
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:I don't think it's very sustainable.
If you think CCP makes close to the kinds of profits other MMOs make you are mistaken. Their subscription numbers that actually pay are far less than their real subscription numbers.
For the longest time I had 18 active accounts "subscribed". I was PLEXing all of them manually none the less.
With how easy it's become to make ISK, I don't think the business model is sustainable in the long run. They should be charging a base subscription fee IMO; if you can make enough ISK you can then PLEX secondary, etc. accounts why, the accounts were paid for. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Xarkon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Sure, yes POS. But what about ... [SO MUCH STUFF] ... each of which could definitely do with a 6 month expansion sized development project.
The point is, there may be too much stuff. Of course all the new stuff is awesome. And future new stuff will be, too. But those that have been around the longest, haven't stayed around because of unknown stuff that would come into the game years in the future. They stayed because the general atmosphere of the game is captivating. I came back after 5 years absence, not for any of the new features. I didn't even know what the new things were, until I logged in and noticed differences. Then I figured I should go read what was all different. I came back because I remembered what exploring the "universe" was like. Yes, the new features were cool. But once I was playing again, I went back to doing what I was doing 5 years ago: building up my space empire. And succeeding at it again with things that came into the game back in the mid-2000's. And, yes, I'll eventually get around to all the new things. But those new things aren't what keeps me *cough*addicted*cough* to EVE. Its the fascination of discovery, along with the thrill of the risk, all bound together with the lust to blow up other player's spaceships.
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Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2213
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
I blame hi-sec for any issues Eve Online may or may not have. This is not a signature. |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
292
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quote:Is EVE's current business model sustainable? The business model is fine. Spending the revenue on projects doomed to fail is a completely different matter. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
403
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:I don't think it's very sustainable.
If you think CCP makes close to the kinds of profits other MMOs make you are mistaken. Their subscription numbers that actually pay are far less than their real subscription numbers.
For the longest time I had 18 active accounts "subscribed". I was PLEXing all of them manually none the less.
With how easy it's become to make ISK, I don't think the business model is sustainable in the long run. They should be charging a base subscription fee IMO; if you can make enough ISK you can then PLEX secondary, etc. accounts Teach me how to spend billions of isk on PLEX without knowing what PLEX is.
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Olive Outamon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
Eve supposed to be a strategy game when I started playing, and now is a chat client focused on graphics (strange choice). Also seems to be less and less original people and content creators in this game because of being rigged patch after patch (changed to favor a certain category of players), so I'd say is not sustainable.
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