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Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
127
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Posted - 2014.04.15 06:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.
But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.
They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.
If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.
It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.
Where is the fun?
I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...
I don't see the point.
Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullifed ships... |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
295
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Posted - 2014.04.15 06:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Whoops just reported this post for Lacking an Idea, I see that you have one in the final line of the OP, was it there originally or did you edit it in, because I see that you have edited it. |
Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
127
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Posted - 2014.04.15 06:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes I forgot the proposal the first time ;-) |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
378
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 06:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. Ceptor fleets are a lot of fun exactly because you cannot be caught easily. It's not the only fun in the game in terms of fleet roams, but it certainly is a lot of fun, because you can cover large areas of space in a fairly short amount of time and are not stuck at one place. That is great. Learn to live with it, it's your CSM members who endorsed this change anyways. Besides, Ceptor fleets are very easy to counter or to stop with various existing means. |
I'm So Pretty
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 07:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
HIC idea is fine. Borderline uncatchable is not. This also means nullified T3 get F'd by the HIC though.
+1 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1289
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.
But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.
They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.
If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.
It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.
Where is the fun?
I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...
I don't see the point.
EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.
Smart bombing gate camps.
htfu etc. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Eschelon Directive Universal Consortium
59
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Posted - 2014.04.15 07:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:No. Ceptor fleets are a lot of fun exactly because you cannot be caught easily. It's not the only fun in the game in terms of fleet roams, but it certainly is a lot of fun, because you can cover large areas of space in a fairly short amount of time and are not stuck at one place. That is great. Learn to live with it, it's your CSM members who endorsed this change anyways. Besides, Ceptor fleets are very easy to counter or to stop with various existing means. If your idea came through, however, then this scripted bubble should not be able to stop non-nullified ships and only affect those with nullification.
Really, do i detect the risk averse mentality here? Does this suddenly have a place in eve Online when it does not come from some HS miner?
Anywhoo.
It would be better to have to make the choice to counter Interceptors on Interdictors when fitting the ship with a special module overcoming the specific nullified effects. This would also make it more dangerous for T3's to roam around.
Although the impunity witch Inteceptors now have seems a bit silly. There is no ship that can warp faster, move faster on grid or enjoy the safety of bubble free roaming like it. And i like the fact that nullsec carebears no longer have the safety of 900 anchored warp bubbles on gates the immense speed inties enjoy on all levels makes forming a counter fleet near impossible unless you have your own ceptor fleet standing by.
To not have everyone just spam the module only interdictors sould be able to fit the 'anti-nullify' module and it requires ammo equal in size to the cap booster 400's maybe? This would generate an option to fit specific ships as anti-inteceptor with Scram (anti MWD) Web (anti AB and general speed) and the anti nullify module. This would mean 3 modules, ammo and a heavy skill requirement for the ships to counter the easy peasy inty roams.
[edit]
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Smart bombing gate camps.
htfu etc.
Really, you never use d-scan when in inty roams? not saying it never happens but smartbombs on gates are easily avoided by inties because of the accelerated warp speed. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
454
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Posted - 2014.04.15 07:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ive caught ceptors before in gate camps. multiple in the same run acvtually. plopped a hyena down and nabbed a couple one by one.
Their strentgh is the ability to dicate whether they want to fight or not. Simply bring something too big for them and they will either try to kill it and die or run to find the next juicy target.
I have been in gangs that were both utterly successful and /or died in glorious gunfire. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
378
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Posted - 2014.04.15 08:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ssoraszh Tzarszh wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:No. Ceptor fleets are a lot of fun exactly because you cannot be caught easily. It's not the only fun in the game in terms of fleet roams, but it certainly is a lot of fun, because you can cover large areas of space in a fairly short amount of time and are not stuck at one place. That is great. Learn to live with it, it's your CSM members who endorsed this change anyways. Besides, Ceptor fleets are very easy to counter or to stop with various existing means. If your idea came through, however, then this scripted bubble should not be able to stop non-nullified ships and only affect those with nullification. Really, do i detect the risk averse mentality here? Does this suddenly have a place in eve Online when it does not come from some HS miner? Anywhoo. It would be better to have to make the choice to counter Interceptors on Interdictors when fitting the ship with a special module overcoming the specific nullified effects. This would also make it more dangerous for T3's to roam around. Although the impunity witch Inteceptors now have seems a bit silly. There is no ship that can warp faster, move faster on grid or enjoy the safety of bubble free roaming like it. And i like the fact that nullsec carebears no longer have the safety of 900 anchored warp bubbles on gates the immense speed inties enjoy on all levels makes forming a counter fleet near impossible unless you have your own ceptor fleet standing by. To not have everyone just spam the module only interdictors sould be able to fit the 'anti-nullify' module and it requires ammo equal in size to the cap booster 400's maybe? This would generate an option to fit specific ships as anti-inteceptor with Scram (anti MWD) Web (anti AB and general speed) and the anti nullify module. This would mean 3 modules, ammo and a heavy skill requirement for the ships to counter the easy peasy inty roams.
You sense whatever you want to sense in your little world. Fact is that there are numerous counters to ceptor fleets, which work successfully and are widely used already. If you are incapable of using or employing them, you should probably train up not only on the skill points front.
Ceptors work as now intended and counters work as intended (which CCP introduced before the ceptor change in the first place). |
Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2014.04.15 08:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have caught a few ceptors with a high remoted sensor booster Malediction. But it is really random. Baiting could be cool if Light missile Crow and Malediction were not so present. Smart Bombs BS is not so efficient than it should.
A special anti-nullified script for HIC should give a good option.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
138
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Posted - 2014.04.15 09:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
this would be game breaking - so no the damn things are so fragile...... I imagine an assault frig fleet might have some fun, as would a smart-bombing BS group For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it WILL be. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
138
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Posted - 2014.04.15 09:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
edit - or you could set up a cyno on the station as if something like a freighter's jumping in and then pipe-bomb For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it WILL be. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
337
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 10:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Smartbomb range Bonus for a specific ship class... Support Comet Mining! |
Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm. Black Flag Society
224
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 11:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:No. Ceptor fleets are a lot of fun exactly because you cannot be caught easily. It's not the only fun in the game in terms of fleet roams, but it certainly is a lot of fun, because you can cover large areas of space in a fairly short amount of time and are not stuck at one place. That is great. Learn to live with it, it's your CSM members who endorsed this change anyways. Besides, Ceptor fleets are very easy to counter or to stop with various existing means. If your idea came through, however, then this scripted bubble should not be able to stop non-nullified ships and only affect those with nullification.
Tentatively agree with this - a single smartbombing panther would wreck any interceptor fleet. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
949
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 11:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
We have found many ways to kill intie fleets. One of our hawk pilots took on 4 solo last night http://kb.adventoffate.com/index.php/kill_detail/833070/ http://kb.adventoffate.com/index.php/kill_detail/833069/ split them at a gate and killed the 2 that didn't aggro. (the stiletto was the first to arrive from a fleet we had nearby but did zero damage). It is very hard to catch ceptors so the trick is to let them catch you Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
HTC NecoSino
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
73
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 12:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm So Pretty wrote:HIC idea is fine. Borderline uncatchable is not. This also means nullified T3 get F'd by the HIC though.
+1
Equip 2 bubbles, 1 with script, 1 without. All things die. |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
385
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 12:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
It would be cool if Interdictors maybe could launch a special bubble that stopped them. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
60
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 12:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
i would be fine for any changes that make intercepters easier to catch again if all titan bridges and jump bridge networks were removed from the game and cyno's too for increased ammounts of k-space to k-space wormholes to force people to populate their areas of null and not leave it empty |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1208
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
oh no, my battleships sitting on the gates into my systems cant instablap anything that comes through with impunity! muh safety in zero-security space!
maybe counter an inty gang with an ACTUAL INTY gang, then once you have one or two of them tackled, bring in a cruiser or battlecruiser to mop up. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
183
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.
As soon as you do that the only way to fly will be with a hictor using only that script. -1 for homogenizing gameplay. |
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Alundil
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
464
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Posted - 2014.04.15 15:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:this would be game breaking - so no the damn things are so fragile...... I imagine an assault frig fleet might have some fun, as would a smart-bombing BS group Assault frigs are bad news for ceptor fleets...as they should be. Nice counter to them.
OP is mistaken though.
Ceptor fleets are fun. Contrary to his stated claim, no Sov is in danger of being lost to roving gangs of interceptors. It is possible to kill them. It is possible to bait them (think very tanky xlasb rlml stuff - and enjoy George R. R. Martin's newest story "A game of wrecks").
OP (and his friends) simply needs to make a concerted effort to stop them and not rely on placing 20+ bubbles on gates for "security". Fun fact - there's a large number of CFC and PL renter systems with well over 20 large bubbles on multiple gates. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me (but perfect for interceptor fleets). Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3839
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
3 Points:
1.) Interceptor fleets are fun to fly in. It makes traveling 80 systems while roaming reasonable, and allows even the farthest areas of space to be visited.
2.) Interceptors can be countered. You just need the right ships to do it. We all understand they run away when you do this, but everyone runs away when you bring a counter to their fleet. Tis the way of things.
3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic, and should not have been implemented on ANY ships. I would very much like this mechanic nerfed some. GÖª Note: A several years ago CCP "accidentallied" the interdiction nullification subsystem so nullified ships could warp out of a bubble, but if there was a drag/catch bubble properly setup at their destination, they'd get pulled into it. I desperately wish CCP would again "accidentally" implement this change again, and leave it there forever! That would go a long way in balancing this ugly mechanic.
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
336
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic
No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3839
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic
No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.
Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game.
Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship.
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
337
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic
No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic. Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game. Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship.
Different strokes, I guess. In my opinion, bubbles give the campers/home team a game-breaking advantage, and I think you know this. Before the interceptor change, traveling from point A to point B could be completely shut down by an active gate camp. On paper, this might sound very appropriate for EVE's harsh universe, but I think that in practice, it just translated to poor gameplay.
After having tried hisec, lowsec, and nullsec, I'm starting to think that lowsec offers some of the best gameplay, and the lack of bubbles is a huge part of this. When we get a pod in low, it means we had competent fast-tackle, and even then, the pilot probably still had a chance to get his pod out provided they knew what they were doing.
I respect that you enjoy the null-life, and support your right to bubbles. Just saying that nullified intys provided a much needed fix to this broken game mechanic. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3842
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic
No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic. Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game. Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship. Different strokes, I guess. In my opinion, bubbles give the campers/home team a game-breaking advantage, and I think you know this. Before the interceptor change, traveling from point A to point B could be completely shut down by an active gate camp. On paper, this might sound very appropriate for EVE's harsh universe, but I think that in practice, it just translated to poor gameplay. After having tried hisec, lowsec, and nullsec, I'm starting to think that lowsec offers some of the best gameplay, and the lack of bubbles is a huge part of this. When we get a pod in low, it means we had competent fast-tackle, and even then, the pilot probably still had a chance to get his pod out provided they knew what they were doing. I respect that you enjoy the null-life, and support your right to bubbles. Just saying that nullified intys provided a much needed fix to this broken game mechanic.
I'm not a fan of "You shall not pass" gate camps. When I'm out soloing though, I often use drag/catch bubbles to pull ships off a gate or a Jump bridge so I can destroy them, as well as dictate my engagement starting range.
My changes to Nullification would still allow you to move from point A to point B fairly unmolested. It does mean that you cannot warp gate to gate though, as you may be caught in a drag bubble. This makes having tacs around a gate and preplanning yoru route much more important, as obstacles may exist on your route.
Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes. However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
337
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I'm not a fan of "You shall not pass" gate camps. When I'm out soloing though, I often use drag/catch bubbles to pull ships off a gate or a Jump bridge so I can destroy them, as well as dictate my engagement starting range.
My changes to Nullification would still allow you to move from point A to point B fairly unmolested. It does mean that you cannot warp gate to gate though, as you may be caught in a drag bubble. This makes having tacs around a gate and preplanning yoru route much more important, as obstacles may exist on your route.
Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes.
I think maybe we're forgetting that we're talking about a single ship class here. Interceptors used to be fairly useless flying coffins. Now they actually have a role which you already covered: "having tacs around a gate and preplanning your route". The only opposition I have to your idea is that it proposes a nerf where I'd rather see a buff. If interdiciton nullifier was a module that could be fit to any ship, that would be a different situation.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.
I haven't done much with covops, so I can't speak to that. Perhaps they need to be nullified too?
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3843
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote: I think maybe we're forgetting that we're talking about a single ship class here. Interceptors used to be fairly useless flying coffins. Now they actually have a role which you already covered: "having tacs around a gate and preplanning your route". The only opposition I have to your idea is that it proposes a nerf where I'd rather see a buff. If interdiciton nullifier was a module that could be fit to any ship, that would be a different situation.
Our opinions are so opposite. I have been using interceptors in fleets for the last 5 years, and I've never had the opinion that they are "fairly useless flying coffins". In my experience, that statement is so far from the truth I can't comprehend how you came to that belief. Perhaps you simply PvP in lowsec as a pirate, where gate guns destroy interceptors and ruin much of their utility. In nullsec, a good inty pilot is often the MVP of the fleet.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.
But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.
They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.
If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.
It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.
Where is the fun?
I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...
I don't see the point.
EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script. really? again? AFK cloaking is not a thing.; at best it's a misnomer for someone laying in wait not afk. You don't have to leave or log. You have a lot of options.. it's not my fault you can't think of them. Just one is you can set up a trap using your own cloakers. The AFK can't hurt you...a cloaked ship cannot hurt you.. watch local and go about your business. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
NearNihil
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
124
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Introduce a new kind of probe for the dictors and/or a script for the hictors that adds mass to things around it (increasing align time, reducing speed) and I'll support it. None of this "disrupts warp through immunity" bollocks. |
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