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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 56 post(s) |
Cheradenine Harper
Ankh-Morpork Holiday Homes
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:19:00 -
[1201] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Xaniff wrote: 2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).
Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.
See the Abandoned POS thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=333764&find=unread http://diaries-of-a-space-noob.blogspot.co.uk |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:25:00 -
[1202] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:What? Did someone just say scaling taxes apply to POS owners? Really? My manufacturing and research at the POS I'm paying 450m a month in fuel to run... is going to be taxed?
Or do you mean starting a job on the station floor, not at the actual POS? Scaling costs will apply to all, just think of it as overhead on machine refits/repairs/scaling up plant lines etc.
No. I'm thinking of it as a tax on manufacturing in high sec, additional to the existing cost I already incur running a POS and one I cannot escape even with several highly skilled characters. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:32:00 -
[1203] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Or increased maintenance costs on automated systems, just like factories in rl...things aren't magically made from goods, they are processed and that carries inherent overheads no matter where you do it. CCP could model this by making manufacture jobs consume mechanical parts and robotics per run, test cultures, bacteria, Water cooled CPU etc for research runs. This would simply add complexity though (Unless the super whizzy GUI will deal with the nastiness).
My factory is completely automated. All of the things necessary to make it run and maintain it are included in the "fuel block". Remember how all of that stuff was combined into a block to make running a POS less of a pain in the butt?
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
363
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:38:00 -
[1204] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Or increased maintenance costs on automated systems, just like factories in rl...things aren't magically made from goods, they are processed and that carries inherent overheads no matter where you do it. CCP could model this by making manufacture jobs consume mechanical parts and robotics per run, test cultures, bacteria, Water cooled CPU etc for research runs. This would simply add complexity though (Unless the super whizzy GUI will deal with the nastiness).
My factory is completely automated. All of the things necessary to make it run and maintain it are included in the "fuel block". Remember how all of that stuff was combined into a block to make running a POS less of a pain in the butt?
I was just making an example case for why, but it stands to reason that the more you push the factory the more it'll cost in maintenance overheads. Would you rather this be a tax for simplicity or shipping more fuel blocks which as you say contain all the goodies required for maintenance etc...and as far as I know stations are almost always manned in some way or another. We just don't list crew as it would over-complicate things. A fully automated system will fail at some piont no matter how good it is. The more complexthe system, the more failures. Squishy humans will always be required to a degree |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:40:00 -
[1205] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: I was just making an example case for why, but it stands to reason that the more you push the factory the more it'll cost in maintenance overheads. Would you rather this be a tax for simplicity or shipping more fuel blocks which as you say contain all the goodies required for maintenance etc...and as far as I know stations are almost always manned in some way or another. We just don't list crew as it would over-complicate things. A fully automated system will fail at some piont no matter how good it is. The more complexthe system, the more failures. Squishy humans will always be required to a degree
It was CCP who changed POSs to use the same amount of fuel regardless of which modules you had onlined there, not me. As far as I'm concerned, 28,800 fuel blocks a month on a large POS is already covering everything I can fit on it. If they want to *reduce* my fuel cost if I offline modules, fine I have no problem with that. Otherwise, just piling on even more costs will have a single effect on me as a small business owner: I'll take down the POS and not bother building any more.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
363
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:47:00 -
[1206] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: I was just making an example case for why, but it stands to reason that the more you push the factory the more it'll cost in maintenance overheads. Would you rather this be a tax for simplicity or shipping more fuel blocks which as you say contain all the goodies required for maintenance etc...and as far as I know stations are almost always manned in some way or another. We just don't list crew as it would over-complicate things. A fully automated system will fail at some piont no matter how good it is. The more complexthe system, the more failures. Squishy humans will always be required to a degree
It was CCP who changed POSs to use the same amount of fuel regardless of which modules you had onlined there, not me. As far as I'm concerned, 28,800 fuel blocks a month on a large POS is already covering everything I can fit on it. If they want to *reduce* my fuel cost if I offline modules, fine I have no problem with that. Otherwise, just piling on even more costs will have a single effect on me as a small business owner: I'll take down the POS and not bother building any more.
I'm new to POS management and will be setting one up just as soon as I can so I'm thinking CCP expect this will balance out...and less profit is better than no profit so many people will consider quitting then just carry on as is and accept it.. Also I would expect that your POS would still manufacture the same amount after the release as it does now without incurring costs. I *think* the change is that if you stack more jobs onto a lab than its optimal rating it will incur the stacking costs per extra job. This is yet to be made clear in a future blog though.
As a side note I only just earned the standings required to stand up a POS but am not concerned about the time this has taken due to the other benefits from having done so. I have no issue with dropping the standings requirement but would like to see it have some impact in some way on the whole S&I area to benefit those who have gone through the grind. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
559
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:50:00 -
[1207] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: I'm new to POS management and will be setting one up just as soon as I can so I'm thinking CCP expect this will balance out...and less profit is better than no profit so many people will consider quitting then just carry on as is and accept it.. Also I would expect that your POS would still manufacture the same amount after the release as it does now without incurring costs. I *think* the change is that if you stack more jobs onto a lab than its optimal rating it will incur the stacking costs per extra job. This is yet to be made clear in a future blog though.
As a side note I only just earned the standings required to stand up a POS but am not concerned about the time this has taken due to the other benefits from having done so. I have no issue with dropping the standings requirement but would like to see it have some impact in some way on the whole S&I area to benefit those who have gone through the grind.
Well, in the absence of any clarity we surely can't draw any conclusions. Specifically it isn't clear how R&D and manufacturing at POS's is affected by all of this. |
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:54:00 -
[1208] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:What? Did someone just say scaling taxes apply to POS owners? Really? My manufacturing and research at the POS I'm paying 450m a month in fuel to run... is going to be taxed?
Or do you mean starting a job on the station floor, not at the actual POS? Scaling costs will apply to all, just think of it as overhead on machine refits/repairs/scaling up plant lines etc. No. I'm thinking of it as a tax on manufacturing, additional to the existing cost I already incur running a POS and one I cannot escape even with several highly skilled characters. It implies I have to run around all over the place to find the lowest (temporary) manufacturing cost. That might be different to the place where I can get the lowest research cost. All of my stuff gets spread around. I can no longer have a "base of operations" if I care about my costs (which I do). I have to manage it all and it's going to be a gigantic pain in the butt.
But it isnt tax, thats what you are wrong about.
A factory can churn out 50 jobs per day at cost X what is now. But said factory in teh future can churn out 100 jobs at cost Y, but no one said it cant do just 50 jobs at cost X still. Just when you get over the amount it is ment for scaling cost should come into play.
No point in getting all angry and huffpuff abou tthese changes when we only have half of the info. Look forward to that next devblog where they'll go more in detail about that scaling cost and how it works exactly.
if 50 jobs turn into cost Y and not stay at cost X, then sure go ahead and be all angry lol |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
363
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:55:00 -
[1209] - Quote
nope, the next 4blogs should cover this
I'm thinking the number of blogs is a good indication of the extent of the S&I overhaul...can only be a good thing but I'm sure there will be ...niggles... |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:04:00 -
[1210] - Quote
Firvain wrote:
But it isnt tax, thats what you are wrong about.
A factory can churn out 50 jobs per day at cost X what is now. But said factory in teh future can churn out 100 jobs at cost Y, but no one said it cant do just 50 jobs at cost X still. Just when you get over the amount it is ment for scaling cost should come into play.
No point in getting all angry and huffpuff abou tthese changes when we only have half of the info. Look forward to that next devblog where they'll go more in detail about that scaling cost and how it works exactly.
if 50 jobs turn into cost Y and not stay at cost X, then sure go ahead and be all angry lol
I don't see anywhere that the costs of manufacturing are going to be the same. I see them scaling with how popular the factory is. But what isn't clear to me is whether a POS assembly array is classed as a "factory" for the purposes of said costs. If it is, how is the cost to be calculated? I'm going to be taxed for running jobs in my own factory?
I don't know what your other point is. At the moment I churn out 50 jobs a day at cost 50X. After the expansion, I will still churn out 50 jobs a day but my cost will be 50X + tY, where Y is some scaling function and t is the current job number. I have no idea and I don't think CCP do either. |
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Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:11:00 -
[1211] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Firvain wrote:
But it isnt tax, thats what you are wrong about.
A factory can churn out 50 jobs per day at cost X what is now. But said factory in teh future can churn out 100 jobs at cost Y, but no one said it cant do just 50 jobs at cost X still. Just when you get over the amount it is ment for scaling cost should come into play.
No point in getting all angry and huffpuff abou tthese changes when we only have half of the info. Look forward to that next devblog where they'll go more in detail about that scaling cost and how it works exactly.
if 50 jobs turn into cost Y and not stay at cost X, then sure go ahead and be all angry lol
I don't see anywhere that the costs of manufacturing are going to be the same. I see them scaling with how popular the factory is. But what isn't clear to me is whether a POS assembly array is classed as a "factory" for the purposes of said costs. If it is, how is the cost to be calculated? I'm going to be taxed for running jobs in my own factory? At the moment my POS factory slot cost is zero. ZERO. When I factor in the fuel cost of my POS, it's actually quite expensive (450m a month to run). I don't know what your other point is. At the moment I churn out 50 jobs a day at cost 50X. After the expansion, I will still churn out 50 jobs a day but my cost will be 50X + tY, where Y is some scaling function and t is the current job number. I have no idea and I don't think CCP do either.
Except that your additional cost of tY might well turn out to be zero (or near zero) for the same number of jobs your POS can currently handle. With the benefit, that you can install even more jobs, but then your tY will indeed increase. Right now however all this is speculation until CCP releases exact numbers ;)
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Kenhi sama
Project Stealth Squad The Initiative.
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:12:00 -
[1212] - Quote
So will the new system be capabl of remembering setting, like if you want to setup 10 jobs with the same values? |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
561
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:18:00 -
[1213] - Quote
Banko Mato wrote: Except that your additional cost of tY might well turn out to be zero (or near zero) for the same number of jobs your POS can currently handle. With the benefit, that you can install even more jobs, but then your tY will indeed increase. Right now however all this is speculation until CCP releases exact numbers ;)
As a business person, I don't like uncertainty. Whether or not my current or planned run is profitable depends to a large extent upon certain costs I know I'm going to incur. For me the cost is crystallised when I actually buy the moon goo or components or minerals. Everything else is fixed. But now it seems CCP are going to introduce a variable cost factor I have no way of predicting. It's really quite obnoxious. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5600
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:32:00 -
[1214] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Banko Mato wrote: Except that your additional cost of tY might well turn out to be zero (or near zero) for the same number of jobs your POS can currently handle. With the benefit, that you can install even more jobs, but then your tY will indeed increase. Right now however all this is speculation until CCP releases exact numbers ;)
As a business person, I don't like uncertainty. Whether or not my current or planned run is profitable depends to a large extent upon certain costs I know I'm going to incur. For me the cost is crystallised when I actually buy the moon goo or components or minerals. Everything else is fixed. But now it seems CCP are going to introduce a variable cost factor I have no way of predicting. It's really quite obnoxious. Well, we know that the exact cost will be shown before you run the job. What we don't know if if you can put together "hypothetical" manufacturing runs to see what the cost would be. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:37:00 -
[1215] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I do hope they are looking at a full mission overhaul now for maybe the winter release since standings grind is no longer as necessary (though it still gives access to higher mission levels, better refining etc)
Standings are still required for reprocessing & refining except if you want to use an array at a POS. Sounds like more 'dumbing down' of the game doesn't it. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
561
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:40:00 -
[1216] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Well, we know that the exact cost will be shown before you run the job. What we don't know if if you can put together "hypothetical" manufacturing runs to see what the cost would be.
Of course they aren't going to do that, no. It's developer effort. I will be able to see what the current cost is for a manufacturing slot but what am I supposed to do if it's now too high? Move my stuff - move my POS, what? How often am I supposed to do this? I have hundreds of containers with BPCs in, are CCP going to make it easier to move my business from one system to the next? Are they going to make it safer? Of course they aren't.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
868
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:48:00 -
[1217] - Quote
"So player corporations will now have the choice between the safety of NPC stations or the efficiency of Starbases to operate. The core goal is to motivate player entities to actually defend their Starbases if attacked or be reactive enough to take the blueprints out before they go into reinforced mode.
We are aware of the significance of this change and do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner, but we do feel it to be a good trade-off for smaller blueprints."
This tells me that CCP is totally clueless.
Industrial corps do everything they can to avoid war, therefore, they have NO PvPers.
There is nothing you can do to get 10 guys in exhumers to go defend their POS against any corp that is a real risk to a POS.
New EVE industry... cranking out BPCs from you high sec large, super hardened POS.
This is going to be a HUGE pain. huge, huge, huge pain
And it is NOT going to have the stated effect.
You can not force us to play the way you want us to play, because you can not force us to play.
PvPers need to be content to go PvP against other players that want to PvP. You are never going to get industrialists to play in a way that makes them easy kills for PvPers.
Oh, it would be easy to kill industrialists if CCP would just change..... WRONG! Industrialists will just change what they do, so that they remain safe.
We're not suddenly going to jump into PvP ships and become easy kills for skilled PvPers. Never going to happen! |
Arana Mirelin
Te'Rava Industries
35
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:48:00 -
[1218] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Well, we know that the exact cost will be shown before you run the job. What we don't know if if you can put together "hypothetical" manufacturing runs to see what the cost would be.
Of course they aren't going to do that, no. It's developer effort. I will be able to see what the current cost is for a manufacturing slot but what am I supposed to do if it's now too high? Move my stuff - move my POS, what? How often am I supposed to do this? I have hundreds of containers with BPCs in, are CCP going to make it easier to move my business from one system to the next? Are they going to make it safer? Of course they aren't.
Your best bet for any kind of answer is to wait for the dev blog about pricing. My quick read, at least inferred from what was said, is that I expect the price to be based on the activity at the location in question. So public slots are going to be at the whim of everyone else there as well. For POS arrays, it is probably more controllable for a solo or small team industrialist.
Again, all of this is speculation only for now, and the changes are not coming tomorrow. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
872
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:57:00 -
[1219] - Quote
Will the cost changes be such that a 0% increase in cost is equal to the current amount of production slots being used and after all the slots are filled only then will you get the 1-14% increase in cost? Will future stations' 0% costs be equal to current capacity and only after that will the cost increases occur, or is overall future "capacity" being lowered with increased costs?
For example, if a current station currently has 10 slots and only 7 are being used, then the future station would have a 0% cost increase. After 10 jobs are installed in the future summer station, the 11th job would then get a 1-14% cost increase? Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:57:00 -
[1220] - Quote
I presume NPC tax costs to do jobs at NPC stations are going to have to be increased a lot from their current levels to rival the costs of POS fuel production otherwise there may be no point in running a research POS in high sec. |
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
561
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:58:00 -
[1221] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: PvPers need to be content to go PvP against other players that want to PvP. You are never going to get industrialists to play in a way that makes them easy kills for PvPers.
CCP could even things up by allowing us industrialists to fit tracking devices to the items we make and/or to booby-trap them so they random explode, taking out the player with them. Otherwise, Indy PvP is Indy PvP, same but different. We PvP on price, efficiency, cost, market manipulation.
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Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:04:00 -
[1222] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Banko Mato wrote: Except that your additional cost of tY might well turn out to be zero (or near zero) for the same number of jobs your POS can currently handle. With the benefit, that you can install even more jobs, but then your tY will indeed increase. Right now however all this is speculation until CCP releases exact numbers ;)
As a business person, I don't like uncertainty. Whether or not my current or planned run is profitable depends to a large extent upon certain costs I know I'm going to incur. For me the cost is crystallised when I actually buy the moon goo or components or minerals. Everything else is fixed. But now it seems CCP are going to introduce a variable cost factor I have no way of predicting. It's really quite obnoxious. Well, we know that the exact cost will be shown before you run the job. What we don't know if if you can put together "hypothetical" manufacturing runs to see what the cost would be.
you can, they said so in a post |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
562
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:08:00 -
[1223] - Quote
Firvain wrote: you can, they said so in a post
For a single run, yes. But the costs will scale if you put on, say, 20 or 40 runs at the same time, as one often does. Is that cost predictable?
Another problem I have: If slots are being removed, are they being retained at POS's? If not, how is that going to work?
So much confusion. But from what I've read so far it's going to make the whole business intensely annoying to manage. |
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Card Shark Industries
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:36:00 -
[1224] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Well, we know that the exact cost will be shown before you run the job. What we don't know if if you can put together "hypothetical" manufacturing runs to see what the cost would be.
Of course they aren't going to do that, no. It's developer effort. I will be able to see what the current cost is for a manufacturing slot but what am I supposed to do if it's now too high? Move my stuff - move my POS, what? How often am I supposed to do this? I have hundreds of containers with BPCs in, are CCP going to make it easier to move my business from one system to the next? Are they going to make it safer? Of course they aren't. Agre thers will be to mutch work being a industrialist in hi sec nowe,mowe your production matrials to different stations and have to get finnished products from different stations aarrrg Time=monny,,,,lower copy time sounds good but marked will change faster and more items made dont give anyon a better price margin on trade,And 1 more thing ccp want to make eve marked look like real life marked,but i dont have a stock of skilled workers doing calculation or hauling may stuff.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
363
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:43:00 -
[1225] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I do hope they are looking at a full mission overhaul now for maybe the winter release since standings grind is no longer as necessary (though it still gives access to higher mission levels, better refining etc) Standings are still required for reprocessing & refining except if you want to use an array at a POS. Sounds like more 'dumbing down' of the game doesn't it. Standings are also still required to work for higher level mission agents. Standings are still required to reduce taxes incurred from trading on the market. Have I missed any other current reasons to have high standings ?
Research agent level, although that needs addressing during the S&I changes...you get nowhere near enough datacores foor it to be useful to invention, I proposed a while back that RP can be used directly in an invention job at a preferential rate, though you could still create a datacore and sell it if you chose. |
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Card Shark Industries
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:45:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Firvain wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:What? Did someone just say scaling taxes apply to POS owners? Really? My manufacturing and research at the POS I'm paying 450m a month in fuel to run... is going to be taxed?
Or do you mean starting a job on the station floor, not at the actual POS? Scaling costs will apply to all, just think of it as overhead on machine refits/repairs/scaling up plant lines etc. No. I'm thinking of it as a tax on manufacturing, additional to the existing cost I already incur running a POS and one I cannot escape even with several highly skilled characters. It implies I have to run around all over the place to find the lowest (temporary) manufacturing cost. That might be different to the place where I can get the lowest research cost. All of my stuff gets spread around. I can no longer have a "base of operations" if I care about my costs (which I do). I have to manage it all and it's going to be a gigantic pain in the butt. But it isnt tax, thats what you are wrong about. A factory can churn out 50 jobs per day at cost X what is now. But said factory in teh future can churn out 100 jobs at cost Y, but no one said it cant do just 50 jobs at cost X still. Just when you get over the amount it is ment for scaling cost should come into play. No point in getting all angry and huffpuff abou tthese changes when we only have half of the info. Look forward to that next devblog where they'll go more in detail about that scaling cost and how it works exactly. if 50 jobs turn into cost Y and not stay at cost X, then sure go ahead and be all angry lol so way making this changes at all if non hawe to mowe lol |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
363
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:53:00 -
[1227] - Quote
I'd also suggest we wait and see what the whole 'team' concept is too...could be good and mitigate lots of the effort..could be horrid :D |
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Card Shark Industries
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:09:00 -
[1228] - Quote
Lucy Riraille wrote:Although I like the announcement that Industry gets an overhaul, which it nedded pretty badly, I am somewhat confused about CCP's masterplan to whip any player who wishes to do some things efficiently into sov nulsec!
This is just a plain bad idea. We know that CCP just loves nulsec and wants as many players as possible to go there.
BUT
Very few players live in Nulsec because of ****** game mechanics! Poor POS Management, awoxers, afk cloaky neuts,
Now industrial slots in Hisec will become absirdly expensive while Mittens sweethearts will be able to use outpost slots for far less? Will all the hordes of nulsec industrialists be able to satisfy demand of Hisec?
NO!
Simply put: there are too few ibdustrialists in nulsec. And, as GSF and Mittens officially **** on prodders and miners, this change will have a tremendous impact on EVE ingame economics.
Unfortunately, CCP Management fails to understand that as Nulsec residents are simply a minority of eve players and that the majority of Industry and prodding takes place in Hisec and that this has been successfully so for many years, CCP executives do everything they can to nerf Hisec, the home of the majority of EVE players in a way that hopefully a few thousand industrialists will look at the changes, evaluate them and then throw their BPOs in the trash, quit their accounts and leave EVE for the elder scrolls online.
Ice has become a limited resource, thx to mechanic changes, Fuel prices raised a bit as icemining outside hisec became so profitable that the demand on the market could still b fulfilled.
Now every newbie plaer will be able to put a pos anywhere he likes. Why shouldn't there be any standing needed? At least some effort or at least someone elses effort (POS standing service) was needed to have a POS. Corps payed rent for offices at stations (ISK DRAIN, good against inflation) so thexy could do research and produciton independently from the limitd availability of slots at stations. People used to laugh at other people who accidentally or deliberately stored their bPos inside a POS.
Why do you change this before putting POS management right?
Why do you want to punish poeple who have spent BILLIONS of ISK in BPOs research time and caring and refuelling of POSses? In order to get better defense capabilities, will we be able to get starbase defense management as a starter skill? With no number of controllable pos modules perhaps?
Game development in EVE lacks a clear transparent und publicly advertised goal!
On the one hand, CCP removes effort/skill requirements for some things so that new player might have easier access (i.E. T1 industrial revamp and other examples). On the other hand highly specialized chars (time intensive skillings) are hit by the nerf hammer as the activites they trained for years now will be far profitable.
Does CCP wants us all to sit in Nulsec, permagrinding anos for faction and officer loot, making billions of isk? Like all the bot ratters in deklein?
Why does CCP wants to increase the income of all these nulsec RMT, that make hundreds of thousands of They only love more things that allowe more things to be blown up.they are stedy but slowly adjusting hi sec to be more like low sec.they just want to se howe fare they can go before loosing subs so they take small steps ich update,if all nerf to hi sec and indy pilots that hawe been don sins i started had been don in 1 patch like upcomming patch they will hawe lost a lott more subs i think |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
151
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Posted - 2014.04.17 15:16:00 -
[1229] - Quote
Abstract: Efficiency matters. CCP is creating large enough differences in efficiency that many methods may be unprofitable. Queue whining about transportation costs.
EVE_Wiki wrote:Production Efficiency - The most critical skill for any production character. After you've bought it, train it until you reach Level 5. Production Efficiency is the single biggest must-have skill to be effective and competitive when producing goods, and unlike many skills, the payoff for reaching Level 5 is worth it. ... Each level trained in this skill will reduce the skill based material multiplier of 1.25 by 4%, which effectively translates to a 5% reduction in materials used to manufacture items per skill level.
A common mistake for young industrialists is to avoid that long level 5 train. They then do their calculations and discover that they cannot profitably make things. The last 5% reduction in material costs is required to make production profitable for many items particularly T1 items. Efficiency matters.
CCP is discussing adding a 0-14% congestion fee based on "base price." As pointed out to a young industrialist that spread is sufficient to make things unprofitable. The EVE players will find the one way (or two if we are lucky) to profitably make those items. Yes everyone can make things more expensively but a real industrialist does not worry so much about the fools throwing away money.
Who will have the efficiency to produce things the one way? We can guess that Jita Station manufacturing will be around the 14% mark. Perhaps a fully upgraded player owned Amarr outpost will be nearly 0%. We don't know where POSes will be. We don't know if low or null sec will get special bonuses. Crucially we don't know the formula for how fast the number of production jobs will push up the cost of production. It is possible that one fully upgraded Amarr outpost will be able to outproduce high sec with acceptable margins. CCP does not even need to intend that consequence they just need to make a small mistake in numbers.
Transportation costs may significantly influence final costs. Even with a high efficiency null sec might have problems with transportation. I expect more whining about how hard it is to move things and how freighter sizes (or tanks) must be increased. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2014.04.17 15:35:00 -
[1230] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Firvain wrote: you can, they said so in a post
For a single run, yes. But the costs will scale if you put on, say, 20 or 40 runs at the same time, as one often does. Is that cost predictable? Another problem I have: If slots are being removed, are they being retained at POS's? If not, how is that going to work? So much confusion. But from what I've read so far it's going to make the whole business intensely annoying to manage.
It will be interesting to see projected costs, for example the T2 Invention process, a process which recommends the using of max run T1 bpc's to ensure optimum runs of the T2 bpc's in this case probably around 3 to 8 runs per T2 bpc copy, allowing for a players skills amongst other things. In this example those new Hull repair drones are max runs of 1500 per bpc copy plus getting the optimum ME and PE costs onto the BPO first, all thess extra costs will apply not just for this one simple example item but everything that is made will have to be passed onto the consumer, THAT MEANS ALL OF YOU PILOTS! are you listening out there.
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