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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
633
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Posted - 2014.04.15 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I was remembering the days when dropping corp to avoid wardecs was considered an exploit.
Ah, memories.
As most of the posters in C&P are aware, it's easy.....too easy....to avoid wardecs.
Not to mention the outright silliness of being immune from hisec wardecs by staying in an NPC corp.
So...I began drinking heavily, and then it came to me in a flash.
What if you could wardec individuals, regardless of what corp they are in?
A new form of wardec, called Vendetta?
Proposal: Anyone can 'Declare a vendetta' vs anyone else for 50 million ISK per week. Both parties in a Vendetta can attack each other anywhere in hisec. Their corpmates (if any) are NOT included in the Vendetta. Dropping/joining corps does NOT shed a Vendetta.
This would include players in NPC corps.
This would be in addition to normal wardecs. IE, someone wardecs my corp, I drop corp, they can't attack me (without getting CONCORDed anyway). If someone also declared a Vendetta against me, that person could attack me (and vice versa) regardless of my corp status.
CAVEAT: Trial accounts cannot declare a Vendetta nor can they be Vendetta'd.
IMO this would add a further element of risk to hisec, and help deal with the whole wardec avoidance exploit (and yes IMO its an exploit).
End of proposal.
*turns on hardeners and gets thermal resist to 99%* Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2014.04.15 15:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
RIP every Freighter, Orca, and Mission Runner in Hisec.
EDIT: obviously I approve. |
Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
30
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's a pretty cool idea. I suspect CCP would prefer to coddle their new members for longer than you are proposing, and I am willing to bet that 0.0 logistics teams will hate this idea (goon npc freighters, I'm looking at you).
It is a pretty cool idea though.
Being able to go after a single individual would be pretty awesome, but imo it would still end up with the ol' "well I guess I just don't undock for 7 days."
This (or something similar) combined with a reason to actually fight in wars would be a good combination. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever.
SolidX > i'm an alt IRL |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
575
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fantastic idea on all fronts.
Want to intercept nullsec supply lines? Check.
Want to pop that mouthy NPC doucher? Check.
Want to bounty hunt? Check.
A great idea. You should have it moved to the right sub-forum so that it could get some attention. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
443
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Posted - 2014.04.15 20:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
I may get flamed for this seeing as this is C&P, but my god this is a terrible idea. I'm all for making it harder to escape wardecs and providing incentives to fight back, but the only purpose of this is to target a specific player for any reason you can dream of. This is insanely abusable, and strongly favors veterans over newer players. Finally, this completely breaks security on any sort of high sec operations due to the ability to single out specific players in a fleets while not beign threatened by the rest of the corp. Consider dropping this sort of targeted wardec being levied against the logis in an incurison fleet. They would bring danger to the entire fleet and have to defend themselves solo in a logisitcs ship. You could use this to shut down player's access to their primary profession.
I sincerely hope you are trolling. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
638
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Posted - 2014.04.15 21:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Never said it was perfect...and yeah, I'm well aware it could be abused by Certain Types of Players.
*looks at Goons*
Ahem.
Anyway.......this is why I threw it out here. Let you guys chew on it and maybe come up with some ways to make not so abusable.
Maybe make it so you can only Vendetta players within +/- 10% of your skill point total, or within +/- 90 days of your characters age.
Being this is a variant of the dec mechanics, they are going to get a 24 hour warning period, so it isn't like you can do this and start blazing away 10 seconds later..... Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1440
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Posted - 2014.04.15 22:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Never said it was perfect...and yeah, I'm well aware it could be abused by Certain Types of Players.
*looks at Goons* not a goon here.
however i would use this feature like there is no tomorrow....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
173
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Posted - 2014.04.15 22:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sounds like **** to me. Don't get me wrong I'd be all up in it. I can see it already though. Resist fit vindicators with 20 logistics in tow. If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough. |
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
17
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Posted - 2014.04.15 22:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
With such game system there should not even need of High-Sec in fact; it's faster, and more logical in this case to transform all high-sec systems into low-sec ones than to have something that can follow a player until no end or until he/she unsub. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2600
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is a very solid idea in need of a little polishing. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
444
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Never said it was perfect...and yeah, I'm well aware it could be abused by Certain Types of Players.
*looks at Goons*
Ahem.
Anyway.......this is why I threw it out here. Let you guys chew on it and maybe come up with some ways to make not so abusable.
Maybe make it so you can only Vendetta players within +/- 10% of your skill point total, or within +/- 90 days of your characters age.
Being this is a variant of the dec mechanics, they are going to get a 24 hour warning period, so it isn't like you can do this and start blazing away 10 seconds later..... Eh, I really don't like sp totals or age as a restriction. I was thinking making it ONLY target-able at characters in NPC corps. When they join a corp the vendetta would be turned into a wardec for the remaining period. If a player drops corp during nay wardec, they would have a vendetta for the remaining period of the dec. If this happened I would like to see an increase in corp wardec costs to make it actually be safer to be in a corp than solo. Obviously there needs to be a minimum character age before being targeted by such a mechanic. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Amyclas Amatin
xX-Crusader-Xx Li3 Federation
229
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Suppose instead of having Vendettas, penalties for dodging decs were actually enforced. Or make it such that the corporate stasis time for members leaving the corp during a wardec is longer. Make the act of joining and leaving a corp more serious and committed.
Maybe all players could be given a 1 week "Probation" period when they join a corp to allow them to leave if it's not suitable for them, after which they may not leave the corp without going through 1 week of corporate stasis. Joining a corp would be like choosing a family, and not something done lightly. All CEOs should also be unable to close a corporation without a 1 week closing time. Enforce this and decs become effectively undodgable without excessive isolation and harassment of individual players. Players can still sit in npc corps and pay npc taxes if they really want to. We could further penalize npc corp squatting by imposing additional taxes/penalties on all refining, contract costs and market transactions. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Winchester Steele
980
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Make your vendetta be the penalty for dropping corp during a wardec. You leave corp you are stuck in a vendetta for 7 days with the aggressors corp.
Just a thought. ... |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
641
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Posted - 2014.04.16 02:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Eh, I really don't like sp totals or age as a restriction. I was thinking making it ONLY target-able at characters in NPC corps. When they join a corp the vendetta would be turned into a wardec for the remaining period. If a player drops corp during nay wardec, they would have a vendetta for the remaining period of the dec. If this happened I would like to see an increase in corp wardec costs to make it actually be safer to be in a corp than solo. Obviously there needs to be a minimum character age before being targeted by such a mechanic.
That's a damn good idea, that. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
641
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Posted - 2014.04.16 02:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote: Suppose instead of having Vendettas, penalties for dodging decs were actually enforced.
Unfortunately there are no penalties for dodging decs anymore, CCP no longer considers it an exploit.
Amyclas Amatin wrote: All CEOs should also be unable to close a corporation without a 1 week closing time. Enforce this and decs become effectively undodgable without excessive isolation and harassment of individual players. Players can still sit in npc corps and pay npc taxes if they really want to. We could further penalize npc corp squatting by imposing additional taxes/penalties on all refining, contract costs and market transactions.
That's a pretty good idea too. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
97
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Posted - 2014.04.16 06:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think Mr Rhubarb said it best when he pointed out how easy this would be to abuse. Look I get it, you want to kill people who annoy you. Over and over. I want their friends to be able to help them so they dont just say "oh well I'll go level my panda for a week" because thats bad for the game!
Why don't we all just agree that getting rid of concord and letting us all shoot each other without being headshotted is a far better system? and campaign for that instead? Vote for me for CSM10. Erotica 1: "I would create a massive pyramid scheme in Eve to show you what it is, but I'm an honest business person, so you'll just have to find education elsewhere. Start with the wiki link that was linked by a person who didn't even read what he linked." Theres a reason I play eve XD |
Pubbie Spy
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.16 09:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is a good idea. |
Caerfinon
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
127
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Posted - 2014.04.16 10:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
As long as there is a counterweight to it, something like all members of the vendetta target's corp (NPC or not) have the ability to activate kill rights on the person who issued the vendetta at any time during the duration of the vendetta. Consequences for actions are necessary. Cheers C. |
Cavalira
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
320
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Posted - 2014.04.16 10:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why don't you just move to low/nullsec? |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
792
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Posted - 2014.04.16 11:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't see this happening especially now with CCP being harsh with players that target other players for harassment. Currently corp on corp war is not targeted at specific players and allows the weaklings some form of escape. The last thing CCP wants is an unsub because that player was unable to play for weeks or months due to something he said on teamspeak caused another person to hold a grudge.
This being said I don't see much use for it with the exception of some kind of personal grudge. Most highsec war I've seen is about catching idiots that think their safe running missions or mining. Targeting a corporation of carebears will most likely yield a few that think this resulting in easy kill mails.
Normally with my highsec pilots during a war if it's a corp that will actually fight rather than station/ Orca/ logi games I'll go play. Other than that I'll stay docked and play on my other pilots. I've pissed off people in RL (And the other way around) because of stuff said in teamspeak so I can see this being used as a form of personal harassment. I would just move to nullsec but I can see this would cause some to unsub after a few months. Like it or not some want to play this game in highsec so they won't choose this option. |
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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
301
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Posted - 2014.04.16 12:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
I like this idea and thus can't approve of it, because it would completely wreck the game. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
900
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Posted - 2014.04.16 14:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I like this idea and thus can't approve of it, because it would completely wreck the game. And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'?
Just askin.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1892
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Posted - 2014.04.16 14:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Solecist Project wrote:I like this idea and thus can't approve of it, because it would completely wreck the game. And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'? Just askin. F
Solecist has a love/hate relationship with EvE. I believe he biomassed the last incarnation of Solecist Project who was an active ganker in his day. He lothed every other ganker because they were not doing it right. For instance, they weren't Solecist Project while ganking. But he has been around. "You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion
***** Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM ***** |
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1021
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Posted - 2014.04.16 15:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Solecist Project wrote:I like this idea and thus can't approve of it, because it would completely wreck the game. And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'? Just askin. F Solecist has a love/hate relationship with EvE. I believe he biomassed the last incarnation of Solecist Project who was an active ganker in his day. He lothed every other ganker because they were not doing it right. For instance, they weren't Solecist Project while ganking. But he has been around. It was Solstice Project back then, and he sold it. |
Winchester Steele
993
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Posted - 2014.04.16 15:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cavalira wrote:Why don't you just move to low/nullsec?
Because he wants to play in hi-sec. It's fun to find interesting new ways to shoot at people who don't want to be shot at. And who said he never went to low/null?
Why the **** do you care anyway? ... |
Bumsicle Wedgie
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2014.04.16 16:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Cavalira wrote:Why don't you just move to low/nullsec? Because he wants to play in hi-sec. It's fun to find interesting new ways to shoot at people who don't want to be shot at. And who said he never went to low/null? Why the **** do you care anyway?
I believe he mad a suggestion, and whilst we're being all gangsta and up in yo face an ****...
Who the **** are you anyway? |
Subject 4927
AwoxxowA
38
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Posted - 2014.04.16 16:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've been playing EVE for i'd say 9 years now. This has to be one of the worst ideas i have ever seen on C&P and on the forums in general. Most of my time in EVE I've spent doing safari's (awoxing), Ganking and generally pissing people off for my enjoyment.
That being said, I don't think we should mess with highsec mechanics (most of them). Highsec is where people like me get things done. It's important to keep highsec the way it is for the most part. I like to compare it to hunting. Sure you go hunt and shoot baby deers and what not, But you don't chop down all the trees and strip the forest. Carebears will always be more valuable to CCP thus anything can could hinder that user base won't even be looked at. All we can do is use the rules put in place to do what we enjoy.
Also, If someone drops corp because of a wardec, Don't use C&P to complain. Just gank him if you really need to kill him.
This topic opens up so many more cons on putting war's on mining corps then it does pros. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1894
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Posted - 2014.04.16 17:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shederov Blood wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Solecist Project wrote:I like this idea and thus can't approve of it, because it would completely wreck the game. And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'? Just askin. F Solecist has a love/hate relationship with EvE. I believe he biomassed the last incarnation of Solecist Project who was an active ganker in his day. He lothed every other ganker because they were not doing it right. For instance, they weren't Solecist Project while ganking. But he has been around. It was Solstice Project back then, and he sold it.
If you are going to require I spell things correctly you will need to find some way to limit my intake of rum. But I stand corrected on those two points. "You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion
***** Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM ***** |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
642
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Posted - 2014.04.17 01:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Actually I am making this proposal not because 'I want to shoot stuff', but because once upon a time CCP considered evading war decs an exploit, and NPC corps weren't supposed to be the perfect place to hide, they were supposed to be placeholders while you looked for (or made) a player corp to join.
Altho I admit I want to do something violent when I see one player with 50+ alts in a mining fleet. And they are all in NPC corps.
And yes I'm one of those players that wish CCP would ban ISboxer.
Probably the closest thing to my idea that CCP would even consider is having a wardec 'follow' anyone who dropped corp during a dec (for however long CCP decides), and I would consider that a vast improvement.
As for NPC corps in general, CCP could definitely encourage players to not stay in them by assessing a very high sales tax on ANY financial transaction they make.
Say, 50% or so. On ANY sale or purchase.
Or, even better, simply make it so players in an NPC corp have much larger penalties for reprocessing and manufacturing.
Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
100
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Posted - 2014.04.17 05:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Actually I am making this proposal not because 'I want to shoot stuff', but because once upon a time CCP considered evading war decs an exploit, and NPC corps weren't supposed to be the perfect place to hide, they were supposed to be placeholders while you looked for (or made) a player corp to join.
Altho I admit I want to do something violent when I see one player with 50+ alts in a mining fleet. And they are all in NPC corps.
And yes I'm one of those players that wish CCP would ban ISboxer.
Probably the closest thing to my idea that CCP would even consider is having a wardec 'follow' anyone who dropped corp during a dec (for however long CCP decides), and I would consider that a vast improvement.
As for NPC corps in general, CCP could definitely encourage players to not stay in them by assessing a very high sales tax on ANY financial transaction they make.
Say, 50% or so. On ANY sale or purchase.
Or, even better, simply make it so players in an NPC corp have much larger penalties for reprocessing and manufacturing.
I agree players should be playing together, not ignoring each other and essentially playing solo. The problem is all you have there is a very large stick without any carrots. The current state of the war dec mechanics PUNISHES players foolish enough to leave the npc corps. Gevlon goblin argues that any player in a high sec pve corp is pretty much by definition a moron who doesn't understand the game and should be treated as such: Its hard to argue with him when I see the community treat him as such and feast on the inevitable tears.
As it stands the penalty for being in a player corp (your free lunch for predators) doesnt outway any possible benefits. A 50% tax rate? fine my trader character is in its own corp in a station where it never undocks and has perfect refine. It contracts ships to my npc corp miners who contract the ore back to it. Just dodged your stick. wheres your carrot? Erotica 1: "I would create a massive pyramid scheme in Eve to show you what it is, but I'm an honest business person, so you'll just have to find education elsewhere. Start with the wiki link that was linked by a person who didn't even read what he linked." Theres a reason I play eve XD |
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