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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15112
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 20:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:After reading the Dev Blog, just considering what will this actually mean, and I am thinking perhaps this is partly to try and make high sec manufacturing extremely uneconomical. It all depends on what CCP will set for the cost and how much it increases based upon the number of people wanting to use the station. Any chance you can give us the formula CCP as right now the repercussion are a little hazy? So, is this now going to make high sec manufacturing now not so desirable? After all, this could be a big buff to low sec if all industrialists will have to relocate out there to get good a decent profit margin. Also - "Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements" This is going to be interesting. Devblog - Building Better Worlds
Reading is, after all, pretty difficult. I mean when you think about it, that's a three stage ascending complexity process; converting pictographics into phonemes; converting those phonemes into discrete words; converting the combined and ordered words (and the associated context) into a transcending meaning. And that's without even going into technical jargon, nuance, irony or dialectical variations.
Really, it's not that it's surprising that some people are bad it it: it's amazing that anyone can do it at all. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Type VIIb
AirHogs Zulu People
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 20:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'll reread this when I get home but this sure seems like the final nail in the coffin for me.
The POS anywhere bit will kill one of my income streams. It also means that there will be a land grab and forced wars for moons. You single man corps are going to get bowled over eventually (it'll take a while).
For the PVP types, enjoy, but the casual small player is getting forced deeper and deeper in to the cracks of the game. I have no desire to be forced in to a large group and listen to corp politics drone on or be wardecced in to ineffectiveness. For me, at the end of a play session if I have to ask myself if I am having fun then that is a sign things are going in the wrong direction.
No, you can't have my stuff. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1889
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 20:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice. I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this: 1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS; 2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts; 3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed; 4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3. 5) Give up on new moon.
The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15112
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 20:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Type VIIb wrote:I'll reread this when I get home but this sure seems like the final nail in the coffin for me.
The POS anywhere bit will kill one of my income streams. It also means that there will be a land grab and forced wars for moons. You single man corps are going to get bowled over eventually (it'll take a while).
For the PVP types, enjoy, but the casual small player is getting forced deeper and deeper in to the cracks of the game. I have no desire to be forced in to a large group and listen to corp politics drone on or be wardecced in to ineffectiveness. For me, at the end of a play session if I have to ask myself if I am having fun then that is a sign things are going in the wrong direction.
No, you can't have my stuff.
Why don't you wait to see how the story ends before you decide it's a tragedy? Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Type VIIb
AirHogs Zulu People
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 20:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice. I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this: 1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS; 2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts; 3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed; 4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3. 5) Give up on new moon. The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense.
Yeah, that'll be great. Large roaming TALOS fleets burning down POS after POS over beers. People will love that. |
Dealth Striker
Striker Ltd
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dealth Striker wrote:They really have to let us remap our skills
With all these major changes it really affects one's play style. They are making some skills less desirable and others more desirable. No, they really don't. If something is more desirable than before, just train for it.
Thanks for offering your advice on one part of the comment It is really the other part that is more important Striker Out!! |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
564
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:I'll be watching; if they nerf high sec too much I will have no choice but to quietly slip away, saving myself a subscription fee. This is hardly a highsec nerf, though. It's a universal industry buff that, at most and as it has been described so far, hits nullseccers who have to rely on POSes more than anyone. I'm hoping that is case. we'll see. I want to benefit from a change for once lol. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:After reading the Dev Blog, just considering what will this actually mean, and I am thinking perhaps this is partly to try and make high sec manufacturing extremely uneconomical. It all depends on what CCP will set for the cost and how much it increases based upon the number of people wanting to use the station. Any chance you can give us the formula CCP as right now the repercussion are a little hazy? So, is this now going to make high sec manufacturing now not so desirable? After all, this could be a big buff to low sec if all industrialists will have to relocate out there to get good a decent profit margin. Also - "Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements" This is going to be interesting. Devblog - Building Better Worlds Reading is, after all, pretty difficult. I mean when you think about it, that's a three stage ascending complexity process; converting pictographics into phonemes; converting those phonemes into discrete words; converting the combined and ordered words (and the associated context) into a transcending meaning. And that's without even going into technical jargon, nuance, irony or dialectical variations. Really, it's not that it's surprising that some people are bad it it: it's amazing that anyone can do it at all. Very nice, a typical Malcanis post. I must be doing something right. |
Dealth Striker
Striker Ltd
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Type VIIb wrote:I'll reread this when I get home but this sure seems like the final nail in the coffin for me.
The POS anywhere bit will kill one of my income streams. It also means that there will be a land grab and forced wars for moons. You single man corps are going to get bowled over eventually (it'll take a while).
For the PVP types, enjoy, but the casual small player is getting forced deeper and deeper in to the cracks of the game. I have no desire to be forced in to a large group and listen to corp politics drone on or be wardecced in to ineffectiveness. For me, at the end of a play session if I have to ask myself if I am having fun then that is a sign things are going in the wrong direction.
No, you can't have my stuff. Why don't you wait to see how the story ends before you decide it's a tragedy?
Yes by no means offer up your opinions (especially if they are negative) Wait until it plays out and then give your opinion. That way CCP can turn around and say "Well you never said anything when it was talked about"
You sure are going out of your way to try and bait people
Striker Out!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15114
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Type VIIb wrote:La Nariz wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice. I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this: 1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS; 2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts; 3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed; 4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3. 5) Give up on new moon. The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense. Yeah, that'll be great. Large roaming TALOS fleets burning down POS after POS over beers. People will love that.
Let me tell you about strontium clathrates. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20795
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dealth Striker wrote:Thanks for offering your advice on one part of the comment It is really the other part that is more important You mean the other part that I also commented on?
No, they don't have to let us remap our skills (since this would break things horribly).
When they make major changes that affects your play style and make some skills more desirable than before, you can just train for them. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:I'll be watching; if they nerf high sec too much I will have no choice but to quietly slip away, saving myself a subscription fee. This is hardly a highsec nerf, though. It's a universal industry buff that, at most and as it has been described so far, hits nullseccers who have to rely on POSes more than anyone. POS users will just have to change their production models and add a copy process to the beginning of the total manufacturing chain. It isn't really a big inconvenience considering CCP are both buffing the entire industry interface, and reducing copy times.
This will inevitably benefit systems which are being least used at the moment if CCP get their formula for station tax correct. |
Type VIIb
AirHogs Zulu People
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Type VIIb wrote:La Nariz wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice. I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this: 1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS; 2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts; 3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed; 4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3. 5) Give up on new moon. The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense. Yeah, that'll be great. Large roaming TALOS fleets burning down POS after POS over beers. People will love that. Let me tell you about strontium clathrates.
You don't need to, the drunken roam can have a hangover follow up the next day or so.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20796
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:38:00 -
[74] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Tippia wrote:This is hardly a highsec nerf, though. It's a universal industry buff that, at most and as it has been described so far, hits nullseccers who have to rely on POSes more than anyone. POS users will just have to change their production models and add a copy process to the beginning of the total manufacturing chain. It isn't really a big inconvenience considering CCP are both buffing the entire industry interface, and reducing copy times. This will inevitably benefit systems which are being least used at the moment if CCP get their formula for station tax correct. Pretty much. It's actually kind of funny to stand back and watch how, on one side of the court, people are screaming about how this will require them to research more copies, and on the other side, people are screaming about how their research corps are being rendered useless because no-one will require additional research any more.
In the end, I except that the logistics chain of large-scale manufacturing will be tossed around a bit, but all the pieces are there and just need to be put back in the right (new) place.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11169
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Tippia wrote:This is hardly a highsec nerf, though. It's a universal industry buff that, at most and as it has been described so far, hits nullseccers who have to rely on POSes more than anyone. POS users will just have to change their production models and add a copy process to the beginning of the total manufacturing chain. It isn't really a big inconvenience considering CCP are both buffing the entire industry interface, and reducing copy times. This will inevitably benefit systems which are being least used at the moment if CCP get their formula for station tax correct. Pretty much. It's actually kind of funny to stand back and watch how, on one side of the court, people are screaming about how this will require them to research more copies, and on the other side, people are screaming about how their research corps are being rendered useless because no-one will require additional research any more. In the end, I except that the logistics chain of large-scale manufacturing will be tossed around a bit, but all the pieces are there and just need to be put back in the right (new) place.
Im waiting on the rest of the info to land before I try to get answers to my questions. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 21:56:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's a universal industry buff that, at most and as it has been described so far, hits nullseccers who have to rely on POSes more than anyone.
A universal buff won't increase profits of manufacturing. Because manufacturers compete against each other. If everyone becomes 20% more effective, then they lower their margins by 20% to compensate.
The only people who benefit from such a buff are people who buy goods, because everything is 20% cheaper now. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
514
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Type VIIb wrote:La Nariz wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice. I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this: 1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS; 2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts; 3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed; 4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3. 5) Give up on new moon. The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense. Yeah, that'll be great. Large roaming TALOS fleets burning down POS after POS over beers. People will love that.
That magical Talos POS burning fleet has a few weaknesses. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20800
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Tippia wrote:It's a universal industry buff that, at most and as it has been described so far, hits nullseccers who have to rely on POSes more than anyone. A universal buff won't increase profits of manufacturing. Because manufacturers compete against each other. If everyone becomes 20% more effective, then they lower their margins by 20% to compensate. The only people who benefit from such a buff are people who buy goods, because everything is 20% cheaper now. GǪand also the manufacturers, since they'll suffer from less RSI and fewer grey hairs. Everyone wins. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1885
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense.
Was that in the devblog? I missed it. "You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion
***** Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM ***** |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:25:00 -
[80] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Thibault Etienne wrote:
Come on CCP. I hope you really aint thinking of making hi sec manufacturing less efficient. It makes no sense.
For the game it does make sense. What has lacked sense, based on what I see the nullsec crowd and the 2 or 3 industrialists out there (*snark!), is that players in complete control of their facilities do not have as much control over the efficiency of them as much as the cost and logistics of emplacing, defending, and maintaining them would imply. Given what they wanted, and for the reasons they cited over the years (I recall some of the goons being vocal about this) we would see a day of "Nullsec super-production facilities" that would put the production and value of a highsec installation to shame. While I don't have a dog in the fight, it only seems logical to conclude that if someone is going to pay for SOV and defend it, then having some balls-to-the-wall production capabilities is only fitting.
Based on everything we have seen, creating passive income sources for null sec doesn't make people fight over it. It just reinforces cartels.
Industry based income encourages stability. Small groups can't break it up and the big guys can agree not to attack each other's industry. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20802
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:La Nariz wrote:The solution to this is, attacking POS in highsec is now a suspect level offense instead of a criminal level offense. Was that in the devblog? I missed it. Nowhere. It's just something people dream of because they can't be arsed with waiting 25 hours. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Doireen Kaundur
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
This is why I dont bother manufacturing. The grind just got worse. A great American humorist and author recently said: "The one unintentional flaw of the internet generation is its ability to give the stupidest segments of our population the loudest voices." I have a tendency to agree with his statement.-á |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:GreasyCarl Semah wrote:Nolen Cadmar wrote:Thibault Etienne wrote: Come on CCP. I hope you really aint thinking of making hi sec manufacturing less efficient. It makes no sense.
I hope they do exactly that....Risk vs Reward. Highsec = low risk, so low reward. Lowsec=higher risk, therefore higher reward. Makes perfect sense, that is why the most profitable manufacturing in the world is done in Somalia... Yes, but if you were able to manufacture in Somalia, it would be more profitable than in the US as you wouldn't have to pay any tax. You'd just need to hire a private army to take care of the pirates. Quite a fitting example when relating this to eve I think.
Where this breaks down is that the game enforces stability. Somalia would be quite safe if it operated on Eve mechanics(rebel guerilla fighters need to spend a few hours attacking your factory, then wait a day and attack again, or they need to attack during the 30 seconds you are teleporting to the USA).
My issue with this is that small groups can't get into null sec industry. Its hard enough to start manufacturing if you live in high sec. |
Doireen Kaundur
697
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:37:00 -
[84] - Quote
I want a T3 Battle Badger. A great American humorist and author recently said: "The one unintentional flaw of the internet generation is its ability to give the stupidest segments of our population the loudest voices." I have a tendency to agree with his statement.-á |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
566
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:Can you imagine how many HIgh-Sec POS's are going to be going BOOM after this summer patch? Imagine all the Merc groups and other PVPer's tracking down all the POS's with labs and wardeccing those corps. It will only cost you 50 million to war dec and the chance of a 100mill plus BPO dropping is going to be huge. How many of these small size alt corps actually log in each day and look for wardecs?
I see a lot of tears coming to the forums soon as POS bashing comes back in style.
There're dire predictions like this before every patch, and the results are never anywhere near as destructive as the predictions say. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
566
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
Type VIIb wrote:You single man corps are going to get bowled over eventually (it'll take a while).
You know, I've heard there's some mercenaries out there who remove or defend POSs for a price If only someone knew who these jokers were... How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20803
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:41:00 -
[87] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Volar Kang wrote:Can you imagine how many HIgh-Sec POS's are going to be going BOOM after this summer patch? Imagine all the Merc groups and other PVPer's tracking down all the POS's with labs and wardeccing those corps. It will only cost you 50 million to war dec and the chance of a 100mill plus BPO dropping is going to be huge. How many of these small size alt corps actually log in each day and look for wardecs?
I see a lot of tears coming to the forums soon as POS bashing comes back in style. There're dire predictions like this before every patch, and the results are never anywhere near as destructive as the predictions say. GǪespecially since none of the POSes will contain any BPOs. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Doireen Kaundur
697
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Im scared. Someone hold me? A great American humorist and author recently said: "The one unintentional flaw of the internet generation is its ability to give the stupidest segments of our population the loudest voices." I have a tendency to agree with his statement.-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15117
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hey kids!
Who is super looking forward to the next industry devblog? Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15117
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
Dealth Striker wrote:Malcanis wrote:Type VIIb wrote:I'll reread this when I get home but this sure seems like the final nail in the coffin for me.
The POS anywhere bit will kill one of my income streams. It also means that there will be a land grab and forced wars for moons. You single man corps are going to get bowled over eventually (it'll take a while).
For the PVP types, enjoy, but the casual small player is getting forced deeper and deeper in to the cracks of the game. I have no desire to be forced in to a large group and listen to corp politics drone on or be wardecced in to ineffectiveness. For me, at the end of a play session if I have to ask myself if I am having fun then that is a sign things are going in the wrong direction.
No, you can't have my stuff. Why don't you wait to see how the story ends before you decide it's a tragedy? Yes by no means offer up your opinions (especially if they are negative) Wait until it plays out and then give your opinion. That way CCP can turn around and say "Well you never said anything when it was talked about" You sure are going out of your way to try and bait people
Making hay while the sun shines! Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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