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oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 08:05:00 -
[91] - Quote
I'm So Pretty wrote:The #1 reason carebears do not fight in wars is because the people wardeccing them treat them like they are sub-human. They look down on them, taunt them and put themselves on a pedestal above them.
Until the mercs/ganker community learns to show respect to all players irrespective of their career choice, carebears will continue to do everything in their power to avoid interaction with such players. They will group all merc and gank corps into this category. No amount of monetary incentive is going to change this. They just don't want to play video games with them.
My old industrial corp was wardecced by 6 seperate entities over time. 5 of them were mercs; we never undocked once to fight them. The 6th was an industrial corp that didn't like our presence in their area. We undocked and fought them several times with a smile on our faces.
Considering you're an enforcer for CODE., do you really question why carebears refuse to play video games with you?
nope, thats maybe ture for you but not for any carebear corp i have joined. |
motie one
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 08:35:00 -
[92] - Quote
There seems to be a basic disconnect with reality in this entire concept.
The first disconnect is that Carebears need to be cured. No, no they don't they are quite happy not being what they are choosing not to be. They do not want to be you!
The second disconnect is that carebears would Love to be a victim if they were given a few shineys. No, no they wouldn't
The third disconnect is that a few industrialists could give good fights to a Wardec collective, no, they would be victims.
The fourth disconnect is that Carebears should be forced to be victims if they are not willing, it is good for the game. Exactly whose game? Certainly not theirs, It is not their role to exist for your pleasure.
People are not Stupid, they know when they are just exploited for some one else's pleasure. Do not expect them to suddenly like it.
If carebears or frankly anyone who drops out of corp or stays in station, wanted to PvP against unwinnable odds well there's always a few gatecamps between Hs and null, and sometimes they go on little roams and have fun. They die, good game.
Being a victim that can be killed at any time in HS is not so much fun, as you are just a pawn in someone else's game, played for their pleasure, and played for their satisfaction. What the hell is good for them, or could ever be, in that |
motie one
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 08:49:00 -
[93] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Again, under current mechanics and motivations I fully agree with you, and I actually lol'd at the chess club analogy.
What I'm trying to look at, is ways of encouraging a change in the way carebears see this game. I would like to provide them with incentive to come out of their PVE shells and experience the excitement of PVP. Eve allows you to be competitive at both Chess and football on the same character, you just have to make people want to do that.
No, no you want victims, And you want CCP to force them to jump in front of your guns. You do not want PvP you want low cost, low effort ganking. There is a great difference between Pvp and ganking. So you want carebears to experience the excitement of being ganked?
What makes you "special"? Why Should CCP force paying customers to exist for your pleasure. See above post for a more detailed explaination. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2148
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 10:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
motie one wrote:stuff about carebears = "victims"
You're not a "victim" if you don't want to be. I'm a pretty solid carebear (seriously, have had 5's across the board in mining since like 2009 [edit -- and **** you CCP for taking away my public display of such]), and never feel that I'm a "victim" if I'm dec'd.
Last time I was in a corp that had people, we gave them this breakdown (paraphrased a bit):
1. We've gotten dec'd by mercs ... it means stuff. Best guess is they're working for [other mining corp] that we've been cnstantly out-mining. 2. within the next 12 hours, give me or [other dirs] your top three frigates to fly 3. Here are 5 of each of them (fitted). We expect you to lose them with us. 4. oh, and I'll personally pay 10m ISK per corpse. 5. We've found the mining corp's POS 1 jump over. We'll plan to retaliate shortly. POS bash is sucky, and even more so because we're in hisec ... but they started this, we're gonna finish it.
War goes by, we lose a handful of frigates (lol T1 trash fits) ... but end up coming out (barely) on top in the ISK war (and one guy gets two pods).
Few weeks later, we dec that mining corp, and remove their POS. Unfortunately while it was a loot pinata setup, there wasn't anything overly special in the labs. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
PlatinumMercSEAL wrote:I did some thinking on how to penalize for staying docked with war targets outside of station, decrease their efficiency in industry and trade. -remote skills -refining -time on blueprint usage/research -PI
Nerf the station based skills for corporations and its members that are at war when there is a war target within 150 km from the station they are currently in, whether they are online or offline. I originally thought system, but we don't want safe spots to become an issue. I do think the combat corp should earn that affect on the other corp, not just sit in a safespot. This wont cost them a lot in fees, but will give an incentive to fight. It should also follow them when they leave corp until the war is over for that corp.
As most wars in the real world go, when the enemy controls the area, it usually does it best to jam enemy communications, which would be remote industry and trade for high sec industrialists. This sounds realistic and fair to me.
yeah, absolutely not. Keeping them docked prevents their activity enough.
@motie
didnt read the thread then?
The idea is not to force them anywhere. merely give incentive to fight back. The defenders can still chose not to undock should they decide for themselves that the incentive is not worth it. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
motie one
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:13:00 -
[96] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:motie one wrote:stuff about carebears = "victims" You're not a "victim" if you don't want to be. I'm a pretty solid carebear (seriously, have had 5's across the board in mining since like 2009 [edit -- and **** you CCP for taking away my public display of such]), and never feel that I'm a "victim" if I'm dec'd. Last time I was in a corp that had people, we gave them this breakdown (paraphrased a bit): 1. We've gotten dec'd by mercs ... it means stuff. Best guess is they're working for [other mining corp] that we've been cnstantly out-mining. 2. within the next 12 hours, give me or [other dirs] your top three frigates to fly 3. Here are 5 of each of them (fitted). We expect you to lose them with us. 4. oh, and I'll personally pay 10m ISK per corpse. 5. We've found the mining corp's POS 1 jump over. We'll plan to retaliate shortly. POS bash is sucky, and even more so because we're in hisec ... but they started this, we're gonna finish it. War goes by, we lose a handful of frigates (lol T1 trash fits) ... but end up coming out (barely) on top in the ISK war (and one guy gets two pods). Few weeks later, we dec that mining corp, and remove their POS. Unfortunately while it was a loot pinata setup, there wasn't anything overly special in the labs.
I am sure you agree, that that is the more unusual and rare example of a wardec. Probably the original intention by CCP. Somehow not quite working as originally intended unless they really are hiding a few psycopaths behind closed doors....... |
motie one
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:15:00 -
[97] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:PlatinumMercSEAL wrote:I did some thinking on how to penalize for staying docked with war targets outside of station, decrease their efficiency in industry and trade. -remote skills -refining -time on blueprint usage/research -PI
Nerf the station based skills for corporations and its members that are at war when there is a war target within 150 km from the station they are currently in, whether they are online or offline. I originally thought system, but we don't want safe spots to become an issue. I do think the combat corp should earn that affect on the other corp, not just sit in a safespot. This wont cost them a lot in fees, but will give an incentive to fight. It should also follow them when they leave corp until the war is over for that corp.
As most wars in the real world go, when the enemy controls the area, it usually does it best to jam enemy communications, which would be remote industry and trade for high sec industrialists. This sounds realistic and fair to me. yeah, absolutely not. Keeping them docked prevents their activity enough. @motie didnt read the thread then? The idea is not to force them anywhere. merely give incentive to fight back. The defenders can still chose not to undock should they decide for themselves that the incentive is not worth it.
My post clearly explains why the idea has absolutely no possibility of working. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:28:00 -
[98] - Quote
i see a bunch of misconceptions uve have EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1052
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:34:00 -
[99] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PlatinumMercSEAL wrote:I may have fallen behind 2 weeks on the subject, (college work can be a pain) but I have to agree with Frostys here. What is the benefit to the aggressors? Though there isn't any benefit to attacking such corps, but I can probably think of a few special situations, like being paid by another corp to war dec the corp. Sadly, that is rare. Where is the competition between industry corporations? Now it will never happen, and you can thank the genius behind the 50+ million ISK war fee! This is the failing in thinking of all carebears, honestly. Why, when we are playing a sandbox game, do I need a reason to shoot you? Why do you think I should require a "benefit"? "Because I can" is always a good enough reason in a sandbox game. As for competing between industry corps, wardec corps will now get more business taking down POS setups. With the coming industry changes, having assets in space will be highly incentivized.
"Because I can" is indeed a good enough reason to try wardeccing any deccable corp in EVE. The fact that it is a good enough reason to start it does not mean you should get anything out of it. Choosing the right target goes a long way into getting what you want. If you make a war with a corp who has assets in space or is a PvP corp, chances are much higher for you to get kills or at least fights than if you wardec a corp made out entirely of missionners for example.
You will never need a REASON to shoot anybody in EVE. What you will always need is a CONDITION to make shooting that same target without CONCORD punishing you for it.
Killrights works. Doing it in low/null/WH space works. Doing it to them while they are a member of a corporation/alliance you are at war with works. Doing it while they are flagged as criminal works. Doing it in a limited engagement works.
Your sandbox has rules. Most of them are punitive after you did something which mean you can still do it as long as you are willing to deal with it. The industry changes will most likely work out in your favor so grow yourself fat while feasting on kills from wardecced corps or abandoned towers if everybody leaves it... |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Some points:
1) PvP is not limted to pewpew. 2) PvP is not limted to pewpew. 3) PvP is not limted to pewpew. 4) See point 1.
You realise you'll never be make people fight who don't have either desire to, or something to lose?
Not ever, not in a million years.
Even if you changed every game mechanic to allow it, all that would happen is they stop playing. Fundamentally people do what is fun to them - if they are avoiding pewpew it's because they dont like it and don't find it fun.
The obvious result of "forcing" people to engage in what they dislike is them firing up a game they do like. Irrespective of what that makes you think of them, it matters not a jot to them. What do people care if pirate_12345 in a game they don't play thinks of them? Betting it's slightly less than the square root of nothing.
In addition if we set that aside for a moment - consider what would happen? Do you think the big nullblocs wouldn't just roll up into high sec, wardec every single person left and shutdown all the hubs everywhere? They would and I guarantee they'd do it, just for the jollies. Frankly I'd be disappointed if they didnt - but that wouldn't be allowed to happen.
I'm sure it all sounds fun and everything until there are no bears left to build your ships or mine the ore.
TL;DR: Expecting other people to play the sandbox YOUR way is fundamentally flawed form the outset. |
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 12:47:00 -
[101] - Quote
Again, read the thread.
post 13# might help u understand the idea behind the thread EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
Don't you think that, neutral RR aside, that if people found it fun that they'd fight? More to the point, if people found it fun - they're probably already out fighting.
A far, far better idea to increase overall pewpew is to encourage people to go to low and make the entry points a little less...lethal. The myth needs to be dispelled that it's instant death when you're down there.
Of course that doesnt fix high sec decs, but it gets more people down into free fire zones and that's what people want right? More fights? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5608
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:21:00 -
[103] - Quote
afkalt wrote: A far, far better idea to increase overall pewpew is to encourage people to go to low and make the entry points a little less...lethal. The myth needs to be dispelled that it's instant death when you're down there.
People continue to believe that lie because it feeds their self victimization narrative, nothing more. Those people have repeatedly demonstrated that they aren't interested in playing EVE like a multiplayer game.
Fortunately, their sentiments in that regard are irrelevant. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:24:00 -
[104] - Quote
For some ppl its about fights. For the carebear it might be about productivity/efficiency an agenda or goal.
90% of the carebears i know really enjoy pew pew PvP. But they still often dock up for 7 days when decced because there is nothing, from their perspective, to gain from fighting. Even when they undock, fight off the aggressors, they can mine or mission for like 5 mintues before the aggressors come back. Even if they smash the aggressors, they still cannot safely engage in day to day PvE until the war dec is over.
For that reason i like the idea of allowing the defenders to end the dec early after completing some objective. There may be indy corps that want to take the opportunity to prematurely end a dec, either by doing it themselves, or hiring mercs to do it for them. And once the dec is over, it allows them to continue as they were before the dec, but sooner than 7 days.
This would not force them anywhere, they dnt have to undock and can follow the tradition of docking up for 7 days. But there would also be an option to 'win' the dec.
But dispelling the 'horror' of low sec is a good way to encourage simple and casual pew pew EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
627
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:25:00 -
[105] - Quote
I floated this idea for corp owned deadspace a little while ago to address similar issues.
The problem you continue to have is that a certain portion of the game population does not want to play mole in your game of whack-a-mole.
It has nothing to do with neutral RR, or any other factor than they just dont want to. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:42:00 -
[106] - Quote
RR is a bigger deal than i think u realise.
Its why 100man corps still feel fairly powerless against 3 man decs. Because there is such a good chance that RR will be involved and they wont be able to break the 3 legions with command link support even if they used 100 cruisers. Ppl have even told me the reason they wont undock even when they outnumber the aggressors is because they are likely to have RR and they just cant get the DPS together.
I know its not going to happen, but if neut RR was impossible the dynamics of decs would transform considerably, and i know several corps/alliances that would be far more prepared to undock and fight when they are decced by corps significantly smaller than themselves. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:44:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:afkalt wrote: A far, far better idea to increase overall pewpew is to encourage people to go to low and make the entry points a little less...lethal. The myth needs to be dispelled that it's instant death when you're down there.
People continue to believe that lie because it feeds their self victimization narrative, nothing more. Those people have repeatedly demonstrated that they aren't interested in playing EVE like a multiplayer game. Well, I don't know. I remember my first trip out of high sec - gate camped. My second one was a trap led into by a corp spy (I was very green at the time). Didnt bother me, but pretending that the high sec chokes are not at artificially inflated danger levels is like saying autopiloting 1000 plexes through udaema is a smart move. Equally pretending that people don't want to prey on easy marks is simply nonsense as it is human nature at its very core to stack the deck in your favour. My experience didnt bother me, I fly in high/low/null these days - but that's because of who I am, it could easily put others off as it'd cement the rumors they have heard. [quote=Kaarous Aldurald]Fortunately, their sentiments in that regard are irrelevant.
Ultimately as I say, you're trying to get people to play how you want. I'm afraid that is doomed to failure. Sandbox, remember. It matters not an iota that you disapprove of their playstyle or what they find enjoyable. There are loads of tools above and beyond war decs to let you make your presence be felt whether they like that or not - suicide, bumps, market disruption. They're not perhaps ideal, but equally people would be idiots to play to your strengths and their weaknesses.
Keep in mind there is more to PvP than pewpew.
There's also a lot of hardened PvPers who fund it through high sec npc corp alts, you would have a lot of unintended consequences. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5609
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:45:00 -
[108] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: But dispelling the 'horror' of low sec is a good way to encourage simple and casual pew pew
The "horror" of low sec hasn't really ever been true.
How do you propose to get people to stop believing that lie, I wonder? Because it damn well better not be "discourage gatecamps". There are few enough ways to force a fight in this game already, and gates are a primary one.
The solution is "don't be stupid", but that seems to be asking too much. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:00:00 -
[109] - Quote
@afkalt
the point kaarous is making is that no feature should be based around a players desire to be alone in this game. this is a multiplayer and PvP centric game. Ppl CAN try and play alone and without influence from other players, but no design decision should be made to cater to such players.
@Kaarous
no. dispelling the 'horror' of low sec shouldnt be done by mechanical means. Really just explaining how to safely traverse low sec and that losing a space ship is not as horrible an experience as many ppl think.
edit- but they try to do the latter in the tutorials...twice lol. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:@afkalt
the point kaarous is making is that no feature should be based around a players desire to be alone in this game. this is a multiplayer and PvP centric game. Ppl CAN try and play alone and without influence from other players, but no design decision should be made to cater to such players.
It is literally impossible to play this game and not engage with others on some level. Unless they mine their own ore, build EVERYTHING they use and sell nothing. EVen then I'm not sure because blueprints.
The flaw in the logic is that the only player interaction in this game is pewpew when in reality it is so much more. Not as "in your face" but it is everywhere.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: But dispelling the 'horror' of low sec is a good way to encourage simple and casual pew pew
The "horror" of low sec hasn't really ever been true. How do you propose to get people to stop believing that lie, I wonder? Because it damn well better not be "discourage gatecamps". There are few enough ways to force a fight in this game already, and gates are a primary one. The solution is "don't be stupid", but that seems to be asking too much.
So people stop being stupid and stop jumping into gate camps - then you don't get your pewpew....what then? Will you complain that chickens aren't marching directly into the foxes lair?
Don't you see? You'll never make them fight. You might make them quit and I'm sure you've no problem with that, me I'm more live and let live. |
|
Lin Suizei
217
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I'll use me as an example - I have a high sec mission alt which you'll never get to fight willingly. Whilst I accept the risk of catalyst death, of course, war? Not ever. I use it to fund another accounts PvP. PvP isn't cheap and the money needs to come from somewhere, that mission bear being vulnerable to more than just suicide raises the question - is it worth the trouble anymore? It's already a big enough pain in the rear to farm isk as it is, having him dodge WTs etc becomes...is it worth it?
Possibly the most reasonable post in this thread, as much as people don't like to admit this is the reality facing many highsec players today. Lol I can't delete my forum sig. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:43:00 -
[112] - Quote
If that alt got decced, would u like to take the opportunity to end the wardec early? perhaps not urself, but hiring mercs to do it if u wanted? or u can just do everything u do now?
(except dropping corp and joining another player corp, personally i dislike that) EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2149
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
motie one wrote:Velicitia wrote:motie one wrote:stuff about carebears = "victims" You're not a "victim" if you don't want to be. I'm a pretty solid carebear (seriously, have had 5's across the board in mining since like 2009 [edit -- and **** you CCP for taking away my public display of such]), and never feel that I'm a "victim" if I'm dec'd. Last time I was in a corp that had people, we gave them this breakdown (paraphrased a bit): 1. We've gotten dec'd by mercs ... it means stuff. Best guess is they're working for [other mining corp] that we've been cnstantly out-mining. 2. within the next 12 hours, give me or [other dirs] your top three frigates to fly 3. Here are 5 of each of them (fitted). We expect you to lose them with us. 4. oh, and I'll personally pay 10m ISK per corpse. 5. We've found the mining corp's POS 1 jump over. We'll plan to retaliate shortly. POS bash is sucky, and even more so because we're in hisec ... but they started this, we're gonna finish it. War goes by, we lose a handful of frigates (lol T1 trash fits) ... but end up coming out (barely) on top in the ISK war (and one guy gets two pods). Few weeks later, we dec that mining corp, and remove their POS. Unfortunately while it was a loot pinata setup, there wasn't anything overly special in the labs. I am sure you agree, that that is the more unusual and rare example of a wardec. Nicely handled, a job well done. That is Probably consistent with the original intention by CCP. Somehow things are mainly not quite working as originally intended, unless they really are hiding a few psycopaths behind closed doors.......
Yeah, other wardecs left the "attacker" hiding in station and/or some crazy-ass timezone that we didn't even play in.
Other ones had us losing horribly ... but hey, **** happens. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:58:00 -
[114] - Quote
No, it's a hassle. I'd drop corp* because the entire reason the char exists is to facilitate other stuff I find fun on a different account.
I dont need hassle on an account that is already a chore to maintain. Unfortunately I'm not so awesome that I can make money from pewpew.
*Well, actually that isnt true. I have insurance set up in the form of appropriately configured clones in low and null for the day a dec comes, I just activate the one in a quiet system and wait it out there doing some anom ratting/exploration. Again though, that becomes a hassle after a while. Remember the character to which I refer is just a money maker, fun is had elsewhere.
Remarkable how many high sec war deccers wont come down there . Yes, I'm confident everyone here is a hero and would be right down, but a lot dont bother. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1052
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:02:00 -
[115] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Don't you see? You'll never make them fight. You might make them quit and I'm sure you've no problem with that, me I'm more live and let live.
You could make them fight if corps were not meaningless shells for tax evasion. Right now, this take the form of POS and POCO. Adding more to this to make corp more meaningful to people will make them fight for their corp. As long as they are meaningless, people will dodge. If there was more benefit to staying in a corp and defending it, people would stick around more. The fact that being a member of a just founded corp gives me just as much as being a year long member of a corp means there is no penalty for dissolving and reforming. This could make people fight more for a corp. The ability to dodge would still be there but it would have a cost people would have to evaluate instead of the "right" move always being dissolve/recreate. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
No, you wouldnt. You'd just see more people in NPC corps. Remember I'm talking about an account (or accounts, I dont suppose many in RvB, for example, are mains) set up exclusively to fund PvP on another.
Edit: wait, you quoted a different post my bad. let me correct.
I would think it would depend. Depends on the inconvenience suffered I guess - you may stop corps folding but you'll still never force engagement from them. If they have stuff worth keeping they'll most likely hire mercs. All of this, however assumes that the attacker actually has a strategic goal which generally seems to be absent. The overwhelming vibe I get from these type of threads is they want indys and barges to shoot at at and gosh why isn't there a giant "force undock" button they can press whilst dressing it up as "but we want good fights, it's not about free kills" whilst giving a host of reasons about why they don't go into low and null. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1052
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:27:00 -
[117] - Quote
afkalt wrote:No, you wouldnt. You'd just see more people in NPC corps. Remember I'm talking about an account (or accounts, I dont suppose many in RvB, for example, are mains) set up exclusively to fund PvP on another.
Edit: wait, you quoted a different post my bad. let me correct.
I would think it would depend. Depends on the inconvenience suffered I guess - you may stop corps folding but you'll still never force engagement from them. If they have stuff worth keeping they'll most likely hire mercs. All of this, however assumes that the attacker actually has a strategic goal which generally seems to be absent. The overwhelming vibe I get from these type of threads is they want indys and barges to shoot at at and gosh why isn't there a giant "force undock" button they can press whilst dressing it up as "but we want good fights, it's not about free kills" whilst giving a host of reasons about why they don't go into low and null.
I want to make the corp be a better strategic objective for both side. More worthwhile to attack to corp itself and more worthwhile to defend. Making dodging the wardec more than a meaningless "puss butan" is my goal. The button is still there but it's not a defacto win for you because you lose nothing while doing so. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:33:00 -
[118] - Quote
The thing is, the attackers are able to choose their targets, and can focus their attacks on soft targets and fall back when they meet hard resistance. Its a guerrilla style fight.
the defenders have no soft targets to counter attack, no assets in space to siege. only combat ready PvP pilots that undock when they are good and ready, command boosts up and RR just out of D-scan range. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:The thing is, the attackers are able to choose their targets, and can focus their attacks on soft targets and fall back when they meet hard resistance. Its a guerrilla style fight.
the defenders have no soft targets to counter attack, no assets in space to siege. only combat ready PvP pilots that undock when they are good and ready, command boosts up and RR just out of D-scan range.
Yes, the defenders have no ability to "win".
Except those rare occasions where indys dec indys, but that is rare indeed.
And I still fear if the consequences for "losing" a war matter enough to get miners out in rifers, well, there's going to be some serious unintended side effects there. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1420
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
giving defenders some way to 'win' not 'lose' is what im pushing at.
aggressors already have their reasons for deccing, thats why they dec. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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