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Amy Alland
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 22:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Skip the text wall if short on time 1: Intro 2: Outlook and game comparison 3. Method 4. Promotion 5. Alternative
1. [Hello EVE Junkies Below is a proposition I do believe players and devs may be interested in. To start I've played the game for over 6 years and have a balanced opinion on all matters eve ; and try to limit any bias.]
2. [Over the past couple years it's become apparent CCP has been attempting to add more styles of game play in order to increase player base and encourage enhancement of the core game; as per main points of various releases this normally includes ships or encouraging new combat scenarios. During these past years a number of games have increased their player base by many factors of ten by enabling limited or complete modding. (steam community).]
3 . [I propose a method to enable players to access certain parts of the eve client for aesthetic modding ; e.g custom ships skins (UV mapping overrides client side), display graphics or OpenGl FX mods. to which these could be distributed via in game or forum.]
4. [Popular aesthetic mods could then be promoted by CCP ; saving development costs in these areas plus allows the use of existing assets to reused in strange and wondrous ways ]
5. [Secondly If partial client decompiling and compiling is not enabled certain uses of recycling of assets include : combining POS module placement code with PVE assets can enable player designed missions, combat testing for recruitment, Limiting enemy fleet effective ships. the list goes on - all of which could be balanced and regulated using various mechanics.]
The financial incentives I doubt need explaining here also.
Please discuss Regards -Amy Alland |
masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1663
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
So you are asking CCP to allow you to freely inject arbitrary code into their client, allow you to redo all your client side graphics, and expose the core of their game?
This is a bot writer's dream.
And "OpenGL FX mods" lol. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1124
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Posted - 2014.04.15 22:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wrong forum.
Take it to the right one. Its quite easy to find. The name is self explanatory. . -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4546
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Posted - 2014.04.15 22:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Wrong forum.
Take it to the right one. Its quite easy to find. The name is self explanatory.
Let me help:
--> Features & Ideas Discussion
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Amy Alland
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for recommending alternate discussion thread.
To those who can't read ; Limited client modding ; this means limited availability to the client via encryption and CCP provided Decompiler(s) |
masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1663
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Amy Alland wrote:Thanks for recommending alternate discussion thread.
To those who can't read ; Limited client modding ; this means limited availability to the client via encryption and CCP provided Decompiler(s)
Via encryption.
Guys I guess it's ok to inject code into the client, it's encrypted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COSeM2EVkDc Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Amy Alland
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
That is why limiting decompilers are used ; please do research before displaying your ignorance |
masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1663
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Amy Alland wrote:That is why limiting decompilers are used ; please do research before displaying your ignorance
Displaying my ignorance?
Even if you decompile only a small part of the client it is possible to hook in anything you want into it. Don't believe me? Well, a good example of such a project is FLHook which allows arbitrary code injection into Freelancer. This lovely mod has allowed many totally new features to be added such as multiplayer storyline missions, jump drives, cloaking devices, sovereignty and clan ownership of space, anti-cheat systems, market economies, manufacturing and crafting, and out of game web integration.
And this is just by injecting a DLL at startup and having that DLL call any plugin in a folder.
Your 'limiting decompiler' is going to expose more than enough. It doesn't matter if the client is encrypted or obfuscated when built, since that key will need to be exposed at some point to run the code, and therefore can be captured.
Also, by allowing players to load assets into the game you are introducing a second route of code injection: malformed resource files. Why do you think so many mail services block images by default? Because they are often used to load code into the library used to decode them for display and attack via buffer overun.
Finally, even if your system is 100% secure (which it won't be, not even close) allowing you to load custom client side models and textures is going to make writing bots super easy. No longer will you have to worry about getting the bot to understand the client, because now you can make the client easier to understand!
Finally, it is going to make patching a nightmare (read impossible). Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
12161
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Guiz... I wuz just killed in mah CQ by a wallHaXxor! Naow hez using Aimbot! AalkdfhaefiaehofAN I wuz just killed thru the floor!
Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! Gu > [Random Player] IS USING HACKS. GAME UNPLAYABLE! ADMIN HELP!!!!! [repeat for 3 hours] Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Amy Alland
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your misunderstanding of the function of a limited compiler is more than enough for me to disregard your defensive retorts. Ignoring this I simply can't be asked to go through the relatively simple procedures to prevent these obvious loop holes you have pointed out. Have a nice day. |
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masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1663
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Amy Alland wrote:Your misunderstanding of the function of a limited compiler is more than enough for me to disregard your defensive retorts. Ignoring this I simply can't be asked to go through the relatively simple procedures to prevent these obvious loop holes you have pointed out. Have a nice day.
Please explain in technical detail how you've solved these problems. Otherwise, your claims that you've solved them hold no weight. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
12162
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Amy Alland wrote:Your misunderstanding of the function of a limited compiler is more than enough for me to disregard your defensive retorts. Ignoring this I simply can't be asked to go through the relatively simple procedures to prevent these obvious loop holes you have pointed out. Have a nice day.
Allowing any kind of client modification would open up vulnerabilities, as well as a vast gray area of interpretation for botters to exploit. Its part of the give them an inch and they take a mile thing. While your intentions might be good, there are 40000 others whos intentions aren't. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Amy Alland
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Amy Alland wrote:Your misunderstanding of the function of a limited compiler is more than enough for me to disregard your defensive retorts. Ignoring this I simply can't be asked to go through the relatively simple procedures to prevent these obvious loop holes you have pointed out. Have a nice day. Allowing any kind of client modification would open up vulnerabilities, as well as a vast gray area of interpretation for botters to exploit. Its part of the give them an inch and they take a mile thing. While your intentions might be good, there are 40000 others whos intentions aren't.
__________ Mm I acknowledged this; another proposal I was going to interject with later was further utilisation of the launcher to avoid some issues. |
Greyscale Dash
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Amy Alland wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Amy Alland wrote:Your misunderstanding of the function of a limited compiler is more than enough for me to disregard your defensive retorts. Ignoring this I simply can't be asked to go through the relatively simple procedures to prevent these obvious loop holes you have pointed out. Have a nice day. Allowing any kind of client modification would open up vulnerabilities, as well as a vast gray area of interpretation for botters to exploit. Its part of the give them an inch and they take a mile thing. While your intentions might be good, there are 40000 others whos intentions aren't. __________ Mm I acknowledged this; another proposal I was going to interject with later was further utilisation of the launcher to avoid some issues.
So your solution depends on another undisclosed solution to be developed at a later date?
But even the best sandboxed runtime or compiler still won't be enough, malware breaks these things all the time. |
Amy Alland
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yup, I'm simply suggesting options to make is possible and secure. I was hoping to see more |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5212
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amy Alland wrote:Yup, I'm simply suggesting options to make is possible and secure. I was hoping to see more Option to keep the client secure (as much as possible): don't let anyone **** with the client. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Hevymetal
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
252
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Posted - 2014.04.16 03:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Let's not and say we didn't.
There are enough bugs in this game and you want to inject your own?
Not to mention the huge hole in security that creates. You can easily MD5 the client side files at the moment to check for tampering. Your idea would nullify that for a majority of those files. |
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