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Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
4
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Posted - 2014.04.21 15:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Saw a couple of posts about how the quantity of T2 items produced thru invention far outweighs the number produced by T2 BPO holders.
That's not really the issue or question, it's the ME/PE difference that matters. Read the difference as profitability. The T2 BPO holder's profit margin is vastly greater than that of an inventors. An inventor can, at best with decryptors, get an ME of -1 or 0 (but then suffers on the PE side).
All that said, i have no real issue with T2 BPOs or their (lucky) holders, I just done think the inventors need to get boned so hard on the ME rates |
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
4
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Posted - 2014.04.21 15:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog Interesting feedback, thx.
Yes, I believe so ... unless I missed something.
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
636
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Posted - 2014.04.21 15:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog
Interesting feedback, thx.
Dat NDA... GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Laendra
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.04.21 19:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tech 2 BPOs are already nerfed. You can get more ISK/hr w/ invention than you lose to BPO owners (assuming single Tech 2 BPO is owned).
Hoping that they allow us to research invented BPCs for material/productivity efficiency, which would allow us to counter the most significant remaining advantage of Tech 2 BPO ownership completely, and make them basically worthless, except for collectors items.
This comes from a Tech 2 ship BPO owner. |
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
4
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
double post, oops |
Proton Power
Evolution Northern Coalition.
14
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Posted - 2014.04.22 16:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Laendra wrote:Tech 2 BPOs are already nerfed. You can get more ISK/hr w/ invention than you lose to BPO owners (assuming single Tech 2 BPO is owned).
Hoping that they allow us to research invented BPCs for material/productivity efficiency, which would allow us to counter the most significant remaining advantage of Tech 2 BPO ownership completely, and make them basically worthless, except for collectors items.
This comes from a Tech 2 ship BPO owner.
Not sure this would make T2 BPO's worthless for this reason:
T2 BPO Owner - Build T1, Build T2 Comps, Build RAM, Build T2 Item, Sell T2 Item: Profit
Current Invention:
Copy BPO, Install Invention Job, Complete T2 BPO Steps
Proposed Invention:
Copy BPO, Research BPC, Install Invention Job, Complete T2 BPO Steps
Notice right now no matter what invention will take more jobs/steps. I am not saying its bad, just saying it won't make T2 BPO's worthless. Possibly less profit, but won't kill them. People don't like doing invention now, add in the extra step of research the BPC in order to kep up with everyone else already doing it, and you get the picture.. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
117
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Posted - 2014.04.22 16:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Eleisa Joringer wrote:They wont be nerfed.... they will keep their efficiency if you put them in a pos.
i wonder when james and his new order will gank POSes
Take a look at what kind of HP even a small tower has. A gank is only a theoretical possibility here.
Wardeccing slowpokes who won't or can't transport their stuff to safety will happen a lot more, however. |
Kun'ii Zenya
The Executives Executive Outcomes
0
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Posted - 2014.04.22 19:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Quote:Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.
An implicit nerf to T2 BPOs? After all, one of the things that slows down invention is copying, speeding that up means that all other factors held constant the inventors will have more BPCs to invent from. More BPCs = more invention. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
23
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bill Sharts wrote:Bpo copy time is also being reduced significantly (all bpos. Even t2). Which could open up a new market for researched t2 bpcs. even before that patch comes in there are some t2 bpo's that are being copied and sold out to people which if you have been in the blueprints channel you would of seen this. on top of that I can honestly say that even if they do change the copy time on t2 bpo's if its not better than production time you wont really see many copies of those bpo's floating around unless its someone who cant be bothered to build no more or they're old copies.
Eleisa Joringer wrote:They wont be nerfed.... they will keep their efficiency if you put them in a pos.
i wonder when james and his new order will gank POSes
im pretty sure regardless if they were to do that it'd take a long time for them to handle a dickstar pos regardless of how many people they threw at it.
Steve Ronuken wrote:Buff: Extra materials are being moved into base materials, in some fashion. so it's possible for ML to affect it. Nerf: If you want to manufacture in a POS, the blueprint has to be in that POS.
that nerf not only affects production but also those who rent out their t2 bpo's as it adds more security issues. |
HeXxploiT
Little Red X
15
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:if i had a T2 BPO i would build in a nullsec outpost. moving T2 BPOs through nullsec is much safer than moving them through high :)
Apparently you've never experienced a good nullsec gatecamp with cans and drones every ten meters. I assure you when the system loads and you see all that red you'll be crying for highsec nomatter what your warp strength is. In highsec you have Concord which actually counts for a lot. |
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Apelacja
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2014.04.30 09:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Summer patch is a boost to t2 bpo`s if i knew it will be like that i will invest into them:/..
Price for coppy and ivention is equal to 4-5% for coppy and 5-6 %for invention. t1 product is ( depends what u are doing) 4-10 times cheaper then t2 so it is marginal but 5-6 % for invention will be quite painfull.
Of course depends what u invent :P and how many runs for coppy u need. in some cases it can be also a meaningfull factor. |
Kun'ii Zenya
The Executives Executive Outcomes
12
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Apelacja wrote:Summer patch is a boost to t2 bpo`s if i knew it will be like that i will invest into them:/..
Price for coppy and ivention is equal to 4-5% for coppy and 5-6 %for invention. t1 product is ( depends what u are doing) 4-10 times cheaper then t2 so it is marginal but 5-6 % for invention will be quite painfull.
Of course depends what u invent :P and how many runs for coppy u need. in some cases it can be also a meaningfull factor.
How do you know this, there are no static numbers so I find your claims rather dubious. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
448
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Posted - 2014.05.01 23:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk. Moving t2 bpo's in high sec is risk free. I do it all the time. CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
[url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url] |
Nerriana
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
7
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Posted - 2014.05.03 15:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:Gilbaron wrote:if i had a T2 BPO i would build in a nullsec outpost. moving T2 BPOs through nullsec is much safer than moving them through high :) Apparently you've never experienced a good nullsec gatecamp with cans and drones every ten meters. I assure you when the system loads and you see all that red you'll be crying for highsec nomatter what your warp strength is. In highsec you have Concord which actually counts for a lot.
And apparently you have never heard of item called "jump drive", which allows you to bypass all those gatecamps. |
Scratchy Nutz
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.03 16:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
83
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Posted - 2014.05.03 16:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs. |
gas guzzler
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
1
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Posted - 2014.05.03 17:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gamer4liff wrote:Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs.
Yeah from what i understand T2 BPOs are getting a huge buff vis a vi the increased cost to run invention jobs and the increase in materials required to build from an invented copy. ME -4 now applies to "other materials" |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1331
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Posted - 2014.05.03 17:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Gamer4liff wrote:Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs.
They said in the dev blog comments they had no solid plans yet, but that they were on the radar.
The comment earlier today was (paraphrased) "We woudn't just take take [T2 BPOs] away." I didn't catch all of the discussion which lead up to that though, was trying to make lunch without missing too much. Hopefully the youtube videos will be up soon (or is there someone here with the HD stream who can check back and see exactly what was said) |
Apelacja
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2014.05.03 19:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:Apelacja wrote:Summer patch is a boost to t2 bpo`s if i knew it will be like that i will invest into them:/..
Price for coppy and ivention is equal to 4-5% for coppy and 5-6 %for invention. t1 product is ( depends what u are doing) 4-10 times cheaper then t2 so it is marginal but 5-6 % for invention will be quite painfull.
Of course depends what u invent :P and how many runs for coppy u need. in some cases it can be also a meaningfull factor. How do you know this, there are no static numbers so I find your claims rather dubious.
there was a spreadsheet of job prices anounced by CCP on forum in one of the topics.
Personally i make JF`es and i think in that case i will be pushed to move to null.
Ps. CCP have plans to T2 bpos for last 5 years....but somehow they never changed it. I doubt that there will be any nerfes as far nothing was mentioned till now. Only some rumors working on wishing way |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
518
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Posted - 2014.05.03 19:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Gamer4liff wrote:Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs.
A guy was bitching that his T2 BPO lost 20% of its value due to impending research changes and CCP Greyscale responded that it will eventually lose all its value. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3157
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Posted - 2014.05.03 19:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Paraphrased: "We need to do somthing about T2 BPOs. We've known this for a while. We're not sure what to do. We won't do anything without notice"
(T2 BPOs aren't currently a problem. But with rebalancing, the dynamic changes. how much needs investigation, after we get final numbers. Like for copying in fully upgraded Gallente Outposts) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
gas guzzler
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
1
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Posted - 2014.05.03 19:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Gamer4liff wrote:Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs. A guy was bitching that his T2 BPO lost 20% of its value due to impending research changes and CCP Greyscale responded that it will eventually lose all its value.
yeah when CCP turns out the lights and the server goes dead.
There's 2 reasons they havent been fixed by now...
either lots of CCP employees own them and dont want to shoot their goose that lays the golden eggs,
or they are afraid to **** off players who control so many accounts. But what they dont realize is t2 BPO players have been paying with PLEX since 2006, so they wont lose any actual revenue, it will just reduce the price of PLEX |
Abditus Cularius
Perkone Caldari State
256
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Please make sure to take an off-the-cuff joke trolling an entitled player as being the impending immediate removal of T2 BPOs. Please relay that opinion to all T2 BPO owners you know, loudly and repeatedly, until they firesell their prints at a fraction of the value. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
259
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
gas guzzler wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Gamer4liff wrote:Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs. A guy was bitching that his T2 BPO lost 20% of its value due to impending research changes and CCP Greyscale responded that it will eventually lose all its value. yeah when CCP turns out the lights and the server goes dead. There's 2 reasons they havent been fixed by now... either lots of CCP employees own them and dont want to shoot their goose that lays the golden eggs, or they are afraid to **** off players who control so many accounts. But what they dont realize is t2 BPO players have been paying with PLEX since 2006, so they wont lose any actual revenue, it will just reduce the price of PLEX
Which leads to less people considering plex a worthwhile "investment" which leads to... less people purchasing plex. Which is less revenue for CCP.
No idea how this works, do you? |
sodney
Firefly inovations.
348
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Posted - 2014.05.04 06:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:
A guy was bitching that his T2 BPO lost 20% of its value due to impending research changes and CCP Greyscale responded that it will eventually lose all its value.
Grrr this Greyscale again, first Doomsday and now T2 BPO's (and prolly all the other changes I didnt like in the past). I guess my next long time goal should be owning 10.000 Plexes so he can make Eve to a F2P game |
ST0NER SMURF
Vrix Nation Jazz Club
228
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Posted - 2014.05.04 10:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
they earn more mony from ppl using plex to play then ppl using a sub to play.. do the math.. this is s&i afteral ;o ______________________________________________________________________-á
GÖ½ When your pod gets blown to bits GÖ¬GÖ½ And you lose your implant fits GÖ¬\Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/ |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3165
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Posted - 2014.05.04 15:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
ST0NER SMURF wrote:they earn more mony from ppl using plex to play then ppl using a sub to play.. do the math.. this is s&i afteral ;o
It's a little more complicated than that.
The demand side of the plex market isn't as simple as some of the others. There are plenty of people out there who would like to use plex, but can't currently afford to. Either for their main, or possibly for a new character. (Or an old one they let lapse, when the plex price went above a certain value.)
It's a combination of a luxury good, and an investment item.
If people left, stopping plexing an account, the demand would, temporarily, fall. This can lead to a dip in PLEX price, where different people can then start affording to plex their other accounts, using the plex.
Net effect to CCP at this point is nothing.
It's not that simple, but it's a back of a napkin sketch. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
gas guzzler
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
1
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:gas guzzler wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Gamer4liff wrote:Scratchy Nutz wrote:Seems after today's industry QA, T2 BPOs are gonna be more collectors items and wont bring a significant advantage to invention anymore. Can you expand on this? I wasn't awake yet, but I heard that this was said in regards to some complaining guy, and it wasn't a solid thing. It was also said in one of the devblog comment threads that they have no plans on T2 BPOs. A guy was bitching that his T2 BPO lost 20% of its value due to impending research changes and CCP Greyscale responded that it will eventually lose all its value. yeah when CCP turns out the lights and the server goes dead. There's 2 reasons they havent been fixed by now... either lots of CCP employees own them and dont want to shoot their goose that lays the golden eggs, or they are afraid to **** off players who control so many accounts. But what they dont realize is t2 BPO players have been paying with PLEX since 2006, so they wont lose any actual revenue, it will just reduce the price of PLEX Which leads to less people considering plex a worthwhile "investment" which leads to... less people purchasing plex. Which is less revenue for CCP. No idea how this works, do you?
lol t2 bpo holder spotted, here to defend his ME and PE advantage over us inventing plebs.
amazingly this one doesnt know that PLEX purchases and monthly subscription purchases are basically interchangeable most of the time, and totally interchangeable when PLEX goes on sale, which is the only time people with brains buy them.
let me spell this out for you... 1 less PLEX used = 1 more monthly subscription purchased. understand?
Assuming no spoiled t2 bpo holders like yourself quit, the removal of t2 bpos from the game will be REVENUE NEUTRAL
kthnxbye
EDIT: also what Steve Ronuken said when they are not on sale :D |
Geezelbub
Barely Illegal
13
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Posted - 2014.05.05 01:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
They've disappeared months of skill training in astrometrics so why not T2 BPO's?
Plex sellers are a trip. I needed a few and got them for about 10% below Jita buy order price so was happy.
The last one I bought the guy turned around and bought an exhumer from me for 15% above Jita sell order and some overpriced miner mods and crystals too.
Plexs are extremely inflationary ingame IMO. T2 BPO's should NEVER have happened, but that's 20/20 hindsight. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
83
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Posted - 2014.05.05 02:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
gas guzzler wrote: lol t2 bpo holder spotted, here to defend his ME and PE advantage over us inventing plebs.
amazingly this one doesnt know that PLEX purchases and monthly subscription purchases are basically interchangeable most of the time, and totally interchangeable when PLEX goes on sale, which is the only time people with brains buy them.
let me spell this out for you... 1 less PLEX used = 1 more monthly subscription purchased. understand?
Assuming no spoiled t2 bpo holders like yourself quit, the removal of t2 bpos from the game will be REVENUE NEUTRAL
kthnxbye
EDIT: also what Steve Ronuken said when they are not on sale :D
There are valid reasons to want an end to T2 BPOs.
That is not one of them. |
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