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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
We have Stealth Bombers, which are frigates that fire extremely oversize weapons. They also have bombs which do great damage to subcaps.
Now let's make a Covert OPs Cruiser or BC that's only effective against Supercaps: The Submarine Class.
They fit Citadel CRUISE Launchers, and each one has a stacking debuff that it's missiles reduces the resistances of the target upon impact. Make it so no ship could be reduced below 50% of the their original resistances. Amarr submarines would reduce EM resistance per salvo, Caldari would reduce Kinetic, Gallente reduces thermal resist, Mimatar explosive, etc.
They would also come with a "Nuke." It would be too large to carry in cargo and only one could be pre-fitted to the launcher. It would be as powerful as a Doomsday and each "nuke" would have a racial effect. Amarr nukes would drain cap, Caldari nukes would jam target (regardless of ewar immunity), Gallente nukes would drop scan res and targeting range by 75% for 1 minute, Minimatar would reduce tracking and optimal range for 1 minute.
These ships must be pretty thin, a cruiser sized tank and sig radius.
Allow them to target hostiles while cloaked. Unlike other covert ops, these ships cannot recloak for at least 3 minutes after they break cloak if they fit a Nuke Launcher (this would give them the option to not fit Nuke Launchers in order to recloak as soon as other covert ops).
In order to make the Sig radius difference between Caps and Supercaps actually mean something, let the the damage of the nuke scale with Sig Radius, such that Titans receive 100% damage and Carriers/Dreads take about 25%ish damage. Subcaps would take negligible damage. |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think wrong forum, but still to give such power to a single cruiser it will abused and they will have only those to reinforce after capitals enter the battle.
No. |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:I think wrong forum, but still to give such power to a single cruiser it will abused and they will have only those to reinforce after capitals enter the battle.
No.
How can you abuse it? It's easily killed by subcaps. God forbid you need more than 20 subcaps (19 of which are Hictors, a cruiser class that's also for fighting supercaps) in your Supercap fleet to assist you. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
422
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Posted - 2014.04.18 00:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just be aware such offensive ability will pretty much make certain it is a paper tank. Which is not a bad thing.
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Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 00:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Just be aware such offensive ability will pretty much make certain it is a paper tank. Which is not a bad thing.
I was thinking making it a Destroyer hull instead. Thin as a dictor, but even slower. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
423
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Posted - 2014.04.18 00:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, to be honest, I think a T2 BC hull would be best, T2 Tornado/Oracle/Naga/Talos. They already are glass cannons with upsize weapons. It isn't a stretch to make their T2 variants into these Strategic Bombers.
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Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 00:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Well, to be honest, I think a T2 BC hull would be best, T2 Tornado/Oracle/Naga/Talos. They already are glass cannons with upsize weapons. It isn't a stretch to make their T2 variants into these Strategic Bombers.
The problem is that I don't want them to be "tankable" such that they could be used against subcaps, BB's and Marauders in particular.
Destroyers don't have a covert role yet. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
774
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maybe the nuke could have 90% chance of overheating. Random explosions that annihilate your whole friendly fleet. Jumping gates could trigger a reactor failure, or time lapse could trigger it. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
218
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP
Perhaps 1/4 of a doomsday. Perhaps another class of subcaps that are designed for screening the nukes. Perhaps making the fleet battles revolve for more around strategy than the blob, or at the very least, the blob + strategy. |
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Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
218
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP That would be working as intended.
Do you even think about what this does to doctrinal warfare before you start opening your mouth? |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP That would be working as intended. Do you even think about what this does to doctrinal warfare before you start opening your mouth?
Nice partial quote. I said give it a 2 minute launch time upon activation that prevents the ship from warping off field and slows it's speed by 50%. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
423
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Well, to be honest, I think a T2 BC hull would be best, T2 Tornado/Oracle/Naga/Talos. They already are glass cannons with upsize weapons. It isn't a stretch to make their T2 variants into these Strategic Bombers. The problem is that I don't want them to be "tankable" such that they could be used against subcaps, BB's and Marauders in particular. Destroyers don't have a covert role yet.
Using the suggested hulls doesn't make them unreasonably tankable. Besides, Citadel Cruise are as big as Battleships... lol
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
774
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
You don't think a frigate hull that can kill supers is out of line in any way?
Where the 'risk vs reward' factor? Where's any semblance of balance?
The whole proliferation of frigates online is taking eve backwards. There's no incentive to really move up the ladder of ship evolution. Frigates can already kill Battle ships, and that in itself is OP. If you want to fight supers, man up and fly an equivalent fleet. Or stay in frigate gangs and camp plex gates or something...
My opinion bluntly: Thoughtless Selfish Cheap Cheesy Stupid F**king Idea. |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 04:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:You don't think a frigate hull that can kill supers is out of line in any way?
Where the 'risk vs reward' factor? Where's any semblance of balance?
The whole proliferation of frigates online is taking eve backwards. There's no incentive to really move up the ladder of ship evolution. Frigates can already kill Battle ships, and that in itself is OP. If you want to fight supers, man up and fly an equivalent fleet. Or stay in frigate gangs and camp plex gates or something...
My opinion bluntly: Thoughtless Selfish Cheap Cheesy Stupid F**king Idea.
No. Especially if it's very easy to kill with a subcap fleet.
Cost should not be a balancing factor. |
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.04.18 04:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
No. I don't like caps, but that's a bad idea.
Oh, and in your 10 caps on field idea... If these existed, those caps would die in 2 minutes whenever they hit the field. If you have a destroyer sized ship that can kill a dread, who cares if you lose 100 of them, you'd still come out ahead. No one would use caps.
Bad idea. Get rid of the doomsday, a BC sized ship specialized to attack caps, that might work. This dessy doomship... LOL |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 04:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:No. I don't like caps, but that's a bad idea.
Oh, and in your 10 caps on field idea... If these existed, those caps would die in 2 minutes whenever they hit the field. If you have a destroyer sized ship that can kill a dread, who cares if you lose 100 of them, you'd still come out ahead. No one would use caps.
Bad idea. Get rid of the doomsday, a BC sized ship specialized to attack caps, that might work. This dessy doomship... LOL
Well I originally did suggested cruiser hull, but someone else insinuated it should be smaller. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
774
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Posted - 2014.04.18 05:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
I think nothing strikes more fear in you than the loss of the status quo where the "riff-raff" of EvE (most of the players) cannot threaten you. Rest assured that CPP will indeed obliterate the status quo, even if (and most likely) it has nothing in common with this idea.
First and foremost: My apologies if my post comes off as a personal attack. It is not. I can see how it could be taken personally. I generally post on forums to be helpful, or to give opinions with reasoning or experience to back them. My post is my opinion, but I hope it conveys how strongly I feel about EVE's current state.
To address your quote above: Most Super pilots have several years of training, and several years of ISK accumulation in their ships. Or they have several hundreds of RL dollars invested. In any case, that ship represents a value in RL dollars and time spent. Most of them have at least 2 accounts, that they pay for every month. I've had a couple supers, but personally I don't love them. Small corps can't effectively use them, and they are like being in a prison with one character.
It just wouldn't be reasonable to be able to kill those ships with a fleet of 3 month old alt/pilots. The 'status quo' you speak of. Well, those pilots have earned the right to have a little status quo going for them. The "fear" I have isn't about losing a ship....It's about ruining the game for those long time, well invested players.
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
173
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Posted - 2014.04.18 07:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP What if the enemy do the same? If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough. |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.04.18 08:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP What if the enemy do the same?
He also seems to forget that a a near stationary and paper-thin ship that can't warp for 2 minutes when launching the nuke would be extremely vulnerable to sniping fleets. A couple of squads of 425mm Nagas would blap them from 200+km.
But god forbid supercap pilots had to rely on others in subcaps instead of 19 other accounts using ISB boxer. |
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Golem Master
ROMANIA Renegades. ROMANIAN-LEGION
3
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Posted - 2014.04.18 08:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Give the ability to reduce rezistents per shoot to titans. This will only effective against capitals size
Give the ability to increase rezistents to super carriers lets say for 1 min with a CD of 10 min
Give the ability to rep 100% more for 1 min to carriers with a 30min CD.
Give the ability to increase 50% dmg for 1 min with CD of 30 min to dreads.
Reduce 50% dmg to cruiser,frigates,destr hulls against capital size.
Reduce 30% dmg to t1 bs against capitals size.
Increase 20% dmg to black ops against cap size.
Increase 20% dmg to marauders against cap size.
T3 ships let them the same .
This will reduce ganks in hi sec to frighters
Cap fleets will figth another cap fleet
Will be hard to gank carriers without cap suport
BO&Marauders will be more on batllefield
Supercaps will be a lot more useful on batlle field.
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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3983
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Posted - 2014.04.18 10:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm not for this idea but a question to the 'risk-reward' people: what are your thoughts on a few catalysts being able to destroy a hulk? A genuine question. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
607
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Posted - 2014.04.18 15:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
OP:
No.
/thread
Jake Warbird wrote:I'm not for this idea but a question to the 'risk-reward' people: what are your thoughts on a few catalysts being able to destroy a hulk? A genuine question.
There's ways to tank a Barge so ganking them becomes unprofitable. Hulk should only be used in absolute safety (which isn't high sec). |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
173
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Posted - 2014.04.18 22:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:OP: No. /thread Jake Warbird wrote:I'm not for this idea but a question to the 'risk-reward' people: what are your thoughts on a few catalysts being able to destroy a hulk? A genuine question. There's ways to tank a Barge so ganking them becomes unprofitable. Hulk should only be used in absolute safety (which isn't high sec). Ganking a Hulk has never been profitable, it's simply about depriving the other guy of cash. If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough. |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
158
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Posted - 2014.04.18 23:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Giving dread class guns/missiles to subcap hull like BC or BS seems fine. Other stuff in this thread is total nonsense. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3992
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Posted - 2014.04.19 06:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fair enough. |
Golem Master
ROMANIA Renegades. ROMANIAN-LEGION
3
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Posted - 2014.04.19 10:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:Giving dread class guns/missiles to subcap hull like BC or BS seems fine. Other stuff in this thread is total nonsense.
How in the world will you give gun/missle dred clas to a BC or BS ?
Then we also should give fighters/bomber to BC BS -+?
And then ccp will need to remove titans, carieres, supercariers bcoz they wont be usefull anymore .
dumm ideea |
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
36
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Posted - 2014.04.19 10:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Golem Master wrote:Oska Rus wrote:Giving dread class guns/missiles to subcap hull like BC or BS seems fine. Other stuff in this thread is total nonsense. How in the world will you give gun/missle dred clas to a BC or BS ? Then we also should give fighters/bomber to BC BS -+? And then ccp will need to remove titans, carieres, supercariers bcoz they wont be usefull anymore . dumm ideea
There is precedent. SB's (frigates) carry BS weapons. It's not that useful, unless you are shooting at a huge target. The normal trade off is to make whatever you do that to fragile. REALLY fragile. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
218
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Posted - 2014.04.19 14:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
Nice partial quote. I said give it a 2 minute launch time upon activation that prevents the ship from warping off field and slows it's speed by 50%.
If you use your brain and a little logic and with some internal and public testing, many artificial limitations could be put in place to easily curtail what you just mentioned.
http://i.imgur.com/8MgUE4I.png
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap
Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.
Great ******* idea OP What if the enemy do the same? He also seems to forget that a a near stationary and paper-thin ship that can't warp for 2 minutes when launching the nuke would be extremely vulnerable to sniping fleets. A couple of squads of 425mm Nagas would blap them from 200+km. But god forbid supercap pilots had to rely on others in subcaps instead of 19 other accounts using ISB boxer.
Enemy drops supercaps > Suicide dictors for 2m, warp in enemy fleet * 15 number of subcap doomsday
The enemy supercap fleet instantly pops, thus making any deployment of supers instantly unviable. But hey, let's say the enemy "sniper" fleet is amazingly talented and employ vodoo magic - Let's say I lose 1500 BC hulls (the enemy has 100 subcaps). That's approximately 120b isk. Of course with 1500 pilots appearing on grid I had to kill something, so let's say I alpha'd a single titan off the field...
also worth 120b isk, but without the significant insurance payout
You might as well have just titled this thread "remove capital ships". A blap dread costs ~2.5b to field, and can MAYBE siege its way into doing a doomsday's worth of damage before it, individually, dies. You want to introduce a BATTLECRUISER HULL that is significantly better than a DREAD in every single way |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1021
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Posted - 2014.04.21 08:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Why not just add resist bombs to the game? Make them very expensive. Or perhaps a skill point loss associated with launching them! Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
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