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Cody Bias
Mustang Capital
0
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Posted - 2014.04.18 01:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
This character is a relatively new alt that I use as a dedicated station trader. All trading related skills are maxed to V.
I'm looking for advice on how to increase my isk per day, because I seem to have reached an interesting plateau:
Over the past two weeks or so I've been station trading in Jita. I started with about 1.8B and I'm up to about 3.6B. I trade all forms of consumer products and often max out my 305 max active orders.
My investment strategy consists of looking for items with a minimum real profit margin of 6% (i.e. a 6% return AFTER paying taxes and broker fees) although I'd say if I were to average my return on each product it is closer to 12% (since I have many items with much higher margins).
Furthermore, I use Elinor to look at the average daily volume for each item (both sell and buy orders) and typically only go for about 10-20% of total daily available transactions of either the sell or buy orders (whichever is less). In other words, I try to employ the capital in such a way so to avoid it getting tied up for an excessive amount of time.
Here's the problem I've encountered:
My return is very consistently 100mil per day (+-about 20%). This 100 million isk figure seems to be entirely independent of how often I update my orders (either once per day or several times per day) or the total capital I employ (since I've doubled my isk since a few weeks ago and I continually reinvest the extra isk into the market).
For whatever reason, it seems like 100 million isk per day is some form of market constant that I can't seem to push through.
Looking for advice.
Thanks.
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Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
27
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have you considered expanding your activities to other trade hubs?
I have read accounts of traders making significant gains by shipping in and out of other hubs, as well as acquiring insights into the market as a whole such that they've increased their returns in their main hub of operations as well.
Good luck! Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. --Azual Skoll |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
24
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Have you tried trading larger priced items, such as ships and T2 modules? Once I had gained enough capital to escape the high order counts of high volume, low priced items, I started investing in items that had larger prices and noticed a huge surge in my profits.
As a trader, I think it's important to evolve your portfolio and trading habits to reflect your NAV. If you do this, your profits will evolve also. 2.5% Interest Rate on all investments. More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322582&find=unread |
Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
29
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Posted - 2014.04.18 06:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Should you choose to expand to other hubs, you may wish to review the early blog posts found at marketforisk.com. Some good stuff there. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. --Azual Skoll |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
210
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Posted - 2014.04.18 07:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Are you trading any of the same items as when you had started with 1.8b? Perhaps you could do an analysis of items you are trading, the profit they make and time spent managing each of them, then drop those not worth your time. Even if you can make 1000% profit on a handful of trit, it's still not a lot of total ISK.
Far Wanderer wrote:Have you considered expanding your activities to other trade hubs?
I have read accounts of traders making significant gains by shipping in and out of other hubs, as well as acquiring insights into the market as a whole such that they've increased their returns in their main hub of operations as well.
Good luck!
Koniforous wrote:Have you tried trading larger priced items, such as ships and T2 modules? Once I had gained enough capital to escape the high order counts of high volume, low priced items, I started investing in items that had larger prices and noticed a huge surge in my profits.
As a trader, I think it's important to evolve your portfolio and trading habits to reflect your NAV. If you do this, your profits will evolve also.
You guys seem to be trying really hard to look like the same person lazily trying to play two characters.
.
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Wafflehead
Hurricane Research
90
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Posted - 2014.04.18 09:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
You need to find more profitable items and/or as Elizabeth Norn stated, drop the items that are taking too much time to produce said profit.
You should be looking at average time to buy and sell of the items as well. |
Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
30
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Posted - 2014.04.18 10:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
You guys seem to be trying really hard to look like the same person lazily trying to play two characters.
And you seem to be mimicking every troll that's ever graced the forums with her presence.
Branch out already.
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. --Azual Skoll |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
157
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Posted - 2014.04.18 13:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
When you have a method to gain 100M isk daily why not just duplicate it. Make another alt give him some start capital and trade another items in same hub or same items in another trade hub. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
25
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Posted - 2014.04.18 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Are you trading any of the same items as when you had started with 1.8b? Perhaps you could do an analysis of items you are trading, the profit they make and time spent managing each of them, then drop those not worth your time. Even if you can make 1000% profit on a handful of trit, it's still not a lot of total ISK.
Elizabeth said, in better words, what I had tried to convey. Ships may not make a greater profit percentage, but the amount of ISK their profit equates to can be far greater than high profit margin, cheaply traded items. 2.5% Interest Rate on all investments. More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322582&find=unread |
Bob ran
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2014.04.18 20:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Although my trading isnt station trading but regional trading that tends to be allot more passive. I found that after the 100m mark you get a lower proportional return for the isk you put in. So you need allot more isk to see a noticeable higher increase in profits over a single day
As others have said you try using the current items to trade between the different trade hubs |
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Abidal Trekt
State War Academy Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2014.04.18 22:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think Elizabeth and Koniforous' replies here are bang on. All items and all stations have a limited profit potential based on competition and trade volume. Just because an item has high ROI does not mean it will, in the long run, make you the best profit. That said, your rate of expansion seems healthy, and the time seems right to scale up.
As others suggested: trade in more items, or trade in more stations. Either way, you'll need another trading toon and another 300 orders to work with. Once you have an account with 3x trading characters, the value of your plex per trading character goes up! (I'm assuming here you intend to play for free with all your earnings) |
Cody Bias
Mustang Capital
0
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Posted - 2014.04.19 13:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Wafflehead wrote:You need to find more profitable items and/or as Elizabeth Norn stated, drop the items that are taking too much time to produce said profit.
You should be looking at average time to buy and sell of the items as well.
Is there any in-game mechanic to see how long an order has been in existence? Every time I modify an order it goes back to 90 days. Can I see when the order was originally posted? |
Abidal Trekt
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2014.04.19 13:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cody Bias wrote:Wafflehead wrote:You need to find more profitable items and/or as Elizabeth Norn stated, drop the items that are taking too much time to produce said profit.
You should be looking at average time to buy and sell of the items as well. Is there any in-game mechanic to see how long an order has been in existence? Every time I modify an order it goes back to 90 days. Can I see when the order was originally posted?
There is no in-game mechanic, but like all mechanics that will take your trading to the next level, it is out-of-game. |
Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.04.20 00:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
The ultimate end game here is trading every single item which has a sell and buy order listed in all four major trade hubs. In this sense you're covering the entire market when station trading.
With that in mind you have these options...
- Trade more items. Which means expand beyond 305 market order slots and utilise more characters on the one account or start new accounts - you're already making enough isk to PLEX a second account, so give it a shot;
- Expand into one of the other three market hubs and don't focus just on Jita;
- Start Inter-Hub trading. It's not really that much different from station trading, and you can use hauling corps to haul your stuff if need be.
www.YouTube.com/evemogul -ástarring... Me!
www.evemogul.info -á- -áLearn to trade. -áStart winning Eve.
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Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
185
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Posted - 2014.04.22 16:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Another way of looking at things:
Early on in trading margins are quite important, but later on you will find that the volume of ISK traded for items becomes more relevant as the pile of isk you have to play with grows and grows.
Why? Because you need to find a way to put that isk to work is why - hence the reason why high volume isk becomes relevant.
So lets say you have a 12% margin on an item and sell 100 million worth of the stuff over a week - you've made 12 million.
Lets say I have a 5% margin on an item, but in that week I sell 400 million worth of the stuff... yeah I've made 20 million.
That's how it plays out as your pile of iskies grows.
Have fun. |
Maru Niffilen
United Trading Organisation
2
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Posted - 2014.04.23 11:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
That's why I love trading in EVE. There are so many possibilities and ways which also change from time to time depending on how much money you have on your wallet. Until I had 2B I was station trading with playing the 0.1 ISK game to flip my stuff faster. Now I stock multiple hubs with 10+ B and there's still money left on my wallet which makes me think of new ways of trading. But it's also a lot of work to optimize the current trading style for a better effort/profit ratio.
Keep exploring, open your eyes (blogs, forum), try new items and so on, you will definitely leave this 100mil/day behind you. |
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