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Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Brothers of Tangra
240
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
I want to gauge people's reaction to the provist manhunt live event now that its over.
While I only participated on one of the fights it seemed a much better than the disaster that was Operation Spectre mainly because most of it was held in high sec and as such let small groups and solo players have a chance, even if the ships died so quickly anyone in a slow ship never had a chance of even seeing the target. That being said the events held in low sec once again show how hard it is for small group to fight against the alliances.
Overall I'd say a much better effort |
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
22
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Posted - 2014.04.20 13:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Low sec spawns were system-wide fights with gate camps, station camps, fights to hold the grid with the carriers and potential for fights to happends in the neighbouring systems.
Highsec spawns were punching balls/DPS race where all you did was locking a target and shooting it until it died (quickly), while taking half a dozen jumps under heavy TiDi were all you had to do was looking at your screen.
Quote:That being said the events held in low sec once again show how hard it is for small group to fight against the alliances. Maybe if these small groups actually tried to have the same degree of organization, involvment and preparation as these "large" groups, they would stand a better chance. And really, 40 PL in navy apocs is not that large of a fleet, and would not have dominated the fight if the 800 other people in local were risking something bigger than a destroyer.
But I guess the problem is that low sec events were actual fights instead of simply bashing a helpless carrier who dont agress you with more than 2 dragonfly at once. |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Brothers of Tangra
240
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Posted - 2014.04.20 14:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote:Quote:That being said the events held in low sec once again show how hard it is for small group to fight against the alliances. Maybe if these small groups actually tried to have the same degree of organization, involvment and preparation as these "large" groups, they would stand a better chance. And really, 40 PL in navy apocs is not that large of a fleet, and would not have dominated the fight if the 800 other people in local were risking something bigger than a destroyer.
You did see the local during operation spectre right? The actor instructions where scrolled off the screen in an instant by "x armour" or "x shield" you can't co-ordinate under those conditions. And are you really expecting a group of random players within 5 minutes to have organised into full combat squads with voice coms and a logi support wing?
And the reason everyone even for the small ships was because if you took a large (slow) ship in the high sec events its all over by the time you're there |
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
22
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Posted - 2014.04.20 15:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Quote:That being said the events held in low sec once again show how hard it is for small group to fight against the alliances. Maybe if these small groups actually tried to have the same degree of organization, involvment and preparation as these "large" groups, they would stand a better chance. And really, 40 PL in navy apocs is not that large of a fleet, and would not have dominated the fight if the 800 other people in local were risking something bigger than a destroyer. You did see the local during operation spectre right? The actor instructions where scrolled off the screen in an instant by "x armour" or "x shield" you can't co-ordinate under those conditions. And are you really expecting a group of random players within 5 minutes to have organised into full combat squads with voice coms and a logi support wing? And the reason everyone even for the small ships was because if you took a large (slow) ship in the high sec events its all over by the time you're there I went to that last event in a machariel (modified for the occasion with 3 warp speed rigs and 2 nanofibers) , by the time I came in, no carrier was below 80% shield. You are simply making excuses for people to be dumb, lazy, antisocial and entilted. |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Brothers of Tangra
240
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Posted - 2014.04.20 16:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Quote:That being said the events held in low sec once again show how hard it is for small group to fight against the alliances. Maybe if these small groups actually tried to have the same degree of organization, involvment and preparation as these "large" groups, they would stand a better chance. And really, 40 PL in navy apocs is not that large of a fleet, and would not have dominated the fight if the 800 other people in local were risking something bigger than a destroyer. You did see the local during operation spectre right? The actor instructions where scrolled off the screen in an instant by "x armour" or "x shield" you can't co-ordinate under those conditions. And are you really expecting a group of random players within 5 minutes to have organised into full combat squads with voice coms and a logi support wing? And the reason everyone even for the small ships was because if you took a large (slow) ship in the high sec events its all over by the time you're there I went to that last event in a machariel (modified for the occasion with 3 warp speed rigs and 2 nanofibers) , by the time I came in, no carrier was below 80% shield. You are simply making excuses for people to be dumb, lazy, antisocial and entilted.
I was taking my expectations from the Thursday event where my colleague in Hyperion wasn't even on grid when the last dread died. From what I can tell the final fight was actually a good long affair because they actually supported themselves with logi. Also most people consider a 500m ship a rather large investment to just be thrown away in combat |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
541
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Posted - 2014.04.20 21:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
To the OP. Event was good. Would have been great if the Provists were actually trying to achieve some goal rather than suicide capitalships for fun and profit. There was a time when live events like this drove some story and the event actors actually roleplayed with everyone in the IGS forums! Those were the best events.
To the other posters telling people to bring bigger ships: no. Not everyone wants to fly in a fleet of strangers and prefer solo. Small stuff is better in that situation. But hey, if you want to buy me a machariel that will likely die to TiDi you're more than welcome to do so, but considering I was one of the first few people to arrive at the last three events I'm quite satisfied. I just wish I had specialized more for scan resolution for those damn pods... |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Brothers of Tangra
240
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Posted - 2014.04.20 21:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:To the OP. Event was good. Would have been great if the Provists were actually trying to achieve some goal rather than suicide capitalships for fun and profit. There was a time when live events like this drove some story and the event actors actually roleplayed with everyone in the IGS forums! Those were the best events.
I do wonder if it's setting up some kind of storyline for the upcoming update. Most likely is a caldari civil war as caldari prime suceeds from the state along with other planets. The provists were fighting close to the gallente border. But yes it does seem the world has taken backseat to the sandbox. I'm all for letting people make the story but every sandbox needs a few buckets |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
621
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Posted - 2014.04.21 20:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
I did enjoy this event, offered something for everyone, in all timezones.
Minor complaint from me is the lack of storydrive. Most actors didn't explain their purpose to be there, save 'to die for the True Caldari Way as martyrs'
However, all in all, a very enjoyable event, one that helped me greatly in writing reports! Went all out for it!
Did like the fact it wasn't something totally out the blue, but related to older newsreports. The Provists were all member of the 37th squadron, and were part of the trial where they got dishonourably discharged, a severe punishment in the State. So it's not unthinkable they offered their knowledge of Caldari Navy assets to the Dragonaurs in exchange for revenge. The Provist Manhunt Summary-á -á-áDragonaur-ácapital fleet-ádefeated at Usi-á |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1453
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Posted - 2014.04.21 21:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote:Low sec spawns were system-wide fights with gate camps, station camps, fights to hold the grid with the carriers and potential for fights to happends in the neighbouring systems. in other words: just 1234567890th 0.0 sec battle.
good if you like it. me - don't.
to the OP: personally i didn't participate. Just had no interest. Killing carriers who are not trying to survive? Fighting with blobbers and campers? Bring BS into low-sec (LoL) or into Caldari space (for Gallente Militia member)? Nope. Thanks. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
547
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Posted - 2014.04.21 21:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Low sec spawns were system-wide fights with gate camps, station camps, fights to hold the grid with the carriers and potential for fights to happends in the neighbouring systems. in other words: just 1234567890th 0.0 sec battle. good if you like it. me - don't.
Which is why you're in a NPC FW corp. Cool story bro. |
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1453
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Posted - 2014.04.21 21:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:March rabbit wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Low sec spawns were system-wide fights with gate camps, station camps, fights to hold the grid with the carriers and potential for fights to happends in the neighbouring systems. in other words: just 1234567890th 0.0 sec battle. good if you like it. me - don't. Which is why you're in a NPC FW corp. Cool story bro. quick-witted! The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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CCP Falcon
6547
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Posted - 2014.04.21 23:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Would have been great if the Provists were actually trying to achieve some goal rather than suicide capitalships for fun and profit.
Maybe they were, and just didn't want to trust capsuleers with that information? Or maybe they weren't.
Not everything has to be spelled out in black and white.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
553
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Posted - 2014.04.21 23:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hai Verone!
Certainly there is the possibility that some hidden agenda was being carried out but the evidence isn't there. The dialogue and locations of fighting had little significance/meaning from anyone not CCP. Im not hating you guys, I appreciate the event and thought it was pretty well done. The only issue I had is the lack of any RP from the actors like we've had in the past. The events leading up to the Incursions were a great example of how a little carrot dangled infront of RPers noses goes a long way to add to an event.
I agree not everything should be black and white but perhaps you understand a little more what I'm talking about. It's hard for RPers to even speculate beyond the Provists seeking martyrdom.
Also, if they don't trust capsuleers how do they manage to fly together as capsuleers?
Feeeeeeed usssss!
Cheers. Miss you V <3 |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1260
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Posted - 2014.04.21 23:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
Maybe they were, and just didn't want to trust capsuleers with that information? Or maybe they weren't.
Not everything has to be spelled out in black and white.
It's not about it being spelt out. It's about there being visual clues to something deeper so that people have an avenue to start trying to dig deeper. Right now there is no way to dig deeper without wild ass guessing as to what they were doing, since they were at inconsistent locations in systems with no pattern to the system locations anyone could derive either. Also be great if people trying to dig deeper got feedback, even if it was 'You find nothing' so they at least know someone bothered to read their mail.
On the event, it was better run. The Null Blocs are always going to dominate these things though if they care to be there. Talking about 'entitlement' or any other rubbish is silly. Null Blocs are already set up for years for fleet combat. High Sec isn't. So alternative ways to interact with the event that can be accomplished by a smaller fleet under fire is also desirable. i.e. obviously a smaller fleet can't kill carriers, but there could be much smaller objectives either on grid, or even off grid providing there is some kind of reasonable clue, for those smaller fleets to attempt to get done before they get shot out of the sky. The Events don't have to just be replicating the current state of Sov warfare where there is only one objective and biggest fleet wins pretty much.
However the reward was simply inappropriate. They were offering nearly ten times the value of the ships in reward. Over 500 Billion. And when it was correctly predicted beforehand by the playerbase that PL would walk away with most of the low sec plex, CCP must have known that one of the big null blocs at least would do that. For a 500 Bil reward, using the standard bounty system there should have been at least 5 Trillion in ship value that players had to fight their way through to destroy. Since about 10% of actual ship value ends up getting paid out most of the time. A much better reward would have been skinned ships using the new Aur store ships, or Aurum, or specific Caldari clothing. Cool cosmetic rewards, maybe even with isk value (Though not 500 billion) of it's self. But not a powerful game item like plex. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1347
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Posted - 2014.04.22 01:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
the one thing that was really sad about the event was that those who were saved by PL showed up to the next event only to be killed there.
letting them live and continue the story from there would have been a much better solution GRRR Goons |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6197
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Posted - 2014.04.22 01:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
o/
Second Eran on the please-more-arpee-please angle. That said, definitely liked the varied timezones and the warning. As a US TZ player, it's really hard to have a presence. :x Got in a little bit of Ishu-v-Provist banter, which was fun, even if I didn't have much chance to pursue before everything hit the fan. ;) Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
97
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Posted - 2014.04.22 05:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
In hs i think a 15 man npc gang would have been better,
or if you shoot the npc actor you get a timer that allows all the npc actors to engage you. Maybe make it another colour/state ? that way at least the rest of the hs actors can engage alot more things.
haven't attempted a ls live events yet.
other than that, shooting caps is always fun.
Rewards wise you could have just given 1plex each to 10 random people on the kill mails, and gotten a similar participation level. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1262
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Posted - 2014.04.22 09:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
The point of live events is that the actors are under exactly the same rules as the players are. Sometimes the actors will be suspect. Sometimes the players will be the ones going suspect instead. Sometimes everyone will go suspect. But there are no 'special' Live Event Actor rules.
If fleet vs fleet without wardecs is an issue in highsec, then maybe we need to lobby for the ability to create fleet wide limited engagements, (That would then also mean that Logi could rep their own fleet without going suspect since everyone had the same limited engagement tags). But that's a bit more of a complex mechanic and may start to confuse people again, as well as opening up additional gank opportunities. May not be a bad thing overall, but you would also need to introduce some mechanic (Intel Tab, I'm looking at you) to determine if your target was in a fleet, and who else was in the same fleet, so that you could engage a suspect safely rather than engage a suspect and discover 30 other ships on the undock were also in fleet with them. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5198
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Posted - 2014.04.22 13:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Hai Verone!
Certainly there is the possibility that some hidden agenda was being carried out but the evidence isn't there.
Take the evidence you have, figure out the story....
The Provists stole billions in Capital Ship assets from the Caldari Navy. The CN provided epic tears and wasted billions more on bounties. The CN assets got blown up in the end.
Epic Troll on the part of the Provists, egg on the face of the Caldari Navy.
Op success.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
555
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Hai Verone!
Certainly there is the possibility that some hidden agenda was being carried out but the evidence isn't there. Take the evidence you have, figure out the story.... The Provists stole billions in Capital Ship assets from the Caldari Navy. The CN provided epic tears and wasted billions more on bounties. The CN assets got blown up in the end. Epic Troll on the part of the Provists, egg on the face of the Caldari Navy. Op success.
Um. No.
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CCP Falcon
6553
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Posted - 2014.04.23 12:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Also, if they don't trust capsuleers how do they manage to fly together as capsuleers?
There's a difference between Navy / former Navy Capsuleers, and us independent scumbags who'll do anything to earn a few space dollars.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2689
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Posted - 2014.04.23 12:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Also, if they don't trust capsuleers how do they manage to fly together as capsuleers? There's a difference between Navy / former Navy Capsuleers, and us independent scumbags who'll do anything to earn a few space dollars.
A few?
I don't get out of bed for less than fifty million ISK and I'm only space middle class, not rich. Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
623
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Posted - 2014.04.23 18:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Also, if they don't trust capsuleers how do they manage to fly together as capsuleers? There's a difference between Navy / former Navy Capsuleers, and us independent scumbags who'll do anything to earn a few space dollars.
Well, this event was about a bit more then a few space-dollars. Wouldn't have been surprised if NPC pirates joined the fight. Fun note, in two lowsec events, NPC pirates were present! Were the classic rats, but it did add a lil flavour to it. Due to the prize being handed out, I knew this would be big, so dedicated a lot of time on doing reports on these events. From the feedback I received, people really appreciated it!
For people interested on these reports I did, I made a summary about it: The Provist Manhunt Summary In the summary, you'll get easy & handy links to every manhunt report & the reports include links to killboard sites & the official CCP publication on it.
All in all, this event was a good thing for many, as the varied timezones made sure everyone had a chance to participate. Also repeating myself here, but I also enjoy it wasn't totally out the blue, as it was related to the older reports of the 37th squadron trials. Over 11.000 refugees join the Arcology -á-áThe Provist Manhunt Summary-á |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6203
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Posted - 2014.04.24 18:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anyone have an ETA on the plex rewards? >.> Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Brothers of Tangra
242
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Posted - 2014.04.24 18:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Anyone have an ETA on the plex rewards? >.>
for some reason I think the 25th
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6203
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Posted - 2014.04.24 19:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
...oh right. Listed in the first post. Derp. Sorry. :x Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Ichinumi Tsukaya
PRAISE SATAN
19
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Posted - 2014.04.26 03:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Would have been great if the Provists were actually trying to achieve some goal rather than suicide capitalships for fun and profit. Maybe they were, and just didn't want to trust capsuleers with that information? Or maybe they weren't. Not everything has to be spelled out in black and white. this.
just because we were not able to interact with their objective does not mean one cannot be plausably written in; any number of plausable scenarios could have been occuring and us not knowing about it until later is a matter for CCP and their lore peoples.
although i do wonder what lore justification can be used for why the provists were using T2 modules on the highjacked capitals. were the capitals not fitted when highjacked and they needed to make a secret stop to jita for gear during DT? were the modules removed and put to some slush fund for a bigger operation by other templis dragonaurs? something else?
regardless, patience is a virtue, as always. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
566
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Posted - 2014.04.26 04:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kind sir, I disagree with your first comments, though I guess that isn't surprising.
To me, the whole point of Live Events is to interact with the objective and story development. Sure, the story may be mostly scripted and have a predefined outcome, which is both fine and completely understandable, but the Events are more about being a part of history and trying to alter the course. To this regard I would say that PL exemplified this in this most recent Event by defending the Provists.
Let's look at another previous Event, one which I feel was done very well: the lead up to the Incursion expansion were some of the best Live Events. A few examples of why include Mouse Nell's insertion of a probe into the wormholes that led CCP to reveal the picture of Sansha's fleet in Jove space, or the final fighting around Monalaz constellation where groups struggled to probe out the enemies and kill them before their objectives were met (we both succeeded and failed in different systems; overall I would say we failed and I partly blame my poor probing skills at the time).
Why are these examples important? Because player actions altered the story. Even if it is a small impact it makes a world of difference. I will probably never forget Mouse Nell because of that event and the background RP/planning/sabotage going on was pretty intense. The information provided by CCP was small but added a lot of depth to what was going on.
Sansha invaded the Kyonoke Pit, like the Provists did recently. It was clear at the time they were after the virus and not simply there to fight. Despite them never using the virus or the story developing much on that topic (a lot of side-arcs are forgotten by CCP, one I will never forget is during the beginning of FW when they instructed Amarr to attack Aset system in order to stop the Minmatar from acquiring very powerful and mysterious technology found in a mining colony. Minmatar defended it but story was dropped.), it added a sense of intrigue and mystery. It drove people beyond the desire to shoot something.
My problem is fighting in an asteroid belt or 100km off a station with no declared rhyme or reason from the Event Actors other than to be martyred ....from a RP standpoint it makes little sense. Why go through all that trouble with espionage and theft for such a moot reason? Sure CCP can invent some reasons later if they so desire but what's the point? The Event is over and any interactions players could have made would be lost.
To me these Events are about interaction with the story. This is the first time major rewards are handed out as a result of these Events so I can understand people disagreeing with me and saying it's about the money, but this has not been the norm of the past.
With that said, I do want to reiterate that I enjoyed the Manhunt a lot and am happy Falcon and the live event/lore team does these events. This post is just to further explain what makes the difference between a good Event and an outstanding/great Event. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1110
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: in other words: just 1234567890th 0.0 sec battle.
good if you like it. me - don't.
to the OP: personally i didn't participate. Just had no interest. Killing carriers who are not trying to survive? Fighting with blobbers and campers? Bring BS into low-sec (LoL) or into Caldari space (for Gallente Militia member)? Nope. Thanks.
Very odd thing for you to post.
You yourself have previously posted on these very forums that you are into camping to shoot haulers who can't shoot back. (In you comment about wcs in the W&T section)
Now you state you are too risk averse to take a ship that can fight back and defend itself into the warzone you chose to fight for due to fear of pixel loss.
Docked since 2009. |
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
52
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Posted - 2014.04.30 10:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
The overall vibe I'm getting is that:
A) The high reward potential gets other parties involved than usually would be, which could be used to generate gameplay.
B) While CCP feels that information about why the provists acted in the way they did shouldn't be spelled out, the players didn't have enough information to carry on with and generate gameplay after the events had concluded.
C) The events held outside of highsec seemed to have been more complex, while my experience tells me that highsec players who participated in the Incursion events enjoy such complexity just the same.
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