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Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
280
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Posted - 2014.04.22 22:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
T2 tank meta 4 weapons (with support skills at 3-4) will work perfectly.
Anything higher will be better.
do note you hsould read eve survival and pay attention to triggers, don't do stable cap builds they sucks and ofc use rat specific tank\damage. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5222
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Posted - 2014.04.22 23:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:1) You may find the missions are taking SOOO LONG that you're making less isk/hour than lvl 3's because you can't apply enough DPS or your tank is weak and you have to warp in and out.
That's the second biggest risk of moving to L4s for the first time. The first is that you don't know what you're doing, and quickly lose your mission running battleship.
Seraphi Nephalis, my advice is the following, constructed on the fly based on my own experience.
The moment you can get into a Raven hull and use cruise missiles and a MJD, you're ready for L4 missions. The moment you can get into a Dominix and field 5 sentry drones, fit drone damage amplifiers and omnidirectional tracking links, you're ready for L4 missions. I find the Dominix is "better" due to immediate application of DPS, while the Raven is "better" due to being able to provide more DPS (but each shot takes up to a minute to arrive).
The basic battle plan is: warp in, MJD away from the bulk of the NPCs, shoot them as they approach, closest first.
One huge advantage of the Dominix over the Raven is that when facing Serpentis or Guristas the drones will start shooting whatever is attacking you without you needing to be able to lock on to that target. You can drop a can, then MJD away from it a couple of times (that will take a few minutes) and drop another can, then warp back and forth between the two cans. This will remove all the NPCs target locks (it will also remove yours) while also giving you sniping roosts which allow you to dictate the range between you and the NPCs.
As far as training skills goes, focus on the ones that provide more DPS sooner. Eventually you'll be at the point that you can clear out all the NPCs in any one pocket before your MJD has cooled down. After that, getting more and more DPS is only going to shave a few seconds off mission completion times.
I have successfully run L4 missions in T1-fitted battleships. With the introduction of the MJD you barely even need to fit a tank except to deter gankers on the undock, or mission gankers, and even then your best tank is a cheap fit.
Don't fall into the trap of "bling fit" modules. Sure, that Pithi A-Type shield booster will run forever without running out of cap, but it's an open invitation to suicide gank your ship (we refer to these kinds of ships as "loot pi+¦atas").
Once you know how to blitz missions, you can make more ISK/hr with a T2 sentry dominix than the other guy flying an officer-fit Raven Navy Issue who doesn't know what he's doing. Even with a bling-fit Raven Navy Issue, you're going to spend proportionally more of your time in warp and jumping through stargates, so the extra few seconds you shave off each battleship kill don't really matter.
So I guess my opinion is that you should get into a Dominix ASAP, focus on Sentry Drone DPS, and learn how to blitz missions.
And keep in mind a corporation called "Pro Synergy": they'll clean up all those wrecks for you, and pay you 45% of their take. This is nice supplemental income for someone who is blitzing missions since any time you spend salvaging is wasted time.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2014.04.23 12:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Oh, I forgot ... one more reason to start running lvl 4's early is you will LOVE the difference when you finish training another T2 skill and can apply the extra DPS or tank. |
Jur Tissant
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.04.24 02:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Generally your ship is going to be in danger only when there are webs. As long as you have a good feel for what situations you can and can't handle, you should be able to jump out before they cut your hull. In case of webs (usually frigates), you'll need either fast guns or drones to take them out ASAP so you can warp.
Just remember to check guides online to see what you're up against. If a mission seems to iffy to you, decline it. You get one every four hours, and even without that it's better to lose a little standing than millions on a battleship. |
Bastion Arzi
Failed Diplomacy Failed-Diplomacy
100
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:So I guess my question is: what's the earliest you'd feel comfortable recommending a person start attempting LVL 4 security missions, given an intelligent and savvy player who's done their homework? I'm assuming at first it will be slow and probably not as good ISK/h as blitzing lvl 3s in my BC. But there will no doubt be a breaking point where it starts to become more profitable, which is what I'm looking for.
my amarr bs is still only level 3. and i can comfortably run most level 4 in a navy apoc (amarr space).
T2 weapons was the key and the apocs inherent bonus to range was the key. even with only level 3 amarr bs scorch gave me 60km range. that sort of range meant i didnt need t2 tank. because they couldnt hit me
Dont get me wrong having t2 tank does make things easier but its not essential IF you have t2 large pulse.
For those few missions that are too hot to handle alone there is a channel called helpmymission where u can go and ask for help. generally if people are nearby(ish) someone will help u.
If you fight guristas or those other missile loving scumbags a lot (cant remember name), having range wont help you becuase guristas are cheating bastards.
so i guess what im saying is that it depends on the bs ur going to use and whose space your going to be missioning in.
imo a range bonus = easy(er) mode for pve |
Vortexo VonBrenner
SolMod
1097
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Posted - 2014.04.24 19:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:- good stuff -
Like what you said, but I'd like to comment on one thing: Sentry drones, I've just preferred regular, buzz-around type drones. Not quite as effective and I must not have been using them correctly? Perhaps. Just seems to me the mobile drones are more flexible.
I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
Corthon
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.04.24 23:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
I would suggest you hop into a battleship, fit it to the best of your ability, and just go out their and try. If you lose your ship, you know you aren't ready and need to stick to 3's until you get a firmer grasp of the game/better skills, however if you complete the mission try a few more since they vary in difficulty. This game is all about having fun and taking risks, so do it! =D |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
538
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 01:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:- good stuff -
Like what you said, but I'd like to comment on one thing: Sentry drones, I've just preferred regular, buzz-around type drones. Not quite as effective and I must not have been using them correctly? Perhaps. Just seems to me the mobile drones are more flexible.
Sentry drones are essentially designed to work like turrets. Turrets have much higher overall damage output because they're restricted in how the damage can be fully applied.
So essentially a lot of people like sentry drones because, used properly, they de facto give you a faster clear time on mission rooms. Moving drones are more flexible for sure, but have lower absolute numbers.
Though, again, L4s aren't exactly end-game-equivalent content here. Step 1: Use what works and what doesn't bore you to tears, Step 2: there is no step 2, if what you're doing works then you're fine. |
erg cz
Sliperer
59
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Posted - 2014.04.25 07:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:
The standard mode of running LVL 4s seems to be something along these lines:
Warp in. Burn or MJD away from everything. Snipe tacking/elite frigs first, then clean up everything remaining while keeping targets as far away as your guns can effectively hit and do damage at.
My understanding is that battleships don't necessarily rely on speed tanking, so passive/active tank needs to be very good. That doesn't mean I should ignore transverse velocity entirely, but that I'll be better served by having a very strong tank without it.
The other thing I see a LOT of people using are rails. I personally lean towards cap-free damage, such as missile or projectiles.
You are right about how to do L4 misssions as a sniper. And players with low SP (like me) usually do this. If you prefer cap free damage you probably need meta4 version of this: [Armageddon, Armageddon: L4 Geddon] Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Sensor Booster II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66929-Armageddon-L4-Geddon.html#ixzz2zsfHsblJ
I prefer comfort of instant damage application, instant changing of optimal range (rats are comming closer, you know ;) ) and no additional costs of ammunition. Which brings me to beam lasers and sentry drones (lasers really sucks against angels, cause they do only two types of damage and here come drones as a weapon of choice). Plus I like big native buffer for situations, when NPC shoots missiles from 120+ km with high DPS. So I went for this: [Armageddon Navy Issue, Tachyon L4 mission boat] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Large Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Large Micro Jump Drive Cap Recharger II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed or optimal range Script
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
sentry drones x5 medium drones x5 light drones x 5
Always check eve survive for find out, what kind of drones to take with. I very often stay with full armor, tanking only with shields and range, so I use damage control instead of 2 mission specific hardeners. In some missions I have to switch membrane and damage control to two mission specific armor hardeners, but it was 2 or 3 times in the whole history of me learning L4 missions. And I am still learning how to do L4 missions, since I started not long ago and have had a big break...
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Jockari Morden
Lords Of Anarchy
0
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Posted - 2014.04.25 08:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Before this summer, don't try L4 without T2 sentries because it takes forever to complete the mission, not mentionning the travel time in a BS.
I did a dozen L4 with T1 sentries (on this char when it was at ~8M sp) while finishing training for T2 and basically lost my time compared to storming L3 in my Ishtar (T1 sentries are fine for L3)
Now with T2 sentries and better drone skills doing L4 starts to be much more rewarding.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
241
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Posted - 2014.04.25 13:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
Honestly the meta on lvl 4s has changed a lot recently due to CCP's various upgrades etc. . . In particular the MJD has trivialized many missions. Go to eve survival and research the missions. Frequently, you will find these days that you simply dont need a whole lot of anything to complete the missions. Of course there are some that require decent tank and dps, but for someone just starting out in lvl 4s - just decline those missions until your training brings you to the point where you feel comfortable doing them. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
34
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Posted - 2014.05.18 09:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Honestly the meta on lvl 4s has changed a lot recently due to CCP's various upgrades etc. . . In particular the MJD has trivialized many missions. Go to eve survival and research the missions. Frequently, you will find these days that you simply dont need a whole lot of anything to complete the missions. Of course there are some that require decent tank and dps, but for someone just starting out in lvl 4s - just decline those missions until your training brings you to the point where you feel comfortable doing them.
Yeah, I see that now that I've been running level 4s. I'm finding that my main problem is not tank, but DPS. Most missions so far have been pretty straightforward. MJD to a safe distance, unleash the sentry bots, start shooting. But occasionally these elite Bship rats take quite awhile to tear down. I haven't run into anything yet that was overwhelming, as long as I stayed on the ball and used the MJD strategically. But some of these missions are taking a looooong time.
Mostly this seems to be because my skills are still catching up. I've been spending so much time on supporting skills and tank. Now that I've been at it for a little bit, it seems like I woulda been better off starting with damage.
Oh well, live and learn.
"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."-á - Usagi Yojimbo |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
1031
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 10:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jockari Morden wrote:Before this summer, don't try L4 without T2 sentries because it takes forever to complete the mission, not mentionning the travel time in a BS.
I did a dozen L4 with T1 sentries (on this char when it was at ~8M sp) while finishing training for T2 and basically lost my time compared to storming L3 in my Ishtar (T1 sentries are fine for L3)
Now with T2 sentries and better drone skills doing L4 starts to be much more rewarding.
a lot of people talking about needing T2 sentry. Faction sentry are awesome (don't lose them though.) i did all the 4's in a drake was easy but slow. I have a few chars and many of them need rep for various reasons. I run missions in various ships for variety. It is kinda fun having a ship that won't run a mission and then refitting until it will. Yesterday my market alt had to refit from shield to armour and arty to autocannons and add a afterburner to survive and kill a mission in a hurricane. (had to inject and train repair systems to manage this lol. It might not be a good use of my time from an isk/hr point of view but it does help my pvp to know about how different ships fit and fly. Fit an extra repper on your prophecy and a cap booster and give them a whirl. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5305
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 10:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:Mostly this seems to be because my skills are still catching up. I've been spending so much time on supporting skills and tank. Now that I've been at it for a little bit, it seems like I woulda been better off starting with damage.
Yup, once you can get into a Dominix with MJD, the only skills you need to worry about are the ones that add drone damage, the ones that let you use the Drone Damage Amplifier lowslow modules, the Omnidirectional Tracking Link mid slot, and the Drone Link Augmentor highslot module.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 17:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yeah, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have gone straight for Sentry IIs, and their supporting modules first. Hull upgrades 5 in order to get T2 tank modules was....I won't say a waste of time, but definitely something that could have been put off until later. I fell like I could have easily gotten away with meta 4 tank mods due to the MJD. "What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."-á - Usagi Yojimbo |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
552
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Harbonah wrote:
Oh and you better have all your compensation skills maxed for either shields or armor.
Uh, what? Shield comp skills are just this side of worthless, shield amps are pretty niche and not that commonly used, except for the EM one. Armor are alright, but for missions it's generally easy enough to just use active hardeners.
You could trivially get by without compensations trained at all. |
Flharfh Lhar
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.05.19 02:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
You absolutely don't need T2 weapons, that's ridiculous. Meta 4 are fine. I do recommend a T2 tank, not that you absolutely *need* it, but because it will provide a larger margin of error for a newer player. The rewards for level 4s are so much greater than level 3s that it's worth taking a little risk. Insure your ship and be careful, make sure you read the eve-survival page for each mission before you do it so you know which type of hardener to fit and what the triggers are. |
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
34
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Flharfh Lhar wrote:You absolutely don't need T2 weapons, that's ridiculous. Meta 4 are fine. I do recommend a T2 tank,....
No...see, that's what people kept telling me, but I'm really not seeing the need for it. It seems like being aware and reading the EVE survival guide is plenty fine with a MJD, unless there's some crazy mission out there that insta-pops you the moment you warp in? And if there is, then I would just decline the mission and go on to the next.
Don't get me wrong! Having good tank is never bad. But it just appears to me that the opposite is a much better approach. Get the DPS so the missions go faster, then let the tank catch up as you go. Maybe I'm slightly ahead of the learning curve for new pilots to level 4 or something, I don't know. "What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."-á - Usagi Yojimbo |
Dilligafmofo
The Generic Pirate Corporation Shadow Cartel
236
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
I started soloing lvl 4 missions with 2m skill points back in the days before decent mission reports were avaiable.
Kill the frigs first and ever be afraid to warp out if you need to.
Lvl 4's can be done using T1 weapons. Ensure your tank is up to the job. Once you become more familiar with the missions you ca strt to reduce yor tank and up the damage application.
Good luck |
Mortlake
115
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Harbonah wrote:
Oh and you better have all your compensation skills maxed for either shields or armor.
Not true. Comps at 4 is perfectly acceptable initially, as are Meta 4 guns. As the poster above has stated, once you settle in and feel that your tank is coping, switch to damage application as your primary focus for skilling as by this time you'll be thinking more about the speed you can complete missions in to maximise your isk/hr rather than surviving. |
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Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
34
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Posted - 2014.05.25 16:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Just wanted to make a new post here because I've been getting a lot of in-game emails from people. Everyone keeps telling me to slow down and to not risk running a BS until my skills build up more.
I'm currently sitting on just over 3m SP(a lot of which has nothing to do with combat). I'm running level 4 missions more or less constantly. I've cleared even the 'difficult' level 4 missions such as Dread Pirate Scarlet with very little difficulty. The combination of extra long-range sentry drones and rails with a MJD almost feels like cheating to me. Yes, in some cases I've had to warp out then back in again as I was learning how much punishment a BS can take, but never was I in a position where I felt in danger of losing my ship.
I honestly believe that everyone who told me to wait until my skills reached T2 modules is being overly cautious. Maybe that's a good caution for most people. And it almost certainly would speed mission clearing times up. But by paying attention and reading the EVE survival guides and intelligently using the MJD, I could have been doing level 4 missions with all meta 4 equipment and a set of faction sentry drones.
I'm not saying that they're wrong, but between the extreme range of sentry drones and the ability to use a MJD to stay at that range indefinitely, and the foreknowledge granted by EVE survival, the danger of even the most difficult level 4 missions is almost nullified.
If I had to do it again, I'd have made sure my supporting skills are all at level 3-4, practiced a bit in level 3s to get used to how a BS flies, then did a few level 4s VERY slowly to grow accustomed to what I could handle. Read EVE survival, make liberal use of the MJD, kill frigates first, and let my skills catch up as I continued clearing more lvl 4s. It didn't take me that long to recoup the cost of the BS, so even if it pops at this point, I can jump right back in.
So to me, the 'risk' is well worth the added time spent doing level 4s instead of mucking around in level 3s. I wish I'd known better, coulda saved me some time. Oh well. "What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."-á - Usagi Yojimbo |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2959
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Posted - 2014.05.26 00:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
The reason we gave you that advice is that most of us started before the Microjump Drive, which really does make L4s a lot safer.
My advice to a newbie would still be the following training order (assuming you want a Dominix):
- Fitting skills to 5 (Advanced Weapon Upgrades to 3) - Capacitor skills to 4 - Tech 2 armor tank - Faction sentry drones, one short range (Federation Navy Garde) one long range (Republic Fleet Bouncer), Sentry Drone Interfacing 3 - Drone Interfacing 3 (would have been 4 but the skill is changing in Kronos and net performance at DI 3 is equal to present DI 4) - Large Hybrid Turrets 3 and prereqs - Gallente Battleship 3 - MJD skill to 1
That allows more mistakes than the approach I take when I run missions (which I do more than most pirate types, as I keep very good standings with factions and NPC corps whose stations I trade in). Because I'm pretty much always legal to attack in highsec (due to relatively affordable public killrights from past clients of my ganking services), I personally run in an Ishtar with a two-module/three rig tank and a microwarpdrive, with every other slot dedicated to damage, damage application, and PVP utility. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
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