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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1406
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 09:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Hi, you must be new here. My name is Carmen, and I'm here to teach you the basics of EVE online. As in real life, there are very few fair fights. If you want fair fights, just about any game besides EVE will do. People are really excited about Star Citizen, maybe you should check it out? With any luck, it won't have warfare links. You are right, links are game-breaking. As in, the team with links will break you if you don't have links. Get your own links. The problem is that this is true of many other eve mechanics. A team with ECM beats a team without ECM. A team with logi beats a team without logi. The outcome of most fights are determined before any ships land on grid. This is the great secret of EVE that no one seems to get. It's 90% planning, 10% execution. If you want a game where it's all about execution, go play BF or CoD as I suggested earlier. EVE is a cerebral game where planning and scheming pays off far more than what you do in the heat of the battle. It's been like this since 2003.
Hi there. u mustn't be able to read...dnt worry. im here to help, and ill point out ur failures to u so u can try again.
'i have trained an alt. JUST FOR BOOSTING. woo!'
A team with ECM and links has to be on the field to work. An alt tabbed links booster is 100% effective. Alt tabbing between logi/ECM and ur combat char is much more difficult. There is also no leveling of the playing field with links. Large groups can bring command alts just as much as solo players and small gangs.
Links mechanics are completely different to logi and ecm. Now that u have learned that, would u like to try again? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
dexter xio
TURN LEFT
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 12:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
Phaade wrote:You forget to use your brain?
/irony Dexter xio - That cool guy |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
348
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 14:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
...this Topic... again... Support Comet Mining! |
Vadeim Rizen
TYR. Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 15:37:00 -
[64] - Quote
More rage about links, huh? Train your own links or quit complaining.
Every person in eve has the equal ability to train a link alt. I've spent time and isk on 2 different alts training for leadership skills, and at any given time between my pvp ship and pod, and one of my link pod and ship, will have bare minimum 2 bill invested into a fight. I very rarely use both link alts at the sime time.
The fact that you are too lazy to train your own link alt or fly with someone who has a link alt does not mean links should be 'fixed.' They've already been nerfed enough. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3902
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 15:43:00 -
[65] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote: Hi, you must be new here. My name is Carmen, and I'm here to teach you the basics of EVE online.
As in real life, there are very few fair fights. If you want fair fights, just about any game besides EVE will do. People are really excited about Star Citizen, maybe you should check it out? With any luck, it won't have warfare links.
You are right, links are game-breaking. As in, the team with links will break you if you don't have links. Get your own links.
The problem is that this is true of many other eve mechanics. A team with ECM beats a team without ECM. A team with logi beats a team without logi. The outcome of most fights are determined before any ships land on grid. This is the great secret of EVE that no one seems to get. It's 90% planning, 10% execution. If you want a game where it's all about execution, go play BF or CoD as I suggested earlier. EVE is a cerebral game where planning and scheming pays off far more than what you do in the heat of the battle. It's been like this since 2003.
You obviously have a lot to learn:
ECM is not game breaking. There are many ways to deal with ECM when you do not: Damps to break ECM ship's range, DPS to destroy the fragile ECM ships, ECCM to make yourself very difficult to jam, etc.
What are the counter to links? Scan down and blap the link ship, which is NOT something you can typically do in the middle of a fight.
Logi is not game breaking. There are many ways to deal with logi when you do not: Alpha your targets, so logi cannot rep them. Neut out the logi so they can't apply reps. Jam and/or Damp logi to limit their ability to rep targets. And of course, destroy the logi ships.
What are the counters to links? Scan down and blap the link ship, which is NOT something you can typically do in the middle of a fight.
Links are game breaking, and off grid boosters are the epitome of terrible game mechanics.
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
448
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 15:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
How about bonus from links is dependent on fleet size? diminishing returns after ten for every ten that joins?
or
Wing and Fleet Command positions require command ships to be used, squads gain bonuses from wing and fleet boosters but no links at squad level and below.
Or, squad com can have one link applied, if more then one link is activated (on the squad com) , it randomly selects which one is applied.
Or add a dessy level single link roam command ship that has a 1.5% bonus to the link which can be used at squad level
If you are gonna shake things up, shake them up. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Vadeim Rizen
TYR. Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: What are the counter to links? Scan down and blap the link ship, which is NOT something you can typically do in the middle of a fight.
Using your own links, or not taking a fight if you feel you cant win the fight. |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
191
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote: Using your own links, or not taking a fight if you feel you cant win the fight.
Bingo. Warfare Links are only detrimental to those who seek the fight first and victory afterwards.
Don't engage those who are more prepared than you. Doing so is the first mark of irresponsibility. The second is deferring the blame, claiming in a public space that it's anyone else's fault but yours. QCATS is Recruiting: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3902
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: What are the counter to links? Scan down and blap the link ship, which is NOT something you can typically do in the middle of a fight.
Using your own links, or not taking a fight if you feel you cant win the fight.
You make my point for me. They don't encourage any interesting game play. They are unbalanced, and the main counter to links is to bring your own links. If you truly think that balances them, you have a very twisted notion of balance.
To repeat myself:
Quote:Each warfare link has a power level similar to an entire pirate implant set or standard combat booster.
Example: Snake Implants 1-6 give a 24% boost to speed to ONE SHIP. Rapid deployment gives a 30% boost to EVERY MEMBER OF THE FLEET.
Furthermore, with your pirate implant set, you are limited to one major set of boosts. With links, you can have boosts akin to a Snake Set, a Crystal Set, a Halo set, and more, simultaneously, provided to every member of your fleet.
Frankly, links are way out of balance with the rest of EvE's mechanics. This is irrefutable to anyone that actually looks at the numbers. Paying for a second account does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Months of skill training does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Allowing everyone to bring their own links does not justify an overpowered mechanic. They don't encourage teamwork, they don't balance anything. We understand why people like them. People will decline a fight when there is a Falcon on grid, or a logistics ship on grid, but hide the link ship in some far off hard-to-access area, and people will underestimate your combat ability and give you a fight. That doesn't justify leaving links overpowered.
Links are broken in their current form. They need to: GÖª Be brought on grid, GÖª Be nerfed in Magnitude (5-10% boosts rather than 30-35% boosts), or GÖª Have direct counters: Link Disruptor Deployables.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1043
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Hi, you must be new here. My name is Carmen, and I'm here to teach you the basics of EVE online. As in real life, there are very few fair fights. If you want fair fights, just about any game besides EVE will do. People are really excited about Star Citizen, maybe you should check it out? With any luck, it won't have warfare links. You are right, links are game-breaking. As in, the team with links will break you if you don't have links. Get your own links. The problem is that this is true of many other eve mechanics. A team with ECM beats a team without ECM. A team with logi beats a team without logi. The outcome of most fights are determined before any ships land on grid. This is the great secret of EVE that no one seems to get. It's 90% planning, 10% execution. If you want a game where it's all about execution, go play BF or CoD as I suggested earlier. EVE is a cerebral game where planning and scheming pays off far more than what you do in the heat of the battle. It's been like this since 2003.
Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.
The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made. |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3902
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:53:00 -
[71] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.
The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made.
A very nice consequence of bringing links on grid is they have to also fit for a combat environment then. 6-Link t3's usually sacrifice too much fitting to be viable on grid, but a 1 or 2 link t3 can be combat viable while fielding links. This reduces the stacking of links, which will go quite far in bringing their current bonus levels inline.
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Vadeim Rizen
TYR. Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:59:00 -
[72] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.
The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made.
A very nice consequence of bringing links on grid is they have to also fit for a combat environment then. 6-Link t3's usually sacrifice too much fitting to be viable on grid, but a 1 or 2 link t3 can be combat viable while fielding links. This reduces the stacking of links, which will go quite far in bringing their current bonus levels inline.
This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3902
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.
The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made.
A very nice consequence of bringing links on grid is they have to also fit for a combat environment then. 6-Link t3's usually sacrifice too much fitting to be viable on grid, but a 1 or 2 link t3 can be combat viable while fielding links. This reduces the stacking of links, which will go quite far in bringing their current bonus levels inline. This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3.
6-Link Tengu: Nullified and Covert.
[Tengu, ATX Tough Links] Caldari Navy Co-Processor Caldari Navy Co-Processor Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation II Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1407
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:08:00 -
[74] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.
The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made.
A very nice consequence of bringing links on grid is they have to also fit for a combat environment then. 6-Link t3's usually sacrifice too much fitting to be viable on grid, but a 1 or 2 link t3 can be combat viable while fielding links. This reduces the stacking of links, which will go quite far in bringing their current bonus levels inline. This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3.
WOW EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
448
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote: This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3.
um. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1407
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:14:00 -
[76] - Quote
and i like how everyone says the answer to enemies with links is bring ur own links. that always makes for interesting and dynamic game play...oh wait. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Vadeim Rizen
TYR. Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
I stand corrected, but nobody would fly that fit solo because it would get probed out with a single cycle. as your fit is titled, tourney links dont much matter for getting probed out but i dont know anyone who would use that roaming. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3902
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:I stand corrected, but nobody would fly that fit solo because it would get probed out with a single cycle. as your fit is titled, tourney links dont much matter for getting probed out but i dont know anyone who would use that roaming.
As for the title, it is irrelevant to the fit. I just stripped the first fit in front of me and created a 6-link t3 to correct your false assumption.
Why would they use this fit? Before links were forced out of POS FFs, these were extremely common in FW, and are still used today. Why are they used today? Maybe they feel their deep safes will keep them safe. Maybe they have a Deathstar POS to orbit in shelter. Maybe they aren't worried about being probed out, as they stay cloaked until they are needed. Maybe they are a highsec alt and boosting friends in a war. We both know people min/max in this game, and this is just an example players will go to.
Also, you show your ignorance when you claim someone is "soloing" with links. There is NO SUCH THING as soloing with links. This is a contradiction, and no different than saying I'm soloing with logistics (except links are more potent, less obvious, and uncounterable).
Links, in their current state, are overpowered.
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Vadeim Rizen
TYR. Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
I can agree with some of what you're saying, just not all of it. I agree that links in a 1v1 format are overpowered. if a person agrees to 1v1 then links should be obsolete. I think something that would solve that is in a duel links become innefective for the players that are involved in the duel. However my style of gameplay is to never assume anyone is solo whether it be they have links or have a cloaky falcon or have friends waiting on the other side.... having links enables you to still take a fight even if outnumbered. If someone is hiding their links away at a pos you can try to get the fight on the other side of the gate. There are things you can do.
I think I would actually like the idea of if there is a dual offered/accepted then links become innefective for the duration of the duel. But to roam around and fight assuming somebody doesn't have links is exactly like assuming someone doens't have cloaky help or a buddy in system ready to come in for a gank. Just because you dont like links or dont have a link alt doesn't mean that the game play should change based on your preference.
A change like that would satisfy both parties IMO. People who want true 1v1 fights get theirs, people who understand that nothing in eve is fair and want a chance to still be able to take a fight even when outnumbered can still have their links. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
642
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mobile Telemetry Disruptor, shuts off all link boost effects within its AoE.
You flying inside AoE? You no get links.
Fozzie, make it happen. Plz. :) GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1201
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
A kill from last month had this:
[Tengu, Tengu] Gravimetric Firewall Brynn's Modified Co-Processor Cormack's Modified Co-Processor Thon's Modified Co-Processor
Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I Command Processor I
Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority II Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation II Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
IIRC he forgot to cloak off a gate. I've got two links pilots and links are hugely overpowered whether they're on grid or off. |
Vadeim Rizen
TYR. Exodus.
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
that seems painfully expensive for a link boat =/ |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
397
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:that seems painfully expensive for a link boat =/ Unless you do something stupid (like forget to cloak off gate, or something) you almost never lose them. People get spendy.
Again, comes back to risk vs reward which OGB's break. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1407
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Mobile Telemetry Disruptor, shuts off all link boost effects within its AoE.
You flying inside AoE? You no get links.
Fozzie, make it happen. Plz. :)
if the AoE is system wide, then cool. lol.
@vadeim
my issue with links is the mechanic, affecting the stats of other ships by ur mere presence in system, is just plain bad. The booster does not even have to fly their ship. They can be afk or alt-tabbed and still fully effective. Where drone assist was altered because it promoted minimal input from players, alt boosting is another mechanic that requires minimal input from a player.
The counter to boosters is 'bring ur own booster', which i do, but as far as mechanics go, thats horrible. Compare it to counters to logi being 'alpha' fleets or a counter to ECM being drones. Not bring more logi, nor bring more ECM.
The min/max behavior of players and the way this works, u either choose to boost or fight, but rarely is it worth it to have a ship both boosting and in combat.
Putting links on grid will be a massive improvement, but i'd still prefer the command pilot to do more than 'push button-receive EHP boost and mad reps'. And if links cant be put on grid, i'd rather they just be taken out the game. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1407
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:42:00 -
[85] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:that seems painfully expensive for a link boat =/
imagine it in hi-sec bro.
we had neutrals suicide gank our enemies command boosts. wasnt as blingy as that though EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1043
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 20:12:00 -
[86] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:I can agree with some of what you're saying, just not all of it. I agree that links in a 1v1 format are overpowered. if a person agrees to 1v1 then links should be obsolete. I think something that would solve that is in a duel links become innefective for the players that are involved in the duel. However my style of gameplay is to never assume anyone is solo whether it be they have links or have a cloaky falcon or have friends waiting on the other side.... having links enables you to still take a fight even if outnumbered. If someone is hiding their links away at a pos you can try to get the fight on the other side of the gate. There are things you can do.
I think I would actually like the idea of if there is a dual offered/accepted then links become innefective for the duration of the duel. But to roam around and fight assuming somebody doesn't have links is exactly like assuming someone doens't have cloaky help or a buddy in system ready to come in for a gank. Just because you dont like links or dont have a link alt doesn't mean that the game play should change based on your preference.
A change like that would satisfy both parties IMO. People who want true 1v1 fights get theirs, people who understand that nothing in eve is fair and want a chance to still be able to take a fight even when outnumbered can still have their links.
The only real issue is the fact an AFK player can be a game changer in a fight. The only "power" I am willing to give afk player is the fear they might not be AFK. Anybody in local can jump in a fight to change it's course. The guy you see in local could cyno stuff on you, he could warp to the fight and throw his grain of salt in it but all of that require any ship to get on grid. The cyno'd ships even if they can be brough in off grid still ahve to get on grid before they have a real effect on the fight, they guy also can't EWAR/REP/shoot from off grid, he has to get in.
The link ship is completely effective without the ship being on the line. That's where the mechanic is wrong. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
293
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 20:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP have already said links are slated to be moved on grid.... The Law is a point of View |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1204
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 00:29:00 -
[88] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules: 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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